Hi Rich
The black ones are the same price as the aluminium ones. Which is around £250 each. Unfortunately there's no swap out or buy back that Scan does. So I'd have to just stump up the cash and have surplus silver ones that I could sell for a loss, try the blacking process or simply leave them silver/alu.
They are also definitely made from CNC'd alu.
The black ones are the same price as the aluminium ones. Which is around £250 each. Unfortunately there's no swap out or buy back that Scan does. So I'd have to just stump up the cash and have surplus silver ones that I could sell for a loss, try the blacking process or simply leave them silver/alu.
They are also definitely made from CNC'd alu.
Hmm I'm not sure if he has the chemicals for that. He can probably help you to obtain some though, if he hasn't.
I've asked my dad to contact him anyway. He's (hospitally) ill at the moment as well, but I don't think you are in a rush?
I've asked my dad to contact him anyway. He's (hospitally) ill at the moment as well, but I don't think you are in a rush?
richie00boy said:
No rush, the tweeters still work and I can enjoy the speakers. Soon as he's ready I can pop them out and get them done.
Shattered dreams!
I wondered why Police Dogs hide from me, it's because I must be so scary!
Seriously, I don't wish to influence you in any way, especially as you will blame me if it goes wrong!
The only doubts I have/had are over their possible anodising, and whether you do this colouring yourself, or anyone else does it, this will not be any different.
I am not casting 'nasturtiums', but £500+ worth of drivers!!!
Anyway, having made me feel guilty now, I have just tried a cotton bud with some Alminium Metal Black on my own tweets, which are identical to yours. No good, I'm afraid, not the slightest sign of any oxidising or darkening of the metal within several minutes, which suggests they are anodised.
If you do detach the faceplates, they could be 'stripped' by a *careful* anodiser/electroplater, and then re-done with black anodising. They just use a coloured dye before finally 'sealing' the finish, during the anodising process. Regrettably, once this sealing is done, it is not possible to anodise over the top of this, normally.
Now I know the bad news, I guess I will need to do this, and maybe use a marker pen on the pointy bits. Actually, I am rather attached to these particular phase-plugs, maybe because they remind me of something!!!
I wondered why Police Dogs hide from me, it's because I must be so scary!
Seriously, I don't wish to influence you in any way, especially as you will blame me if it goes wrong!
The only doubts I have/had are over their possible anodising, and whether you do this colouring yourself, or anyone else does it, this will not be any different.
I am not casting 'nasturtiums', but £500+ worth of drivers!!!
Anyway, having made me feel guilty now, I have just tried a cotton bud with some Alminium Metal Black on my own tweets, which are identical to yours. No good, I'm afraid, not the slightest sign of any oxidising or darkening of the metal within several minutes, which suggests they are anodised.
If you do detach the faceplates, they could be 'stripped' by a *careful* anodiser/electroplater, and then re-done with black anodising. They just use a coloured dye before finally 'sealing' the finish, during the anodising process. Regrettably, once this sealing is done, it is not possible to anodise over the top of this, normally.
Now I know the bad news, I guess I will need to do this, and maybe use a marker pen on the pointy bits. Actually, I am rather attached to these particular phase-plugs, maybe because they remind me of something!!!
Re: Shattered dreams!
Wouldn't it be possible to strip the anodisation off by sanding the face plate lightly? You could very easily brush back in the connical brushed steel effect that it already has and I've done this before a few times with great results.
Wouldn't it be possible to strip the anodisation off by sanding the face plate lightly? You could very easily brush back in the connical brushed steel effect that it already has and I've done this before a few times with great results.
Hi,
I just saw Ritchies latest. This was what I had rather guessed here, in view of what he said about car parts.
If you ever need to consider ferrous-metal blacking, the materials from Frosts (post# 386) are only £11+VAT for 1 Litre of the blacking solution, and that is all you would need to get going.
The rest of their full "kits", is only for cleaning and later oiling the metal.🙂
I just saw Ritchies latest. This was what I had rather guessed here, in view of what he said about car parts.
