Well—it works!
Only had about 10 minutes at low volume just now before kiddo bedtime—sounded freaking fantastic (Art Pepper)—insanely quiet with the battery power. (Guess I wired up the SUTs correctly too, ha! ;-). More listening tomorrow. Also heard back from Pete about the DC offset. He confirmed the okay-to-go having connected SUT/cart and zeroed. Mentioned something about perhaps him forgetting that he zeroed with inputs shorted. Haha. Also he said that it's possible that the AD797s he used had much lower input offsets than the parts I obtained—he indicated they can vary wildly. Success regardless. I can't see a scenario where I'd be powering up w/o a cart or SUTs attached... and DC would get a blockade at M2X...but to be avoided for certain.
More later. (Obviously have to finish the chassis too.)
Only had about 10 minutes at low volume just now before kiddo bedtime—sounded freaking fantastic (Art Pepper)—insanely quiet with the battery power. (Guess I wired up the SUTs correctly too, ha! ;-). More listening tomorrow. Also heard back from Pete about the DC offset. He confirmed the okay-to-go having connected SUT/cart and zeroed. Mentioned something about perhaps him forgetting that he zeroed with inputs shorted. Haha. Also he said that it's possible that the AD797s he used had much lower input offsets than the parts I obtained—he indicated they can vary wildly. Success regardless. I can't see a scenario where I'd be powering up w/o a cart or SUTs attached... and DC would get a blockade at M2X...but to be avoided for certain.
More later. (Obviously have to finish the chassis too.)
Attachments
I built one of Petes LR Phonostages and it is very good. At the start with the standard power supply I had an "ocean noise" that turned out to simply be power supply noise that is amplified by the phonostage and heard at my speakers. To get rid of this noise I built a LiFePO4 battery power supply which did the trick...complete silence through my 110dB/w/m horns and very good sound.
Better sound than other phonos here including the Salas FSP.
Better sound than other phonos here including the Salas FSP.
@BRN thanks!! Labors of love I suppose...
@acg I will be able to compare LR phono with FSP/SUT and all other factors equal. Also with UltraFSP (highly recommended). Are you running MM or MC out of curiosity? There was some interest on the FSP thread from people curious about UltraFSP configured for MC vs. FSP configured for MM with SUT.
@acg I will be able to compare LR phono with FSP/SUT and all other factors equal. Also with UltraFSP (highly recommended). Are you running MM or MC out of curiosity? There was some interest on the FSP thread from people curious about UltraFSP configured for MC vs. FSP configured for MM with SUT.
Pete's LR phono is REALLY good. I'd recommend this build to anyone. I'll know more when I shift back to Ultra FSP later... also not using the same cart though... so not A/B yet. AT33PTG/II with LR phono via Cinemag 1254 (1:10)...I'm pretty inspired to build another head amp with some Lundahls per @acg just to hear what differences there may be. I'll also try the LR phono/SUT with the HanaML that's on my 12" arm currently connected to UltraFSP. I love both of these carts, and might give the edge to the Hana, but barely. Something really nice about the AT (awesome value). I'd routinely switch them randomly before the 2 arm plinth... So GOOD!
So which Lundahls? Not to derail this from the LR phono. BUILD IT!
So which Lundahls? Not to derail this from the LR phono. BUILD IT!
But what does "REALLY good" mean to you though? Quality judgements are pretty meaningness, unless backed up with an explanation of what qualities are important to you, as others will differ considerably.
Personally I'd want a good high-order rumble filter and battery power as an option, and see little merit in using inductors as they simply aren't needed (and bring a variety of problems, not the least of which is availability).
If you're enthusiatic for a design, extoll its virtues by name and value so comparisons can be made... This one I see as interesting, but not my thing, I mainly wonder about its rationale and whether I agree or not.
Personally I'd want a good high-order rumble filter and battery power as an option, and see little merit in using inductors as they simply aren't needed (and bring a variety of problems, not the least of which is availability).
