ShinOBIWAN said:
Yup.. but I don't think you'll get what you want from any of the TC drivers. Nor on the basics of the design..
I'm OK with sealed systems, even eq.ed sealed systems. The problem I have with most sealed systems is compression and acoustic resistance - (..and their effect on linear decay behaviour). I've found without exception that it "slows" the sound to some extent. (..the worst I've heard was the Carver Amazing Subwoofer - a crappy little boom box.)
Now I have heard Bag End subwoofers and they have less of a "slow" sound - but thats because they have high force drivers with low x-max surrounds. Whats wrong with them is that you need many multiples to get distortion down to acceptable levels (..and they start off by using really cheap pro drivers with poor THD to begin with).
IMO that leaves either a very large sealed system with aperiodic "venting", OR the basics behind the system I presented for the ciare, OR a dampened multi-driver free-air cardoid.
Of the 3 - I actually like the 3rd method the best, and it can be done fairly cheaply in a moderate size (but it does requier L&R channels).. It however doesn't have quite the slam of either the first two methods, nor the max spl's, but what it does have is much better low frequency hall decay ='s "space" which can sometimes be enormous depending on the recording.
Something "straddeling" all 3 methods (sonically speaking) I *think* could be achieved in the basic esthetic form factor you desire, but it will require some eq. and a specific driver with modification. (i.e. it should give you slam, fairly low distortion throughout the passband, and excellent "hall decay" - but at the expense of high spl's) The genesis for this is JohnK's Nao sub.. but the dampenening should be a bit more like the "critical-q" sub (..though with more compliant batting for the "pannels" - likely cotton batting). The driver would be the 8ohm BMS Pro 15n840. Furthermore you would need to add mass to the dust cap to lower fs to about 13 Hz (..usually with silicone caulk and lead shot). When adjusting dampening panels you would be trying to achieve an almost resistive load while still keeping airflow resistance material (i.e. your dampening panels) at least 12 inches away from the driver. (..again though, this would require a L&R channel.)
It would take a lot of experimentation, but I think you would be VERY pleased with the result.
Note: Servo designs like the Velodyne, do little to overcome the problem of distortion at and near resonance - which essentially means that the servo is gimmick unless the driver is being used up higher in freq.s (..and there it isn't as important). Additionally, *good* shorting rings can essentially do the same thing only better.
..........
edit: NICE cases! ..and yes of course 3 out of 3 audiophiles prefer the "sound" of blue LED's 😀
Mutley666 said:ShinOBIWAN, where did you get those funky buttons from? 😉
I'd like to get my hands on some of those for my little project, when I finally get all the bits together that is
Farnell will gladly rip you off for £14.71inc each for them:
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=4303076&N=0
I'm almost sure you could get them cheaper if you looked hard enough. I spent a good while searching through the farnell website and those were the cheapest ones in that LED ring style, there were others from Schurter that cost around £25 each:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=1212116&N=401
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=1212109&N=401
Most of those come in various colours such as red, blue, green and amber.
Member
Joined 2002
ShinOBIWAN, can you post pics inside and out of these chassis ? i ordered one too. Just don't know what they look like.
Jase
Jase
Member
Joined 2002
Here are some pic's of the touch switch that i got. I love it. Il be buying more for sure. They are a turn on kit that Maxhawk made They work really really well.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Whoa. We must be on the same wavelength. I just got 6 of those exact cases last month and those Bulgin vandal switches (in blue) to adorn the front. I am building UcD amps into mine.
Those look great Jase, I still haven't had mine up and running but bought some of the Hypex softstart module from BMM Electronics to give me the push button functionality.
Here's a few pics of the enclosure, which should give you some ideas, certainly did me:
The cases also come to bits nicely, by that I mean every panel seperates and can be worked on easily - definitely no pot rivets and panels that won't seperate. The cases are also 100% alu with no steel being used, this makes cutting the rear panel extremely easy. The front panel is very finely brushed and anodised 6mm alu and the rest of the panels are 1.2mm alu with a similarly brushed finished to the front panel but with black anodisation.
The cases also have some functional but rather naff looking rubber feet. These are definitely an after thought and don't fit in with the quality of the rest of the case.
I've also noticed that they resonate a fair amount when you tap them, no doubt because they have nothing in them but I'm also going to be apply bitumen damping sheets to the top of the enclosure to make it more dead and the base will be have a 10mm Alu sheet applied which will act as a heatsink for the class D module in each and also a sturdy mounting point for the toroid and other PCB's.
Here's a few pics of the enclosure, which should give you some ideas, certainly did me:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The cases also come to bits nicely, by that I mean every panel seperates and can be worked on easily - definitely no pot rivets and panels that won't seperate. The cases are also 100% alu with no steel being used, this makes cutting the rear panel extremely easy. The front panel is very finely brushed and anodised 6mm alu and the rest of the panels are 1.2mm alu with a similarly brushed finished to the front panel but with black anodisation.
The cases also have some functional but rather naff looking rubber feet. These are definitely an after thought and don't fit in with the quality of the rest of the case.