If you ever need to consider ferrous-metal blacking, the materials from Frosts (post# 386) are only £11+VAT for 1 Litre of the blacking solution, and that is all you would need to get going.
The rest of their full "kits", is only for cleaning and later oiling the metal.🙂
Yes it was a 3 or 4 stage process, with oiling as the final one as you say.
I don't think he can do alu but I've asked my dad to check.
I did think about sanding the anodising off but a chemical if available would be cleaner and probably better results. Just depends on the price of it and if it really is available I guess.
I think painting is out because if there are screw holes, it might ever so slightly mark/crack the paint around where the head sits.
I don't think he can do alu but I've asked my dad to check.
I did think about sanding the anodising off but a chemical if available would be cleaner and probably better results. Just depends on the price of it and if it really is available I guess.
I think painting is out because if there are screw holes, it might ever so slightly mark/crack the paint around where the head sits.
Re: Re: Shattered dreams!
No. I wouldn't be satisfied with the finish here, and I have been doing this kind of thing with 'restoration' projects for many years.
The surface finish (on mine, at least) is not brushed which has a slight 'direction' to the satin effect, whereas these are a random mottled effect if you look under magnification.
Again, if you could find a careful (if such a chap exists!) sandblaster, or possibly bead-blaster, they could do this for you, otherwise it will need chemically or eletrolytically stripping, which isn't very costly.
If you are interested, try local Yellow Pages under anodisers/electro-platers, and ask one. There are several companies locally, who will do this kind of work, especially for a bit of cash, so long as you give them a day or so. I am sure it shouldn't cost more than a tenner, but you do need to talk to the guy doing the job, and explain precisely what you want, what your concerns are, and that it will cost someone a lot if he bu**ers it up.
*Any* means of getting back to the bare parent metal would work, of course, but these tweets look so pretty, that I wouldn't wish to see them spoiled in any way. As the finish is already bead-blasted (slightly textured) and not smooth, most careless attacks at these faceplates sufficient to get down to the substrate all over, will inevitably round off the sharp edges etc., which would break my heart! Apart from an annulus of about 1/2" around the periphery, these are not flat on their fronts, (put a *non-magnetic* ruler across them, and see) and so you cannot use a surface plate to sand them on successfully.
Also, the problem with anodising is that it hardens the metal surface by a considerable factor, but this hard layer is very thin. Therefore when removing the surface (unless it is quite smooth) where you first break through the anodising on high spots, this will then tend to wear away much more here than the remaining harder surface areas, and you end up with patchy results.
I have 'effed-up' some parts whilst trying to do this before.
I hope this helps. 🙂
Edit. P.S. Even if you get down to base metal by some means, you will still need something like the Carrs product to do the colouring, and an anodised finish would still be better here, I am sure. This is certainly what I will do now, as the same guy can both strip and re-anodise in black at the same time.
ShinOBIWAN said:
No. I wouldn't be satisfied with the finish here, and I have been doing this kind of thing with 'restoration' projects for many years.
The surface finish (on mine, at least) is not brushed which has a slight 'direction' to the satin effect, whereas these are a random mottled effect if you look under magnification.
Again, if you could find a careful (if such a chap exists!) sandblaster, or possibly bead-blaster, they could do this for you, otherwise it will need chemically or eletrolytically stripping, which isn't very costly.
If you are interested, try local Yellow Pages under anodisers/electro-platers, and ask one. There are several companies locally, who will do this kind of work, especially for a bit of cash, so long as you give them a day or so. I am sure it shouldn't cost more than a tenner, but you do need to talk to the guy doing the job, and explain precisely what you want, what your concerns are, and that it will cost someone a lot if he bu**ers it up.
*Any* means of getting back to the bare parent metal would work, of course, but these tweets look so pretty, that I wouldn't wish to see them spoiled in any way. As the finish is already bead-blasted (slightly textured) and not smooth, most careless attacks at these faceplates sufficient to get down to the substrate all over, will inevitably round off the sharp edges etc., which would break my heart! Apart from an annulus of about 1/2" around the periphery, these are not flat on their fronts, (put a *non-magnetic* ruler across them, and see) and so you cannot use a surface plate to sand them on successfully.