If you're enthusiatic for a design, extoll its virtues by name and value so comparisons can be made... This one I see as interesting, but not my thing, I mainly wonder about its rationale and whether I agree or not.
Your comments become annoying Mark.
Apparently you don't take the effort to take a look at Pete's site.
You already overlooked the rumble filter, and now you "want battery power as option"...
Well, it's all there, but you seem to know it all...
Using inductors...read Pete's lecture.
Phono stages with inductors (LCR or LR) have their fans you know; that you think they're not needed...what should that mean to us (to quote you...).
I suggest you to select your preferred opamp, download the application data sheet, and build something like that....should be good enough for you.
Apparently you don't take the effort to take a look at Pete's site.
You already overlooked the rumble filter, and now you "want battery power as option"...
Well, it's all there, but you seem to know it all...
Using inductors...read Pete's lecture.
Phono stages with inductors (LCR or LR) have their fans you know; that you think they're not needed...what should that mean to us (to quote you...).
I suggest you to select your preferred opamp, download the application data sheet, and build something like that....should be good enough for you.
I'll bite. I think I've been pretty clear thus far about the meaninglessness of written audio qualities. I claim only my own opinion. I built Pete's pre because I ignorantly like his projects—and it was recommended to me by a friend—who's system I've heard—and who's name is common on this forum—who's opinion I trust as well heard and well researched—and it was easy to make it battery powered—which has been on my "try for audio" list related to turntables. (One thing I learned is how bloody quiet Salas's Ultra is, LR phono is perfectly silent though. On battery. Def gonna try plugging it into the wall too...)
What follows is personal opinion and completely subjective:
I could wax poetic like the best of the audio afficionados out there, word smithery is fun. What exactly would that accomplish? Other than an attempt to move forward, by inspiration, someone else's audio journey (a valid pursuit by the way)—the purpose of my previous post—though succinct. I'm not qualified to evaluate Pete's specific audio design choices—any more than Pete may be qualified to shoot a top level advertising image for a major brand (one of the things I do for a living). We all don't hesitate to say a thing is "bad" or "good" however...I try not to do that without having my own reality based hands on experience...and even then...it can be a lie.
What I don't know, I don't know. Apparently in this case, that's good since, I do know what I like when I hear it—and I've spent A LOT of time building audio components to educate my preferences. Lots of amps (8?), lots of preamps (5?), a few turntables (4?), several guitar amps too (4). I like tubes, I like solid state. I hold no highfalutin opinions that say one thing is better than the other—inductor? Don't really care what the rules are or what the charts say. I'm not concerned with possible, not limited by correct-ness. I just know what I know. (what I THINK I know.) Subject to revision at any time with new input. I have blown my mind several times in this journey—and had to fight to stay in my body at times when something is playing on the turntable. That's a cool experience—that seems to have no end—just like all the things I've come across in this universe that I'm inspired to pursue.
Build the amp—don't build the amp. I don't care. BUT. I have heard it in my system, compared to all the other pieces I've decided to make—have you heard Pete's contribution in your system?
My audio quest has been largely in pursuit of making quiet gear—and projects that have enough "going on" to make them doable by me (I'm fine to get boards made and really figure stuff out, with help—check out the His Masters Noise thread—speaking of phono pres). Poetically what I'm after on all fronts—not just audio—is "grace, balance, air, levity, power, detail, intricacy, faith, weight, soul, etc, etc, etc,". I could go on. Doesn't matter if it's audio, motorcycles, painting, photography, hunting, marriage, woodworking.....parenting.
Here's a few things I think I know about audio, to date FOR ME:
—quiet gear is more music than noise (Bonsai drops gold on this topic, he's got a new phono pre out, btw)
—Try everything that inspires you
—If you have an intuition, do that.
