David Gatti said:That's funny - I did a similar thing. Wired one of my mids out of phase the first time, and things just didn't gel. Now I battery test all my woofers & mids after they're mounted.
Good to know I'm not the first to admit it 🙂
The battery test sounds useful, never thought of that. Wouldn't be much use for tweeter though 😀
Well spent this morning tweaking the levels, removing/adding stuffing in the bass section and moving the speaker into slightly different positions.
I have a few Mackie HR626 active studio monitors to compare the speakers against, so these were used as a comparison when tuning. The Mackies have an anechoic response of +/- 1dB, inroom this will obviously change but its a very neutral speaker and great for benchmarking.
It was clear from the first AB comparison that there was no contest. The Mackies sounded bright and forced, midrange is a little hazy and bass non-exist, though still nice compared to these. They just don't sound half as natural as these. Playing vocals is a prime example or piano solo's.
The Mackies were my previous benchmark but these fly past them in a way that's hard to imagine and something that I wasn't really expecting since I love the Mackie sound.
I'm going to have to get a mic and measure the phase and response. Running a sweep though shows no obvious level changes about the crossover points which tells me phase is ok. The hard work that went into the baffle slope paid off.
The only problem now is that the tweeter could do with knocking down a little more, its at max attenuation on the 20k pot.
I guess it could do with a higher value eg. 30k?
Linkwitz Transform will be added soon, response is flat to 35hz but afterward it will be 20hz with improved group and phase response.
I have a few Mackie HR626 active studio monitors to compare the speakers against, so these were used as a comparison when tuning. The Mackies have an anechoic response of +/- 1dB, inroom this will obviously change but its a very neutral speaker and great for benchmarking.
It was clear from the first AB comparison that there was no contest. The Mackies sounded bright and forced, midrange is a little hazy and bass non-exist, though still nice compared to these. They just don't sound half as natural as these. Playing vocals is a prime example or piano solo's.
The Mackies were my previous benchmark but these fly past them in a way that's hard to imagine and something that I wasn't really expecting since I love the Mackie sound.
I'm going to have to get a mic and measure the phase and response. Running a sweep though shows no obvious level changes about the crossover points which tells me phase is ok. The hard work that went into the baffle slope paid off.
The only problem now is that the tweeter could do with knocking down a little more, its at max attenuation on the 20k pot.
I guess it could do with a higher value eg. 30k?
Linkwitz Transform will be added soon, response is flat to 35hz but afterward it will be 20hz with improved group and phase response.
m0tion said:
TrueRTA for the amplitude sweeps, its quick and simple with this program.
The bulk of measuring is done by Speaker Workshop & lspCAD. I prefer the interface on lsp but SW is far better with the TS.
Bad news or at least I hope it isn't.
I've just swapped out the drivers out for the ones that will be used in the other, as yet, unfinished cabinet. Reason for doing this was to run the drivers in and then test for TS parameters so I could accurately calculate values for the LT circuit.
Unfortunately after replacing them the Scan Ring appears to be defective. It plays but the sound is very broken and distorted, its really quiet too. This one I bought from Wilmslow audio in the UK and the other one that works fine was from Germany as I got it for quite a bit less.
At first I thought it might be the amps or something like that so I swapped back over to the known working scan ring and this plays fine using the same amp. Swapped back over and the same quiet and distorted sound on the one from Wilmslow.
All the other drivers are playing fine its just this dodgy Scan. For £275 you'd think these things would cook you breakfast each morning but it seems they can't even play a decent tune!
Bit miffed really, onto Wilmslow first thing tommorow and get them to swap this one out.
Anyone else had a faulty driver from the box? And any idea's on what has gone wrong with it? Surely there isn't much to go wrong on a speaker.
I'm thinking voice coil misaligned or something to do with the voice coil at least.
I've just swapped out the drivers out for the ones that will be used in the other, as yet, unfinished cabinet. Reason for doing this was to run the drivers in and then test for TS parameters so I could accurately calculate values for the LT circuit.
