Peerless XLS 12" designs

[Mestinon]

heh, i didn't smoke nothing ....
I'm naturally crazy so I don't need that 😀


now frankly

I consider that "I suggest you give up on DIY and just buy yourself a nice Velodyne or something." crappy attitude from sort of people what are looking everything from above....
and you write that with "Best regards" 😱

if you can step down a bit to my level maybe you will understeand next....

maybe you think you have your reasons becouse you see in me just one more pain it the a** asking stupid questions but I wasent been lucky to been born smart so I must learn things 😱

my post is not written so that someone can take one sentence out of context to make yourself smart and fool from me...it's much more then that...I talk about everything..choices and doubts and i have lots of questions so I'm asking for answers...

so if you bother to loose time to write something i don't see the point in writing 'what's wrong' without that 'what's right' . If you are going to do that i would appreciate that you make yourself a favour and don't bother to write anything to me



btw, when you take a look at my context i think you will see that i see main problem in making big port in small box when I'm not going to use PR's and go the easy way what i know works best...i just wish to take advantage of ported box system when i allready won't use system like Linkwitz Transform becouse i need some 'easy' solution.......

well, I see there is no point in asking anything here so I guess i will need to learn by my own mistakes ....

Tnx. a lot 🙄

 

[morbo]

Mestinon - I would just dive in and get 2 xls woofers if you can afford it. 2 woofers in the same box or 2 boxes colocated will give you 6db more output, provided you have enough amplifier power. This is a significant difference.

There is nothing magical about a PR, it is the same as a bass reflex box, and does not have any less distortion. The only advantage in doing a PR is the possibility of smaller enclosure, and not having to worry about enough port surface area to avoid chuffing.

 

[ming696]

How about getting a single AE AV12 and two PR15-1400 15" passives in a 2.5cu ft enclousure? This is my setup only with a Rockford Fosgate sub and I've modeled both versions. The AV12 will get down to about 19.8 Hz and will work well with a 500watt plate amp. Mine plays down to about 19.5Hz but I use a Crown K2 amp. My box is 2.5 cu ft internal volume, and is made from two layers of 3/4 inch MDF. Internal dimensions are 12" wide, 18" deep, and 20" tall.

AE site:

http://yellow.mynethost.com/~bv126368/shop/catalog/

My sub:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[morbo]

only problem with that is that the AE stuff is not widely available outside the USA as far as I know. The peerless XLS have distributors on most continents.

 

[ming696]

Yeah, I didn't think about that 🙁

 

[rick57]

Many plate amps struggle under 4 ohms.

However Mestinon if you’re considering a Hypex:
their amps, probably including their plate amps, are claimed to be stable down to around 1 ohm!

I still think it’s overkill, or if you want to get the most benefit from two drivers, put them in separate boxes and spread they bass output through the room ~ *not co-located, for less room modes > smoother response.

Harman Kardon have an excellent easy to follow paper on this www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf.
🙂

 

[rick57]

Some XLS projects, none with two drivers:

www.geocities.com/adrian_mack/homepage.html

www.customanalogue.com/sub_index.htm

This I believe should be a little better ~ best:

www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-intro.htm

Cheers

 

[needtubes]

I'm not sure if anyone else posted this one before, but there's a "critical Q" project using Peerless XLS on JLTi.

 

[noodle_snacks]

Here is a peerless XXLS ported 12in subwoofer a friend has recently constructed, details to follow:

 

[demogorgon]

I'm not sure if anyone else posted this one before, but there's a "critical Q" project using Peerless XLS on JLTi.

you posted it for the third time 😉

(just had to)

-marius

 

[Mark Techer]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between XLS and XXLS in the Peerless range?

Mark

 

[rabbitz]

Tailored to more applications, more of them, more confusion 😉

Have a look around here and read the suggested applications.
http://www.tymphany.com/products_Peerless.html

IMO, they don't do anything basically better than the XLS but are directed at certain applications and impedances. Great when the combination of box type and impedance is what you are looking for, otherwise the XLS does nicely.

 

[damo21]

I did a few simulations in WinISD Pro to compare these drivers (I'm also building a sub), also compared with the Adire Shiva. It seems that the XXLS is better suited to a closed box system than the XLS, it shifts the SPL peak from around 80Hz (XLS) down to 65Hz (XXLS), but with 4dB more peak. 🙁
For a closed box system, the XLS and the XXLS are severely limited by their low excursion of 12.5mm, and cannot handle large box sizes like the Shiva.

The Shiva outperforms both of these drivers in a closed box significantly, providing an overall flatter response including lower frequencies. Unfortunately I can't find any Shivas in Australia left! It seems that the Shiva was in a class above these, but somehow they were in the same price range. 🙄

In conclusion, it looks like XLS and XXLS are both more suited to vented boxes, but I'm more interested in closed box for tight bass, I don't like high delay times for low frequencies.

Anyone know of a suitable replacement 12" driver with about 16mm of excursion available in Australia?

 

[demogorgon]

Damo, the reason for scandinavian drivers being as expencive, is offcourse that scandinavia is probably the most expencive place in the world to have something manufactured.

that goes for peerless, vifa, seas and scanspeak.

If everything isn't moved down to china already that is.
then it's just greed to blame.

 

[noodle_snacks]

The XXLS subs have increased mechanical excursion (50mm, unsure if p-p or one way) over the XLS subwoofers. DVC models and a wider range of impedances are also availible for the XXLS subs.

 

[Mark Techer]

Did some research. Looks like XXLS is 50mm (total) excursion and the XLS is 25mm. Still pretty impressive...

Mark

 

[damo21]

Ok can someone tell me then, in WinISD it shows Xmax=12.5mm so it refers to one way maximum excursion. Does that mean you should try to design the enclosure not to exceed 12.5mm + 10% or the full excursion 25mm + 10%?

 

[rabbitz]

Post 33

Damo

It's been said plenty of times before on this forum, but simulations are just that.... simulations and do not relate 100% to the real world. Speaker building is 5% software and 95% black art, hard work and testing.

No matter what driver is used whether it be Peerless or Shiva or whatever, it has to be used in application it was designed for such as:
Box type...... sealed , vented, PR
Box size...... huge or small
Impedance considerations for amplifier load.

All these have to match or it's 🙁

It's probably been posted before but one of the best sealed designs for the 12" XLS has to be the Thor and he's no idiot.

You will find a large majority of sealed subs use some type of equalisation and have a look at the Linkwitz Transformer (I've never used one as I do vented) as it is supposed to work very well.

Details of the circuit can be sound at ESP and see project 71.... have a read.

There's been arguements on the effects of group delay at very low frequencies and I'm not going to start one here 😉


Cheers 😉

 

[rabbitz]

Did some research. Looks like XXLS is 50mm (total) excursion and the XLS is 25mm. Still pretty impressive...

Mark

They both have the same xmax.
h = 33mm
hg = 8mm
xmax = (33-8)/2 = 12.5mm one way, 25mm overall.

 

[damo21]

You will find a large majority of sealed subs use some type of equalisation and have a look at the Linkwitz Transformer (I've never used one as I do vented) as it is supposed to work very well.

But I thought equalisation on sealed subs just makes them worse, isn't that the whole point of removing bass boost from a plate amp to give a sealed box tighter bass? (ie not just to offset the room gain)

According to Paul's wiki:
However, if you eq a sealed subwoofer to achieve the same response, the GD will be the same (as a vented). Hence by using a equalised sealed box what you have gained is merely a smaller subwoofer with 6db less output and higher distortion. It may not sound tighter when the response is the same.