Hello,
I was wondering what would be the best way to wire a house to avoid ground loops.
I always got a ground loop over my balanced speaker cables.
Earth >Power Calbe> PC >HDMI> TV >HDMI> AV-Reciever >XLR> Amplifier >Power Cable> Earth
I just added a capcitor to the ground of my PC to mostly get rid of the noise but not 100%.
Or maybe decouple the amplifiers ground somehow?
Now I am thinking of rewiring my house what would be the best way to avoid this.
Seperate Ground connection for the amplifiers?
Also I was wondering, should I use the same phase for all amplifiers or is it better to use different phases?
I was wondering what would be the best way to wire a house to avoid ground loops.
I always got a ground loop over my balanced speaker cables.
Earth >Power Calbe> PC >HDMI> TV >HDMI> AV-Reciever >XLR> Amplifier >Power Cable> Earth
I just added a capcitor to the ground of my PC to mostly get rid of the noise but not 100%.
Or maybe decouple the amplifiers ground somehow?
Now I am thinking of rewiring my house what would be the best way to avoid this.
Seperate Ground connection for the amplifiers?
Also I was wondering, should I use the same phase for all amplifiers or is it better to use different phases?
Balanced interconnects should be immune against ground loops if done properly.
Likely you have the "pin 1 problem".
My suggestions would be to check the connection of pin 1 at each device and ensure that pin 1 of the XLR connector is connected to chassis and not to any audio ground.
Likely you have the "pin 1 problem".
My suggestions would be to check the connection of pin 1 at each device and ensure that pin 1 of the XLR connector is connected to chassis and not to any audio ground.
How is this part done: AV-Reciever >XLR> Amplifier
Is the AV-Reciever output a phono connector?
Brian
Is the AV-Reciever output a phono connector?
Brian
That's accually an error on my side it's not an AV-Reciever, it's a Preamp Marantz AV7703 to be defined and the Amps are Behringer A500s.
XLR Output from the Preamp to XLR Input of the Amps.
XLR Output from the Preamp to XLR Input of the Amps.
And what about the Phases, I have 3~400V here in austria, but I am not quite shure if the field of the transformer with a different phase would disturb each other or cancel interfeerences 😀
I got rid of ground loops like that by using going optical and back to analog.
I also run everything from the same circuit using an extension cord. Cheaper than rewiring 🙂
I also run everything from the same circuit using an extension cord. Cheaper than rewiring 🙂
In austria all houses got at least 400V 25A.
Three times 230V to neutral/ground with 120° phase shift.
In small apartment buildings etc we have a similar system in Canada... 120V/208V. It's the kid brother to 347V/600V which is used in industrial settings. Unlike USA which uses 277V/480V.
In my building, they took the time to do proper split phase from each main feeder phase so I actually have 120V/240V here 🙂
Interesting the difference in the wiring topology - Europe vs North America.
In my building, they took the time to do proper split phase from each main feeder phase so I actually have 120V/240V here 🙂
Interesting the difference in the wiring topology - Europe vs North America.
I don't understand the meaning of 'I always got a ground loop over my balanced speaker cables. '.
Plug all your hi-fi equipment into the same power strip might help.
Rewiring your house might not.
Plug all your hi-fi equipment into the same power strip might help.
Rewiring your house might not.
Rewiring the house is a solution like selling the car because you don't like the rims. Rewiring will not solve issues either.
You probably have more than 1 device with direct connection to PE. That is often the ground loop issue. The computer should have a direct connection to PE so this makes matters more difficult than with a dedicated audio player of sorts. From what you write the amplifier seemingly also has a direct connection to PE. Please investigate if what I write is true. When a cable tuner is used you have 3 PE connections one way or another. As direct connection of Audio GND to PE is internally done in devices ground loops are a consequence.
Solving ground issues is not for everyone. It takes factual information and some patience/experience to solve it. If you could borrow/steal an isolation transformer and use it on the amplifier for testing (and pull the antenna plug of the cable tuner if you have that) you will likely immediately have positive results. This may motivate to solve matters.
You probably have more than 1 device with direct connection to PE. That is often the ground loop issue. The computer should have a direct connection to PE so this makes matters more difficult than with a dedicated audio player of sorts. From what you write the amplifier seemingly also has a direct connection to PE. Please investigate if what I write is true. When a cable tuner is used you have 3 PE connections one way or another. As direct connection of Audio GND to PE is internally done in devices ground loops are a consequence.
Solving ground issues is not for everyone. It takes factual information and some patience/experience to solve it. If you could borrow/steal an isolation transformer and use it on the amplifier for testing (and pull the antenna plug of the cable tuner if you have that) you will likely immediately have positive results. This may motivate to solve matters.
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I don't know what balanced speaker cables are. (active speakers with XLR inputs??)
But, XLR analog balanced interconnect systems don't have 'ground loop' problems. If there is a problem, it's due to poor circuit design (the infamous 'Pin 1 Problem') or a defective cable.
Note that the XLR shield path can connect other analog components that have different chassis potentials.
But, XLR analog balanced interconnect systems don't have 'ground loop' problems. If there is a problem, it's due to poor circuit design (the infamous 'Pin 1 Problem') or a defective cable.
Note that the XLR shield path can connect other analog components that have different chassis potentials.
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All components with AC power Protective Earth/Safety Ground wires should be connected together.
Try using a loop breaker on the ground for your PC. Solved a lot of my problems with HDMI causing loops, it's not a 100% perfect solution but it helps significantly. I was seriously tearing my hair out. I originally used an Ebtech Hum-X, it worked well, however after opening the Ebtech up and seeing that it's just two diodes, I figured that a 35amp bridge is even more rugged. So I put a 35a diode bridge inline on my HTPC's power cable wired up like Rod Elliot's loop breaker example, but did not install a resistor/capacitor. Hopefully I am not doing anything dumb/dangerous.
Correct. Putting a separate ground for the amplifiers is dangerous, and against code. Everything should be grounded to a single point so they all share the same potential. Adding another ground will not "suck" stray current or whatever, the ground is a horrible conductor. This can become a complicated subject, but one thing is for sure; do not add separate grounds. If your chassis is going to a separate ground from the neutral wire, it can become electrified if current finds it's way to it, but cannot get back to neutral. The separate ground will not save you.
Problem is that devices often have Audio GND connected straight to PE. That is the issue. PE should be connected to metal casings etc. but the point is that Audio GND is also very often connected directly to PE. If this is the case with a few devices the direct connection between Audio GND and PE should be "lifted" like with a 10 Ohm 2W resistor except for 1 device which generally is the power amplifier. Metal casings always directly to PE, never change anything there!
Using a pc for audio poses a challenge as these must have a 3 pin IEC cable going to a 3 pin PE wall socket. OP will likely have no hum when disconnecting the pc's IEC cable as well.
Of course a simple test with just 1 source device that has a wall wart PSU and the amplifier is a good test to prove a ground loop is the reason for the hum. Making the setup smaller = understanding.
Using a pc for audio poses a challenge as these must have a 3 pin IEC cable going to a 3 pin PE wall socket. OP will likely have no hum when disconnecting the pc's IEC cable as well.
Of course a simple test with just 1 source device that has a wall wart PSU and the amplifier is a good test to prove a ground loop is the reason for the hum. Making the setup smaller = understanding.
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Understanding grounding in audio This gentlemen does a good job with an in depth explanation of grounding
It's for anyone who wants the information, and he does a pretty good job with the explanation. I'd hate to see someone experience a lightning strike with equipment in their house that does not all have the same potential. Could be exciting. 🙂