Also, the problem with anodising is that it hardens the metal surface by a considerable factor, but this hard layer is very thin. Therefore when removing the surface (unless it is quite smooth) where you first break through the anodising on high spots, this will then tend to wear away much more here than the remaining harder surface areas, and you end up with patchy results.
I have 'effed-up' some parts whilst trying to do this before.
I hope this helps. 🙂
Edit. P.S. Even if you get down to base metal by some means, you will still need something like the Carrs product to do the colouring, and an anodised finish would still be better here, I am sure. This is certainly what I will do now, as the same guy can both strip and re-anodise in black at the same time.
OK thanks for all the advice.
I've decided that I'm going to leave them as is. There's way too many what if's for me to consider doing it. Maybe if I was experienced but not as a first shot thing.
If Rich's friend can manage it then that will be fine and I'll do that but other than that I'm just going to live with it.
I'm planning on doing some surrounds later this year or maybe next so its very likely I'll be buying some more of the R2904 and these will be black. The silver's can then be move to the surrounds. But before any of that gets even considered, I've got these to finish up and then two subs to build and I'm pretty sure that'll cover all the DIY I can handle until the end of this year.
It sounded like a great idea but I'm not brave enough to try it, though I would definitely be giving it a try if we were talking about £30 tweeters.
I've decided that I'm going to leave them as is. There's way too many what if's for me to consider doing it. Maybe if I was experienced but not as a first shot thing.
If Rich's friend can manage it then that will be fine and I'll do that but other than that I'm just going to live with it.
I'm planning on doing some surrounds later this year or maybe next so its very likely I'll be buying some more of the R2904 and these will be black. The silver's can then be move to the surrounds. But before any of that gets even considered, I've got these to finish up and then two subs to build and I'm pretty sure that'll cover all the DIY I can handle until the end of this year.
It sounded like a great idea but I'm not brave enough to try it, though I would definitely be giving it a try if we were talking about £30 tweeters.
heres something in the us-of-a that will work rather well
made for the model train enthusiast
paint with the pigment ground extremely fine-
http://www.weavermodels.com/page7.html
also from another company-floquil-
http://www.testors.com
no idea what may be available where you are
made for the model train enthusiast
paint with the pigment ground extremely fine-
http://www.weavermodels.com/page7.html
also from another company-floquil-
http://www.testors.com
no idea what may be available where you are
ShinOBIWAN said:
Hi Shin,
I feel relieved for your sake now you have said this. There is always the potential for something to go wrong, and, as I said earlier, they are gorgeous to look at as they are, and too costly to take any risks with.
When I can face stripping my speakers down and doing without listening to them for a few days, I will explore the local anodiser, now I know this is clearly the best way. The only reason for my considering using the metal black was so I could do it myself in an hour or so, and avoid them being out of service.
If anything good comes of this and you are still in the same position, you could send me your face-plates (if you wish) and I could have them done the same way.
Regards,
🙂
Bobken said:
Thanks for that and all the other advice Bob. Its not been wasted as I've learned something and will almost certainly try it out at some point in the future.
But I do have another question for anyone who's tried this sort of thing before. I'm looking at cutting the legs down to size and I've got a couple of options:
Mark the tubing then use a simple hacksaw
Do the same as above but with an angle grinder
And the one I'm not too sure about is use the mitre saw.
Out of all those the mitre would definitely provide the cleanest cut but I've only ever tried cutting wood with it. Its this model that I use:
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?Referrer=IndexSite&PID=124391
Its a great for wood but would it be suitable for cutting steel? I'm know that the blade would obviously have to be changed but for what type?
Thanks.
