m0tion said:
I've hired an Earthworks M50 mic and 1021 pre-amp from Real-Time Music near where I live.
I do own a Behringer ECM8000 though but wanted something more accurate to use when initially setting these up.
Despite the fact that Audiotrak seems to have superior drivers, they don't support multiple cards. So unlike M-audio, you cannot use more than one MAYA 1010. (arg!)
RME DIGI is starting to look like the only feasible option for >10 channels. The problem I see is that most of these channels are ADAT lightpipe, which means more boxes and more money to get to analog.
RME DIGI is starting to look like the only feasible option for >10 channels. The problem I see is that most of these channels are ADAT lightpipe, which means more boxes and more money to get to analog.
tiroth said:
Why the DIGI series?
Go for the HDSP 9632 and you can use upto 3 cards each with a maximum of 8 analogue outs and 8 analogue in's as well as 8 digital in's and 8 digital out's.
>>Hi again Vil, I was wondering what your thoughts about using pristine space for DRC were. Been playing a little with the demo version and its pretty impressive stuff.
yes thats cool technology .there is few more plugins like pristine space . one is freware - SIR and another comes from waves - IR1.
the biggest trick about using convolution reverbs for DRC is to get good impulse response file of your room .friend of mine who is doing acoustic measurments uses real gun , shoots (without bullets , hehe) and analise recorded file . if you can measure your room response with good quality gear - thats good way to go .
yes thats cool technology .there is few more plugins like pristine space . one is freware - SIR and another comes from waves - IR1.
the biggest trick about using convolution reverbs for DRC is to get good impulse response file of your room .friend of mine who is doing acoustic measurments uses real gun , shoots (without bullets , hehe) and analise recorded file . if you can measure your room response with good quality gear - thats good way to go .
Vil said:
Cheers Vil,
I used a high quality WAV of an electrical 'crack' or 'pulse'.
The mic I'm using now is a hired Earthworks M50, so its accurate.
Would it be better to actually use both Curve EQ and Pristine together? One for CurveEQ for flatting the response and Pristine to eliminate reverb?
ShinOBIWAN said:
Too expensive for me. For 18 channels, you'd need 2 AEB8-O, so $600+$250+$250=$1100. That doesn't even get you particularly amazing sound quality due to the older AEB boards, but in order to use the newer analog boards the cost jumps to over $2500 due to the need for more HDSP cards.
A really cheap solution would be prodigy 7.1 for effects channels, Delta 1010 or Maya 1010 for mains, tie everything together with ASIO4all driver which makes all those channels look like one ASIO card to Console. That way you get the routing power of the Audiotrak cards and the better sound quality of a pro card. But, ASIO4all isn't a guaranteed to work with all cards so it is a bit of a crapshoot. It might work, it might not.
hi Shin,
there is no clear answer what is the best .I heard a lot of acoustically over damped studio control rooms , and don't think thats the best room for an audiophile at home. so if you totaly eliminate room reverberations it can sound "dead" and not natural. i think the best way is something mixed between damping of some bad reflections and some DRC .
yes I know those impulse files for a very long period , I first tried that technology probably 4 or 5 years ago , do you remember Sonic Foundry Acoustic Modeler ? that software is a pioneer of convulsion for windows platform . there isn't anything wrong to use that impulse file , the bigest problem is good microphone ,low preamp and background noise . that limits your dinamic range and distorts audio signal at low levels (lets say with big dinamics in clasical music records) your Earthworks M50 mic is pretty good . try to measure your room at quiet time (night ) and select right gain level at preamp for the best dinamic range , also use good quality ADC (if you can get one temporary)
there is no clear answer what is the best .I heard a lot of acoustically over damped studio control rooms , and don't think thats the best room for an audiophile at home. so if you totaly eliminate room reverberations it can sound "dead" and not natural. i think the best way is something mixed between damping of some bad reflections and some DRC .
yes I know those impulse files for a very long period , I first tried that technology probably 4 or 5 years ago , do you remember Sonic Foundry Acoustic Modeler ? that software is a pioneer of convulsion for windows platform . there isn't anything wrong to use that impulse file , the bigest problem is good microphone ,low preamp and background noise . that limits your dinamic range and distorts audio signal at low levels (lets say with big dinamics in clasical music records) your Earthworks M50 mic is pretty good . try to measure your room at quiet time (night ) and select right gain level at preamp for the best dinamic range , also use good quality ADC (if you can get one temporary)
tiroth said:
While using ASIO4All might 'work', unless you sync the cards somehow you'll run into problems with clock drift. You could 'probably' use spdif as the sync mechanism if you didn't need any digital in/out, but I'm not sure how changing sample rates will work in that case. I'd really try to find a single-card solution before falling back to multiple cards.
With an Emu 1820/1820m you can get 8 analog + 4 digital (2 spdif pairs) outs in a single unit without having to go with ADAT.
The 1820 is $399, the 1820m is $499 (the difference being better converters in the 1820m) Add something like the Behringer ADAT rig (under $250), and at 44.1/48 you can get a total of 16 analog outs for a cost of either $650(1820) or $750(1820m). 8 of these will be very good to great for the mains, 8 will be suitable for surround/effects or very limitied bandwidth use (subs, supertweets etc). Decent option IMHO.
The only problem with the Emu is that the WDM drivers are 2-channel only. Well, plus changing sample rates is a royal pain.
I have a Delta 1010 and an Emu 1820m, and IMHO the Emu is clearly superior. The Delta 1010 is a good card, but at $600 or whatever it is I don't think it's competitive with newer gear.
dwk123 said:
The EMU looks like a great option for the money. I bet you can run that CAT5 link farther than 10' too.