—I haven't found a way to have the DAC sound better TO ME than the vinyl playback (working on a DAC project, the only thing I haven't built myself in my system)—this point though I have tried on many unsuspecting listeners—playing the same track on hi-res and turntable without them knowing—without question, all prefer the vinyl. That is really interesting to me.
—Direct drive turntables have something that other methods of spinning a platter do not (bold, but true to date from what I've heard myself)
—the 2 biggest factors that make/made the largest differences in my vinyl centric system are the cart and the speakers.
—MC has something that MM seems to not (super controversial, and totally not a line in some sand, and bears more discovery and play) Less is literally more?
—The room matters.
—Iron in the signal path seems to be something I like.
—Volume controls and their design and "quality" in the signal path seems to matter (Muses, is worth the effort)
—Nelson Pass is a gift—as is Mark Johnson, Pete Millett, Jim Tiemann, Jason Donald—and a lot of other people here on this forum hunting for happiness (which is the quality that ultimately every human on the planet is looking for and responding to). Thing is... it's available anytime, help yourself.
@Mark Tillotson: It seems you have a phono pre in the works? I'll happily check it out—send me some boards—I'll pay—and throw it in the mix without judgement other than my opinion about how it sounds in my system.
What follows is personal opinion and completely subjective:
I could wax poetic like the best of the audio afficionados out there, word smithery is fun. What exactly would that accomplish? Other than an attempt to move forward, by inspiration, someone else's audio journey (a valid pursuit by the way)—the purpose of my previous post—though succinct. I'm not qualified to evaluate Pete's specific audio design choices—any more than Pete may be qualified to shoot a top level advertising image for a major brand (one of the things I do for a living). We all don't hesitate to say a thing is "bad" or "good" however...I try not to do that without having my own reality based hands on experience...and even then...it can be a lie.
What I don't know, I don't know. Apparently in this case, that's good since, I do know what I like when I hear it—and I've spent A LOT of time building audio components to educate my preferences. Lots of amps (8?), lots of preamps (5?), a few turntables (4?), several guitar amps too (4). I like tubes, I like solid state. I hold no highfalutin opinions that say one thing is better than the other—inductor? Don't really care what the rules are or what the charts say. I'm not concerned with possible, not limited by correct-ness. I just know what I know. (what I THINK I know.) Subject to revision at any time with new input. I have blown my mind several times in this journey—and had to fight to stay in my body at times when something is playing on the turntable. That's a cool experience—that seems to have no end—just like all the things I've come across in this universe that I'm inspired to pursue.
Build the amp—don't build the amp. I don't care. BUT. I have heard it in my system, compared to all the other pieces I've decided to make—have you heard Pete's contribution in your system?
My audio quest has been largely in pursuit of making quiet gear—and projects that have enough "going on" to make them doable by me (I'm fine to get boards made and really figure stuff out, with help—check out the His Masters Noise thread—speaking of phono pres). Poetically what I'm after on all fronts—not just audio—is "grace, balance, air, levity, power, detail, intricacy, faith, weight, soul, etc, etc, etc,". I could go on. Doesn't matter if it's audio, motorcycles, painting, photography, hunting, marriage, woodworking.....parenting.
Here's a few things I think I know about audio, to date FOR ME:
—quiet gear is more music than noise (Bonsai drops gold on this topic, he's got a new phono pre out, btw)
—Try everything that inspires you
—If you have an intuition, do that.
—I haven't found a way to have the DAC sound better TO ME than the vinyl playback (working on a DAC project, the only thing I haven't built myself in my system)—this point though I have tried on many unsuspecting listeners—playing the same track on hi-res and turntable without them knowing—without question, all prefer the vinyl. That is really interesting to me.
—Direct drive turntables have something that other methods of spinning a platter do not (bold, but true to date from what I've heard myself)
—the 2 biggest factors that make/made the largest differences in my vinyl centric system are the cart and the speakers.
—MC has something that MM seems to not (super controversial, and totally not a line in some sand, and bears more discovery and play) Less is literally more?