A grinder would probably be best. Better yet, plasma cutter. I would not try the miter saw, the rpm isn't fast enough and the blade isn't made to cut steel.
btw, if you don't want to do it yourself, go to a local muffler shop, they sure can do it for you
btw, if you don't want to do it yourself, go to a local muffler shop, they sure can do it for you
sqlkev said:
Hi sql
The mitre saw spins at 5000rpm with an 1800w motor. I've cut through 3" of MDF a good few times and doesn't even blink at that. Its not far off the best portable mitre saw you can get or at least is was when we bought it early last year. I'd expect it to be handle more than wood, hopefully anyway.
I'm sure it could handle 1mm thick steel pole with the right blade, I do understand that the current one I use for wood will be next to useless not to mention dangerous for cutting metal.
I'll do a search for steel cutting discs or whatever they're called.
I've got one of those really cheap and nasty £15 angle grinders but I'm next to useless with it and the last time I cut some old scaffolding poles up the ends were very rough and generally in poor shape. I think it was combination of me, the cheap grinder and the even cheaper cutting disc. I'm hoping that I can use the mitre saw since that will be a near perfect chop.
shinobiwan,
the blades to cut steel for your miter saw will probably be around $100usd for a decent one. On top of that, you will need to get an rpm adjuster to reduce the speed on your miter saw. If you use the grinder with a fast rpm, you can probably get away with a cheap diamond blade and throw it away when you're done.
I log on here almost everyday just to see how far your are with your project. Wished I can hear it though.
the blades to cut steel for your miter saw will probably be around $100usd for a decent one. On top of that, you will need to get an rpm adjuster to reduce the speed on your miter saw. If you use the grinder with a fast rpm, you can probably get away with a cheap diamond blade and throw it away when you're done.
I log on here almost everyday just to see how far your are with your project. Wished I can hear it though.
sqlkev said:
Ouch! I hope they aren't that much otherwise I'll make do with the naff 4" angle grinder 🙂
Diamond blade? That sounds expensive rather than cheap.
Why does something new always have to be complicated 😀 I remember when I first started building speakers a few years back and I actually used a jigsaw for cutting the panels - the fit was attrocious and I packed the huge gaps with globs of silicon. I then discover circular saws and then finally invested in a table saw. Same goes for the driver cutouts, first with the jigsaw and no flush mounting whatsoever and then I scared the hell out of myself with a 1600w router set to full speed - dumb idea since faster certainly ain't better. Amazing just how much wood and MDF I've wasted over the years through zero experience in these things and having to learn by mistakes. I'm guessing, but hopefully not, that its going to be the same case for metal working.
And trust me, if I can do this anybody can. I'm probably the least practical person I know. I generally prefer to think my way out of problems rather than doing something as daft as hardwork 😀
EDIT: I just checked out the diamond blades and I see what you mean. They aren't actually very expensive.
I was exactly like you 😱
Even though I work with different tools very often, I'm still amazed by the accuracy of your cuts. I'm guessing you used the slider miter saw?
I never had the guts to see myself mess up on those cuts.
Aren't you gonna hide the ends of the steel tubes though?
Even though I work with different tools very often, I'm still amazed by the accuracy of your cuts. I'm guessing you used the slider miter saw?
I never had the guts to see myself mess up on those cuts.
Aren't you gonna hide the ends of the steel tubes though?
Ive fitted quite a few pairs of expensive suspension forks to mountian bikes, which involves cutting the "steerer tube" which sticks out the top to the right length. These are generally made from high grade cro-moly steel or pretty thick aluminium, and the best way ive found of cutting them is to use a plain old pipe cutter like this one http://www.ted-kyte.com/3D/Pictures/Pipe Cutter.jpg to start the cut off, guarantees a 90 degree cut, then once you're about half way through finish off with a hacksaw in the groove thats been made. Finish the burrs of with a file and its sorted 😀
Hi Shin,
If I may be so bold.
Avoid any *hand held* motorised tool like the angle-grinder, as it is all too easy for the blade to 'bounce' on initial contact and to slip and spoil the finish here. Metal is less forgiving than wood, which you are more used to cutting. Also, angle-grinders are rather violent in action for a smooth finish as you have found.