The lack of a multichannel WDM driver is a major hurdle, but I know that J River media center supports ASIO output, so that makes at least one player that could work with it.
Ok, am I missing something? It looks to me like the Waves plugins that folks are using are only available in various bundles, the cheapest of which is about $1k. Is this right?
If so, I'm thinking this prices it out of most folks around here, and makes the cost of the card somewhat secondary.
Continuing to putz with the Foobar dsp framework looks like a much cheaper strategy......
Hit and miss. It *is* just a standard cat 5 cable with an RF filter, but success with alternate cables is spotty. I got a 25' cat 6 cable that doesn't work, but some folks have reported running OK with 20' cables. Power is carried over the same link, so I'm wondering whether an alternate power supply arrangement might allow better performance over a longer link.
If so, I'm thinking this prices it out of most folks around here, and makes the cost of the card somewhat secondary.
Continuing to putz with the Foobar dsp framework looks like a much cheaper strategy......
Hit and miss. It *is* just a standard cat 5 cable with an RF filter, but success with alternate cables is spotty. I got a 25' cat 6 cable that doesn't work, but some folks have reported running OK with 20' cables. Power is carried over the same link, so I'm wondering whether an alternate power supply arrangement might allow better performance over a longer link.
There is no need to use something as expensive as Waves -- the free SIR convolver plus DRC will give you FIR response correction, and can even be used to create FIR crossovers if you process the impulses appropriately.
dwk123 said:
Its a touchy subject but if your *resourceful* you can get it for around the same price as a meal round at your parents house 😉
Soundcard to consider
This $25US card (Chaintech 7.1) can be tricked into thinking it is a Prodigy 7.1. You can then use the Prodigy driver with it. This only give one digital out. But at that price stick 3 in a computer.
I have three and (in time) will try VIL's I2S LVDS Cat6 method with them. In any event they are great for a single "bit perfect" digital output. I have been using one that way for close to a year now.
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=23680&CatId=107
VIL do you see any big problem with using 3 of these instead of a single Prodigy 7.1?
This $25US card (Chaintech 7.1) can be tricked into thinking it is a Prodigy 7.1. You can then use the Prodigy driver with it. This only give one digital out. But at that price stick 3 in a computer.
I have three and (in time) will try VIL's I2S LVDS Cat6 method with them. In any event they are great for a single "bit perfect" digital output. I have been using one that way for close to a year now.
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=23680&CatId=107
VIL do you see any big problem with using 3 of these instead of a single Prodigy 7.1?
tiroth said:
Well what about a single HDSP 9632 with a AO4S-192 expansion card, this will give you 6 good analogue outs for the mains. Then use the ADAT for another 8 channels, send this down a light pipe to a Behringer ADA8000 which then does the DAC and hey presto you have 8 channels of serviceable quality for surround.
Altogether you'll have 14 analogue outs and 6 of those will be good quality. Perfect for stereo and DD/DTS.
Should you need better quality, then go with all digital and external DAC'S, sky's the limit here in cost of course.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Ouch! I didn't realize it was only 8 analog in/out. That means I'd need a few.... May have to stick with active mains (and maybe center) initially and see how I feel about making the rest of the channels active.
>>>VIL do you see any big problem with using 3 of these instead of a single Prodigy 7.1?
just one problem -you need to use same clock oscilator for all of them .
>>>>I have three and (in time) will try VIL's I2S LVDS Cat6 method with them.
that card has different modification "light" envy chip . there is no 4 I2S on that chip .
just one problem -you need to use same clock oscilator for all of them .
>>>>I have three and (in time) will try VIL's I2S LVDS Cat6 method with them.
that card has different modification "light" envy chip . there is no 4 I2S on that chip .
Big fan of pristine space here. PS can do 8 independent channels. The next version of curveEq can do 8 independnet channels too. So curveEQ (next version)-->pristine space can be pretty amazing.
3 Chaintech cards for 3 digital outs
Hi Vil,
Right I need to use the same clock for all 3. But this can be done by using an external clock and connecting them together?
Right only one digital out per card.
So I guess I am asking if the same setup as you can be created using 3 (almost free) soundcards instead of the Prodigy 7.1? Also would the software work ok with 3 cards vs 1 card?
I guess I would be short one digital output compared to the Prodigy's 4 outs, but for a three way xo one only needs 3 digital outs.
Thanks.
Hi Vil,
Right I need to use the same clock for all 3. But this can be done by using an external clock and connecting them together?
Right only one digital out per card.
So I guess I am asking if the same setup as you can be created using 3 (almost free) soundcards instead of the Prodigy 7.1? Also would the software work ok with 3 cards vs 1 card?
I guess I would be short one digital output compared to the Prodigy's 4 outs, but for a three way xo one only needs 3 digital outs.
Thanks.
using wave drivers - probably yes , but not with ASIO , or you need to flash that card to something like m-audio , those drivers are with multiple card and ASIO support . you can't flash them to prodigy 7.1 , no multi card support in drivers .
ShinOBIWAN said:
Ah, well. I'm not known as being terribly resourceful, unfortunately.
Yup. Their Convolution Pack at $170 looks like the ticket. Throw in Console for $50, and you're looking good for less than the price of a Behringer DCX. I've been messing with this stuff using BruteFIR and Linux, so building everything into a single convolution impulse makes sense to me. (not to suggest it's all that easy, though)
CurveEQ looks cool, but it's technically a bit superfulous - you can just build the appropriate eq curves into the impulses in pristine space. BTW - how's the cpu consumption on Pristine Space? Say 6 channels with 34k or 64k impulses?
I just may have to download all the demos for these things to see how they hang together.....
BTW - ShinOBIWAN - I've chimed in on all of this computer stuff, but forgot to say that your speakers are just flat out amazing. Absolutely beautiful.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.