Unfortunately after replacing them the Scan Ring appears to be defective. It plays but the sound is very broken and distorted, its really quiet too. This one I bought from Wilmslow audio in the UK and the other one that works fine was from Germany as I got it for quite a bit less.
At first I thought it might be the amps or something like that so I swapped back over to the known working scan ring and this plays fine using the same amp. Swapped back over and the same quiet and distorted sound on the one from Wilmslow.
All the other drivers are playing fine its just this dodgy Scan. For £275 you'd think these things would cook you breakfast each morning but it seems they can't even play a decent tune!
Bit miffed really, onto Wilmslow first thing tommorow and get them to swap this one out.
Anyone else had a faulty driver from the box? And any idea's on what has gone wrong with it? Surely there isn't much to go wrong on a speaker.
I'm thinking voice coil misaligned or something to do with the voice coil at least.
Bit of an update on the faulty Scan Ring:
Shortly after I posted about the problems I was having, it gave up completely. Now I cannot get any sound out of it at all.
I'm wondering if its something loose inside now?
I did turn it quite a bit as it was so quiet otherwise and this is when it went.
I'm confused?!?
First time I've ever had a speaker go fault.
Shortly after I posted about the problems I was having, it gave up completely. Now I cannot get any sound out of it at all.
I'm wondering if its something loose inside now?
I did turn it quite a bit as it was so quiet otherwise and this is when it went.
I'm confused?!?
First time I've ever had a speaker go fault.
And its not as if the system is faulty because the other scan tweeter is not damaged in the least.
When a voice coil is misaligned (slightly) you tend to get sound, which is loud, and sounds horrible and it "rings" at certain frequencies. Atleast this is in my experience with a morel dome.
When you blow a driver or partially damage, it can cause a similar situation but the sound is no longer as loud as it was before and it distorts badly. If the coil was half cooked and you turned it up to get more sound out then you could have completely fried it in doing so.
On another note loose connections can also cause this to happen. I have had a loose connection to a tweeter in the past and if loose enough the sound is again distorted, and can be quieter. If a tinsel lead from the connectors to the coil are damaged and frayed then the multi strand lead could have only been connected via a couple, or even just one of its strands. If so the current capability of the wire will have been very low, turning it up could have caused the wire to simply melt, thus no sound anymore.
There is no way to tell whats happened unless you open them up and physically look at the construction and measure the coil directly on the dome. But this is not in your best interests if you want to get it swapped.
When a voice coil is misaligned (slightly) you tend to get sound, which is loud, and sounds horrible and it "rings" at certain frequencies. Atleast this is in my experience with a morel dome.
When you blow a driver or partially damage, it can cause a similar situation but the sound is no longer as loud as it was before and it distorts badly. If the coil was half cooked and you turned it up to get more sound out then you could have completely fried it in doing so.
On another note loose connections can also cause this to happen. I have had a loose connection to a tweeter in the past and if loose enough the sound is again distorted, and can be quieter. If a tinsel lead from the connectors to the coil are damaged and frayed then the multi strand lead could have only been connected via a couple, or even just one of its strands. If so the current capability of the wire will have been very low, turning it up could have caused the wire to simply melt, thus no sound anymore.
There is no way to tell whats happened unless you open them up and physically look at the construction and measure the coil directly on the dome. But this is not in your best interests if you want to get it swapped.
5th element said:
Could any number of those things.
I know its definitely not the amps that are faulty because they play fine with other drivers. Cabling again is soldered at the amp end and terminated with 5mm female blades at the speaker end.
Doesn't sound like a misaligned voice coil because it wasn't loud at all, quite the opposite. You really had to turn it up to hear a thing.
So more likely is a fault in the voice coil itself.
Certainly not going to open it up as its not my problem, I doubt very much if I could repair anything and even if I could, I wouldn't like the idea of £275 driver that I've repaired because it was faulty from factory. I've spoken to Wilmslow Audio today and they're going to swap it out for another one so it looks like its sorted now.
