just spent more than half an hour reading through this thread,
WOW, lots of work as far as trial and error
Def. post some pics now Shin 😉
WOW, lots of work as far as trial and error
Def. post some pics now Shin 😉
jacklelad said:
OK Jack.
pinkmouse said:
Cheers Al,
I also fancied the Volts but I felt the ATC was almost a no brainer so went with that.
Now that's a bit below the belt!
You know I'm such a ***** for personal opinions swinging my decisions 😀
I may yet keep the Krells, not sold any yet since I can't make my mind up. Should I be worried that I find the PCB's sexy? Did you put some sort of subliminal message in the track layouts?
sqlkev said:
Cheers me old.
I've got them back in bits again 🙄 and just made a start preping the MDF for finishing. I'll keep you all guessing as to whether its veneered, sprayed or mixture of both 😉
So the shots I post will be of the finished thing rather than raw MDF.
See you all here March 2006 for the pics. My speed sucks! 😀
ShinOBIWAN said:
I have a feeling it's gonna be both, prove me wrong
😀
I like the black and white renderings. Something too flashy will probably trick your mind to localize the speakers perhaps?
Now, we don't want that, do we?
sqlkev said:
Yep its going to be more understated this time. The flip thing looked too tacky in a living room. Most folks that saw them half expected some hydraulic rams to start gyrating them up and down whilst cranking out the latest Twista tune. 🙄
ShinOBIWAN said:
OUCH!!!Nice midbass, good to see something is "gel-ing" for that driver/region, (..it hurts though that it took another 500 pounds to get there). With the black midbass driver I think you could start considering real wood veneers (that have dark/black grain effects) if you wanted to.
Unless I'm mistaken that midbass driver in a sealed config. should give you a moderatly punchy dynamic midbass that is every bit as (or more) transparent than the seas excel.
As for a subwoofer, I did manage to find a commercial horizontal array that could be DIY'ed with a low distortion driver like the Beyma LX60:
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/features/604way/index4.html
Not surpisingly it was the best of any they have tested, though perhaps not as fuctional or as cost effective as the best from Velodyne.
As a sub design the horizontal bass array is actually not the best for reduced room effects (the best is a 4 box room-wall midpoint placement), but from a standpoint of low distortion and room-esthetics (..it can be made into a nice table/console) it is the best compromise.
I did a quick modeling of the LX60 with a non-standard/aligned venting (for an active assist a'la ELF) and came up with a single driver and box volume around 3 and a quarter cubic feet with only -9db down at 13 Hz from 40 Hz. Four such driver/box's in a horizontal array series/parallel connected to a substantial amplifier with a high dampening factor should give you the subjective description made here:
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/wilson_xs_sub.htm
ShinOBIWAN said:
actually I would say 95% of what you hear about the LCY 130 is completely true 😉 😉
first hand experience here btw 😉
I don't use ebay normally but something caught my eye the other day and I managed to win them:
Ebay listing here
A pair of 9" ATC PA75-234 STD's for £100. Bargain considering I paid £500 for a pair of 9" SB75-234 SC's only a week ago! The build isn't as substantial though and the magnets are smaller also on these ones I've won on ebay. I guess the reason for that is these are PA range and the ones I have in the perceives are the studio range.
Spec's look nice: 98dB sensitivity, usuable out to 5Khz.
These are not mid/bass drivers since ATC recommend crossing them no lower than 250. So they'd make a nice high sensitivty midrange upto around 2Khz and to avoid beaming I wouldn't use them any higher.
I've got plans for these already 😉
Ebay listing here
A pair of 9" ATC PA75-234 STD's for £100. Bargain considering I paid £500 for a pair of 9" SB75-234 SC's only a week ago! The build isn't as substantial though and the magnets are smaller also on these ones I've won on ebay. I guess the reason for that is these are PA range and the ones I have in the perceives are the studio range.
Spec's look nice: 98dB sensitivity, usuable out to 5Khz.
These are not mid/bass drivers since ATC recommend crossing them no lower than 250. So they'd make a nice high sensitivty midrange upto around 2Khz and to avoid beaming I wouldn't use them any higher.
I've got plans for these already 😉
Pah, so it's your fault I lost...
Actually, I was going to snipe, but lost track of the time! 🙂
Actually, I was going to snipe, but lost track of the time! 🙂
pinkmouse said:
Sorry Al,
I had no idea really! I would'av still arm wrestled you for them anyway 😀
I was lucky because I came in the house from work at ten to five and I thought I'd missed the end but well... your loss is my gain 😀
What were you going to do with them BTW? Spares for the job I assume?