A simple hacksaw would make this an easy enough job, and even though I have a powered metal-cutting hacksaw and a metal bandsaw, I would simply use the hand-held hacksaw for this, myself.
Get a *new* blade with either 32 TPI or maybe 24 TPI, but no coarser, as ideally you need to have at least 3 teeth in contact with the section of metal at all times when sawing through, or the saw tends to jamb and gives a bad cut. Most people make it hard for themselves thinking that the cutting will be easier with a coarser blade, but this not so.
Wrap a piece of paper (or any flexible material with one straight side) around the pipe where you wish to make the cut, pull it tightly around the pipe and align the edges where it overlaps. If you then use a marker pen and mark along the edge of the paper, this will give you the exact 90 Deg. cutting line. It takes longer to describe this than it does to actually do it! After marking the line, and especially if you are not too confident, wind 3 or 4 layers of masking tape around the pipe on the side of the pipe which you will retain right next to the cutting-line, which gives a defined 'edge' to work against, and should protect the surface if you slip whilst starting the cut.
I think you must have a Work-Mate from pics I recall seeing from you, and if so it will be ideal for this. The most important thing with any of these jobs is supporting and gripping the work firmly, without doing any damage to the finish.
With steel (is it steel?) you shouldn't need to protect this when gripping the pipe in the grooves or slots along the length of the WM's top parts as they are only wood, anyway, and should grip the pipe ideally here. If aluminium, maybe I would tape the pipes up first, with some masking tape, to assist with the grip on a polished surface, and avoid squashing the pipe.
Tighten the handles evenly and slowly, until the pipe will not rotate in the WM's jaws, and a great deal of pressure will not be needed here. You can always increase the grip in use if needed. Arrange the job so that the cut is say 1/2" outside the end of the WM's jaws, and this will give the best overall support. Assuming you are right-handed, arrange the job with the WM in front of you, and with the protruding part (to be cut off) to your right, so you can also steady the WM with your left hand when you get going, if needed.
Start the cut gently, if necessary using your left hand fingers gripping the work at the side of the blade to avoid 'skipping' back over the good part of the pipe, and cut through say 1/8th of the way around the pipe. Move the work around in the jaws (forwards, away from you) by a suitable amount so the next part to be cut is back on top, align the blade in the existing slot (possibly by leaning the front of the saw downwards to begin with, so it engages here) and carry on around the pipe in stages.
With a bit of care, and you could try some oil on the blade if it feels rough whilst cutting (stainless-steel is always 'gritty' and rough, BTW) and you should eventually meet up with the start of the cut OK.
Cutting right across any pipe 'freehand' in one pass, is never so easy as you cannot see both sides of the pipe at once, and as you get 1/2 way through, you are then cutting at 90 Deg to the metal's plane (and cutting two sides at once), whereas at all other times you are cutting at a varying angle to it. This just gives a less even result, is less easy to control and the cut can 'wander' much more easily.
Trying a 'sample' cut on the wasted end portion first, to see how you get on, might be a good idea too.
Once you have started the cut, use long slow steady strokes uitilising almost the whole blade's length, and not short quick stabbing strokes here. I generally prefer to use the saw with both hands, as this will enable a steadier and more-controlled 'stroke'.
In the time it has taken me to type this, I could easily have done both of these cuts, so don't tell me I have frightened you off with too much complication here. I have just tried to be thorough in this explanation to make it easy and safe for you, as you have not done this before.🙂
Regards,
Apols for spelling edits!
If I may be so bold.
Avoid any *hand held* motorised tool like the angle-grinder, as it is all too easy for the blade to 'bounce' on initial contact and to slip and spoil the finish here. Metal is less forgiving than wood, which you are more used to cutting. Also, angle-grinders are rather violent in action for a smooth finish as you have found.
A simple hacksaw would make this an easy enough job, and even though I have a powered metal-cutting hacksaw and a metal bandsaw, I would simply use the hand-held hacksaw for this, myself.