—The room matters.
—Iron in the signal path seems to be something I like.
—Volume controls and their design and "quality" in the signal path seems to matter (Muses, is worth the effort)
—Nelson Pass is a gift—as is Mark Johnson, Pete Millett, Jim Tiemann, Jason Donald—and a lot of other people here on this forum hunting for happiness (which is the quality that ultimately every human on the planet is looking for and responding to). Thing is... it's available anytime, help yourself.
@Mark Tillotson: It seems you have a phono pre in the works? I'll happily check it out—send me some boards—I'll pay—and throw it in the mix without judgement other than my opinion about how it sounds in my system.
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I've documented two different MM phono preamps on this site already, both with novel features, one is 8mm x 95mm weighing 3g, and the other is a set of modules. They are not in kit form though, I wouldn't expect others to have the same niche requirements/wish list as me, but I can provide more details/files to those interested.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/297456-post-analogue-source-pics-8.html#post5925250
Modular phono preamp
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/297456-post-analogue-source-pics-8.html#post5925250
Modular phono preamp
Wow,
I guess I never saw this thread take off.
Pfarrell thank you for your input.
This is back on my radar for sure.
I guess I never saw this thread take off.
Pfarrell thank you for your input.
This is back on my radar for sure.
I've no idea why I haven't seen this thread, but anyway...
The LR phono is fantastic! I power mine with a Silent Switcher. It sounds incredible, and is the quietest phonostage I've ever heard.
A wonderful project, I can wholeheartedly recommend it, you will absolutely love it, and it's very flexible. It's been in my system constantly since I built it.
The LR phono is fantastic! I power mine with a Silent Switcher. It sounds incredible, and is the quietest phonostage I've ever heard.
A wonderful project, I can wholeheartedly recommend it, you will absolutely love it, and it's very flexible. It's been in my system constantly since I built it.
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I echo the strong recommendation! One of my favorites. Pete has just made a slightly new version. Same basic circuit but uses Lundahl inductors instead of Cinemag. I have the inductors and parts but haven't built it yet. I believe Pete is selling the inductors directly but check with him.
This doesn't appear to be on Pete's website! Do you have more info? I have two head amps for MC one Cinemag SUTs, one Lundahl—they are different flavors for sure, maybe due to material differences? Not sure if that means anything for inductors... but...
My battery pack implementation was 100% instigated-started-suggested by 6L6, which, speaking for him, is what he's showing in his images (and in mine, earlier in the thread). Definitely THE way to go—is silly easy to implement with Jan's silent switcher.
I don't have any more information but suggest that you contact Pete directly. He'll be very helpful.
When I get off my duff and build the Lundahl version, I'll write a comparison.
When I get off my duff and build the Lundahl version, I'll write a comparison.
I am also a satisfied user of pmillett LR phono stage. I did use a slightly different BOM
The following component are changes from the recommended BOM
1) Nichicon MUSE for all the power filtering capacitors
2) Talema toroidal power transformer
3) Vishay Z-Foil for R27 and R28
4) UP OCC silver and copper cabling
5) Burson V6 Vivid opamps
I tried both AD797 and Burson V6 Vivid opamps and settled for Burson. AD797 was fatiguing for my headphone setup
The following component are changes from the recommended BOM
1) Nichicon MUSE for all the power filtering capacitors
2) Talema toroidal power transformer
3) Vishay Z-Foil for R27 and R28
4) UP OCC silver and copper cabling
5) Burson V6 Vivid opamps
I tried both AD797 and Burson V6 Vivid opamps and settled for Burson. AD797 was fatiguing for my headphone setup
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I completed my build.
Very pleased with sound quality.
This is my first non tube phono pre in a few decades.
I added a rotary switch with multiple capacitor values for cartridge loading.
Very pleased with sound quality.
This is my first non tube phono pre in a few decades.
I added a rotary switch with multiple capacitor values for cartridge loading.