Ohhhh Shinobiwan
Will you be selling these on ebay 😀 for $7000 😀
Seriosly though VERY VERY nice is all I can say - Brilliant Cabinetry! Certainly an inspiration
If you havn't had your router sorted yet - I love my Triton - they are quite inovative and pretty good quality. They have all the features you were looking for.
Keep the updates comming
Will you be selling these on ebay 😀 for $7000 😀
Seriosly though VERY VERY nice is all I can say - Brilliant Cabinetry! Certainly an inspiration
If you havn't had your router sorted yet - I love my Triton - they are quite inovative and pretty good quality. They have all the features you were looking for.
Keep the updates comming
Byrd said:
$7000 😀 😀 They've probably cost me close to that in just the materials, drivers and electronics.
Cheers Byrd.
The other cabinet is catching up with this one, still need to sort out all the mounting for the amps and rear panels for both though.
More pictures:
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Nice work. The front baffle on your satellites reminds me of how I constructed mine.
Cheers, mac.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Cheers, mac.
mac said:
Great stuff mac,
You may or may not know what I'm on about when I say they look like a Dalek from that camera angle.
What do you think, veneered or piano black? Can't decide at the moment
I love piano black, I finish all of my speakers this way. But honestly, I think for a speaker project of this magnitude you should get some VERY VERY nice veneer, some sort of dark burl. I think speakers that are finished in a dark material look much more elegant and these speakers are definately elegant.
People see the great pics but not the blood, sweat and tears, eh Shinobiwan.
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ShinOBIWAN said:
Great stuff mac,
You may or may not know what I'm on about when I say they look like a Dalek from that camera angle.
Exterminate!
Although we dont see the blood sweat and tears im sure Obiwan feels much joy at being able to post a good pic or two on this forum.
Attachments
5th element said:
😀 😉 @ The plunger
Indeed I do enjoy sharing my idea's and work with everyone but I get even more pleasure from seeing other peoples hard work. I know I hard it is to pull off great looking speakers so it facsinates me to try and figure out just how someone built a design that interests me and looks great.
To think that only 15 years ago the internet was in a very infant state. I think we take it for granted now but on reflection it simply wouldn't have been possible for me to build these without it. I'd have had to rely on myself for troubleshooting which is difficult at best when your exploring new ideas and areas for the first time. We all polenate each others minds with what we show and express on here, I think its important to keep feeding back into that by philosophy by creating threads like this.
I've watched many ideas move from a schematic to a fully working model and it never ceases to amaze me at the amount of ingenuity that is present just in the common folks who share a passion.
Take a bow ladies and gents, DIY Audio is a great place to be thanks to you and keep sharing!
Interesting idea time folks.
What are your opinions on ambience drivers?
Von Schweikert seems to be a fan and has acclaimed designs, Castle and Mirage are other well known examples.
I'm thinking of mounting another pair of R2904's on the rear or top of the sats, wiring them out of phase with the main tweeter to add extra space to the sound.
I'd like opinions though before I take the idea any further as it could turn into an expensive mistake if I wreck the cabinets with holes and have unused drivers.
What are your opinions on ambience drivers?
Von Schweikert seems to be a fan and has acclaimed designs, Castle and Mirage are other well known examples.
I'm thinking of mounting another pair of R2904's on the rear or top of the sats, wiring them out of phase with the main tweeter to add extra space to the sound.
I'd like opinions though before I take the idea any further as it could turn into an expensive mistake if I wreck the cabinets with holes and have unused drivers.
Try it out cheaply first, just blu-tack another cheap pair of tweeters on the back, and see if you like the effect.
pinkmouse said:
Good idea.
If I like the effect do you think it would be worthwhile matching the drivers tonally?
I was thinking of the Vifa XT radiator as this is a much more sensibly priced tweeter for the job.
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