Get a *new* blade with either 32 TPI or maybe 24 TPI, but no coarser, as ideally you need to have at least 3 teeth in contact with the section of metal at all times when sawing through, or the saw tends to jamb and gives a bad cut. Most people make it hard for themselves thinking that the cutting will be easier with a coarser blade, but this not so.
Wrap a piece of paper (or any flexible material with one straight side) around the pipe where you wish to make the cut, pull it tightly around the pipe and align the edges where it overlaps. If you then use a marker pen and mark along the edge of the paper, this will give you the exact 90 Deg. cutting line. It takes longer to describe this than it does to actually do it! After marking the line, and especially if you are not too confident, wind 3 or 4 layers of masking tape around the pipe on the side of the pipe which you will retain right next to the cutting-line, which gives a defined 'edge' to work against, and should protect the surface if you slip whilst starting the cut.
I think you must have a Work-Mate from pics I recall seeing from you, and if so it will be ideal for this. The most important thing with any of these jobs is supporting and gripping the work firmly, without doing any damage to the finish.
With steel (is it steel?) you shouldn't need to protect this when gripping the pipe in the grooves or slots along the length of the WM's top parts as they are only wood, anyway, and should grip the pipe ideally here. If aluminium, maybe I would tape the pipes up first, with some masking tape, to assist with the grip on a polished surface, and avoid squashing the pipe.
Tighten the handles evenly and slowly, until the pipe will not rotate in the WM's jaws, and a great deal of pressure will not be needed here. You can always increase the grip in use if needed. Arrange the job so that the cut is say 1/2" outside the end of the WM's jaws, and this will give the best overall support. Assuming you are right-handed, arrange the job with the WM in front of you, and with the protruding part (to be cut off) to your right, so you can also steady the WM with your left hand when you get going, if needed.
Start the cut gently, if necessary using your left hand fingers gripping the work at the side of the blade to avoid 'skipping' back over the good part of the pipe, and cut through say 1/8th of the way around the pipe. Move the work around in the jaws (forwards, away from you) by a suitable amount so the next part to be cut is back on top, align the blade in the existing slot (possibly by leaning the front of the saw downwards to begin with, so it engages here) and carry on around the pipe in stages.
With a bit of care, and you could try some oil on the blade if it feels rough whilst cutting (stainless-steel is always 'gritty' and rough, BTW) and you should eventually meet up with the start of the cut OK.
Cutting right across any pipe 'freehand' in one pass, is never so easy as you cannot see both sides of the pipe at once, and as you get 1/2 way through, you are then cutting at 90 Deg to the metal's plane (and cutting two sides at once), whereas at all other times you are cutting at a varying angle to it. This just gives a less even result, is less easy to control and the cut can 'wander' much more easily.
Trying a 'sample' cut on the wasted end portion first, to see how you get on, might be a good idea too.
Once you have started the cut, use long slow steady strokes uitilising almost the whole blade's length, and not short quick stabbing strokes here. I generally prefer to use the saw with both hands, as this will enable a steadier and more-controlled 'stroke'.
In the time it has taken me to type this, I could easily have done both of these cuts, so don't tell me I have frightened you off with too much complication here. I have just tried to be thorough in this explanation to make it easy and safe for you, as you have not done this before.🙂
Regards,
Apols for spelling edits!
sqlkev said:
Thanks SQL
And yes, it was all the on mitre for this project. I did use the table saw for the rear panel in the woofer cabinet because it was too long to cut in the mitre. I think I've got a bit of that OCD because I like to plan everything out to smallest detail on the computer and then measure everything around 3 times before cutting. Its a slow way of working but I find it helps avoid many of the mistakes I used to make.
I also tend to cut most things slightly larger than they should be and then either sand those flush with the rest of the surface or finely trim down using the mitre then test the fit and repeat if necessary.
Without the mitre saw and its accuracy, this project would have been next to impossible for me with the table saw. Well worth the price we paid for it.
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