Sort of, a guy I know wants some new far-field monitors for his studio, but on a budget, so new drivers were out of the picture. I have some JBL2240s lined up for the bottom, and these would have made a nice match. Still, I know where there is a pair of PD 10"s I might be able to blag...
I've just had a nosey through your feedback Al.
You sell an aweful lot of virtually new hifi speakers. I was always under the impression you worked with PA, studio and pro gear in an install/repairs capacity? Or is the company you work for diverse?
Sorry to seem nosey but it always strikes me as interesting for the folks who work in audio. Getting to try out and listen to all the stuff.
You sell an aweful lot of virtually new hifi speakers. I was always under the impression you worked with PA, studio and pro gear in an install/repairs capacity? Or is the company you work for diverse?
Sorry to seem nosey but it always strikes me as interesting for the folks who work in audio. Getting to try out and listen to all the stuff.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Well, that's news to me! Are you looking at the real pinkmouse, or some Johny-come-lately who stole my name? 😉
As for my jobs, well, it gets complicated...
I used to work in event/production management, mostly specialising in lighting design, but I had wide experience of audio and video kit as well, including running FOH and Monitors on some quite big rigs.
However, those big, well paid gigs were quite far apart, so I did lots of other stuff for various companies, in fact a true freelance tart. One of the guys I worked for was a really good mate, and sold lots of new and S/H Pro Audio kit, and I used to spend a lot of time servicing, testing and installing kit for him, ( in fact, he even gets a credit in Ben Duncan's amp book).
I also used to work with lots of guys on the road, who all seem to have retired from touring and set up recording and rehersal studios, and quite often I end up making bits and pieces for them, sometimes cabs, sometimes custom racks or furniture.
Because of the way things were going in that field, and getting too old to keep up with the youngsters on the road, I decided to do a degree in design, and set up a business doing custom install work. However to keep me going during the 3 years, I got a P/T job with Kent County Council. But then my course was cancelled, and I am now stuck in a dead end job desperately looking for something else to do, at the moment I only get enough money from the install stuff for pocket money, as the studio industry is very broke at the moment.
C'est la Vie...😉
Found three interesting perspectives on ATC loudspeakers from private individuals:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/ambackissues/atc.htm
I'd imagine I'm hearing something similar since I have the same bass and midrange drivers. XO points are also almost identical to ATC's - not by copying BTW 😉 but from plenty of testing and they were right in those choices because they sound best there.
The only real critisicms, even if slight, seemed to be that of the treble and lower treble. I believe ATC use Seas soft dome treble units, I on the other hand chose the SS R2904-7000. I'm not sure of the impact on the original ATC design but the critisicms about detail in the treble seem wholey unfounded from what I'm hearing with the Scan ring treble.
The rest I'd agree with to some extent. They mentioned the bass was deep but I don't feel any sort of overwhelming feeling of depth here. It is very dynamic and punchy but certainly not deep enough to really give a sense of dramatic scale and that's the speakers weak point really - the lowest bass isn't there. Everything else is, well, pretty much perfect for me.
I've almost completely lost interest in even thinking about another speaker project. Before I got the ATC bass drivers I was making up plans for another attempt at a personal best. Right now it just sound so right to me. With the final addition of the subs I think I might be out of this game! Well maybe the odd small speaker here and there but as for another reference, I think I'm already there and to noticably beat would cost more than I'm willing to spend I feel.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/ambackissues/atc.htm
I'd imagine I'm hearing something similar since I have the same bass and midrange drivers. XO points are also almost identical to ATC's - not by copying BTW 😉 but from plenty of testing and they were right in those choices because they sound best there.
The only real critisicms, even if slight, seemed to be that of the treble and lower treble. I believe ATC use Seas soft dome treble units, I on the other hand chose the SS R2904-7000. I'm not sure of the impact on the original ATC design but the critisicms about detail in the treble seem wholey unfounded from what I'm hearing with the Scan ring treble.
The rest I'd agree with to some extent. They mentioned the bass was deep but I don't feel any sort of overwhelming feeling of depth here. It is very dynamic and punchy but certainly not deep enough to really give a sense of dramatic scale and that's the speakers weak point really - the lowest bass isn't there. Everything else is, well, pretty much perfect for me.
I've almost completely lost interest in even thinking about another speaker project. Before I got the ATC bass drivers I was making up plans for another attempt at a personal best. Right now it just sound so right to me. With the final addition of the subs I think I might be out of this game! Well maybe the odd small speaker here and there but as for another reference, I think I'm already there and to noticably beat would cost more than I'm willing to spend I feel.