I've also noticed that they resonate a fair amount when you tap them, no doubt because they have nothing in them but I'm also going to be apply bitumen damping sheets to the top of the enclosure to make it more dead and the base will be have a 10mm Alu sheet applied which will act as a heatsink for the class D module in each and also a sturdy mounting point for the toroid and other PCB's.
Member
Joined 2002
thylantyr said:
Dr. Frankenstein circuit breaker! ITS ALIVE! 😀
Or maybe that one was used for an electric chair
Cheers Scott.
So your not a fan of sealed enclosures over vented? I think in many situations sealed works well and offers more of a comfort zone providing you go for a critically damped alignment of around 0.5Qtc. This is what I did with the ATC 9" and it sounds pretty hot at what it does, certainly better than anything I've heard so far, problem is it only has usable output to 50hz.
If you remember way back last year when I had the now defunct ported cabinets that were left overs from the Seas W22, I tried the ATC ported but found that it had less of that realistic edge and lacking in tightness compared to sealed. I always get told of for saying fast bass but the sealed sounded more agile and defined than the ported equivalent. It did extend to 35hz with a nice amount of output though.
So clearly sealed and ported must be choices made around the driver and to some extent listening preferences.
What the ATC 9" is giving right now is tight, defined and believable, it doesn't sound like a loudspeaker in box at all, its hard to describe but I hear many many speakers and you can tell instantly that the bass is artificial with a slightly blurred, constrained and boxy quality, I tried hard with the enclosure construction and a bit of driver searching to get away from that whilst avoiding going dipole(huge radiating area and space needed that I don't have). Unfortunately the subs I've been trying out do sound like drivers in a box and therein lies the problems - they ruin the good work done by the mains when listening to music, personally I'd rather go without.
Any chance of mailing you Scott? I've got some question about this.
ScottG said:
So your not a fan of sealed enclosures over vented? I think in many situations sealed works well and offers more of a comfort zone providing you go for a critically damped alignment of around 0.5Qtc. This is what I did with the ATC 9" and it sounds pretty hot at what it does, certainly better than anything I've heard so far, problem is it only has usable output to 50hz.
If you remember way back last year when I had the now defunct ported cabinets that were left overs from the Seas W22, I tried the ATC ported but found that it had less of that realistic edge and lacking in tightness compared to sealed. I always get told of for saying fast bass but the sealed sounded more agile and defined than the ported equivalent. It did extend to 35hz with a nice amount of output though.
So clearly sealed and ported must be choices made around the driver and to some extent listening preferences.
What the ATC 9" is giving right now is tight, defined and believable, it doesn't sound like a loudspeaker in box at all, its hard to describe but I hear many many speakers and you can tell instantly that the bass is artificial with a slightly blurred, constrained and boxy quality, I tried hard with the enclosure construction and a bit of driver searching to get away from that whilst avoiding going dipole(huge radiating area and space needed that I don't have). Unfortunately the subs I've been trying out do sound like drivers in a box and therein lies the problems - they ruin the good work done by the mains when listening to music, personally I'd rather go without.
Any chance of mailing you Scott? I've got some question about this.
ShinOBIWAN said:
I do like sealed enclosures - its just that I like large sealed enclosures, or at least moderate sealed enclosures depending on the bandwidth.. And I always prefer aperiodic "venting" those sealed enclosures. (hmm.. is that "semi-sealed"?)
If the amplifer lacks substantial current, then I always hear the lack of "tightness" and "punch" with bass reflex designs. Another problem I have with them is that most are "aligned" - which limits extension and invariably has to much gain for the room. ANY driver, even those with low qts's or very high qts's can be effectivly "ported" (generally provided that port tunning doesn't extend higher than 70 Hz) - again its how you port it (and what the size of the enclosure is) and how the amplifier reacts to the load it presents.
Yup.. I know exactly that problem - getting good sub integration. Just think about those of us who go the "augmented" fullrange route, its worse for us with low mass high motor strength drivers going down to the upper bass and asking for a suitable "companion" to plumb the depths. (eh.. such is life.)
I'll hit your pm* here with my email account as soon as I've posted this - be forwarned though - sometimes I'm VERY slow to reply (though I'll keep a heads-up for the next couple of days for your email). 😉
*(if in fact this forum has that function)
I didn't like the cheap plastic feet at all so replaced them with some 11mm alu disks with foam applied to the top and bottom to damp some of the vibrations. Although you can't see it, I've also lined some of the interior with dedshete panels to keep the enclosure resonances down. And finally the switch is in place too.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Member
Joined 2002
Shin,
Are you going to keep us posted on your path for a subwoofer?
To me, your discussion with ScottG and everyone else was as exciting as the start of your Perceives.
Are you going to keep us posted on your path for a subwoofer?
To me, your discussion with ScottG and everyone else was as exciting as the start of your Perceives.
jleaman said:
Hi again Jase
I bought them from a seller on ebay, I believe his name was ukroy.
All they are is 2" diameter alu rod cut into slices of 11mm. The finish is fairly rough at first but with a bit of sanding upto 2000grit and then some metal polish and finally a small amount of laquer and they look polished:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Member
Joined 2002
tf1216 said:
I was going to discuss all this with Scott via email but if you think it would be of interest then we can keep the stuff on thread?
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