I think you and I are in the same boat, Shin.
If you have a perfectionist streak, then any compromises just result in frustration and constant rebuilding. It really is worth it going all out building the best you can and being content with that for a few years at least, with maybe some fine-tuning along the way. Upgrades & rebuilds should only be done if you can make a real improvement or if there are advancements in technology, not just for the sake of change.
Now you can focus on other things like room treatment, amps, surrounds and subwoofers.
I'm gearing up to build some subs soon for that 15-30Hz region, and some surrounds, which will satisfy the bug in me, & which should be relatively cheap & easy in comparison to the mains (thank god).
Some acoustic wall panels would be cool too.
BTW, are you going to make some grills?
Cheers
David
If you have a perfectionist streak, then any compromises just result in frustration and constant rebuilding. It really is worth it going all out building the best you can and being content with that for a few years at least, with maybe some fine-tuning along the way. Upgrades & rebuilds should only be done if you can make a real improvement or if there are advancements in technology, not just for the sake of change.
Now you can focus on other things like room treatment, amps, surrounds and subwoofers.
I'm gearing up to build some subs soon for that 15-30Hz region, and some surrounds, which will satisfy the bug in me, & which should be relatively cheap & easy in comparison to the mains (thank god).
Some acoustic wall panels would be cool too.
BTW, are you going to make some grills?
Cheers
David
Hi Shin,
all you need is right subwoofer . this can work good :
http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm
I am thinking about something similar (because I have plans to build a home in some next years )
all you need is right subwoofer . this can work good :
http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm
I am thinking about something similar (because I have plans to build a home in some next years )
David Gatti said:
Greets David.
I completely agree with that. What I've got now is just about perfect for my tastes. There's better/more expensive speakers out there for sure but the truth is I don't care anymore like I used to. By my very nature I'm a compulsive upgrader, always have been, so its a strange thing indeed to be contronted with. Probably the best word for it is 'contentment' after years of searching for something that seems very right to me. I'd hate to think of all the money I've spent and lost along the way but sitting back and listening to these reveals it was completely worth that effort and cost.
This for me is where the real fun will start too. Building these mains has taken far longer with more problems and changes than I ever anticipated. Its kinda wore me down a little after 8 months of building, 2 scraped cabinets and 3 bass drivers later.
After that I'm just really looking forward to a relaxing build on the bass cabinets, which are going to be nice and simple rectangular affairs. Not dozens of angles that make your head hurt!
Afterward I'd like very much to expand the voicing into a center and surround channels. But I'll have to save for that.
You know I've messed up here, I don't have grills. I'm not about to start drilling the fronts either for the plugs.
Really I should have done something similar to you with the magnets. But its too late for that now. The way I justify it is these are studio monitors and since virtually no monitor has a grill, well what's good for them is good for me. Truth is though its just something I wanted but forgot!
New camera arrived this morning, so I've taken a couple of shots.
I'll take some more shots as I go through with the spray job and finally once they are re-assembled.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'll take some more shots as I go through with the spray job and finally once they are re-assembled.
Also paints arrived today.
I've gone with that black and silver with a high gloss finish. The silver is really intense, its listed as sparkling aluminium and I'm thinking it may be a little too much after taking the lid off for a looksee.
I've decided to tint it slightly to take the edge off the intensity. Something like a black or dark grey tint would work well I feel.
I did consider using some of that chrome paint from Rage Extreme - its normally used on alloys for a mirror finish but swapped out at the last minute as it would look 'cheesy' I thought. It would also be extremely difficult to apply to a satisfactory standard too. High gloss is one thing but a chrome mirror? If it weren't perfect it would look a mess and the cabinets would end up in the bin!
Keeping it simple but effective this time.
I've gone with that black and silver with a high gloss finish. The silver is really intense, its listed as sparkling aluminium and I'm thinking it may be a little too much after taking the lid off for a looksee.
I've decided to tint it slightly to take the edge off the intensity. Something like a black or dark grey tint would work well I feel.
I did consider using some of that chrome paint from Rage Extreme - its normally used on alloys for a mirror finish but swapped out at the last minute as it would look 'cheesy' I thought. It would also be extremely difficult to apply to a satisfactory standard too. High gloss is one thing but a chrome mirror? If it weren't perfect it would look a mess and the cabinets would end up in the bin!
Keeping it simple but effective this time.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.