Hello
Do you guys have some suggestions on passive studio monitors? i currently have Presonus Eris E8, they are quite good i would say (for the price) but its time to upgrade
i wanna go passive because, well i might be wrong but i hope for better quality amps that way, tho im unsure if one amp per chassi in active speakers is better/worse then a passive crossover
i definitely wanna go lower without sub then the Eris E8 which hit around 40hz, my goal is atleast 30hz or even lower
what you think of these ? https://inclinedfidelity.com/product/sbh-7s-pair/ ... they seem quite well priced with seas tweeter and carbon fiber woofer + passive radiator
Do you guys have some suggestions on passive studio monitors? i currently have Presonus Eris E8, they are quite good i would say (for the price) but its time to upgrade
i wanna go passive because, well i might be wrong but i hope for better quality amps that way, tho im unsure if one amp per chassi in active speakers is better/worse then a passive crossover
i definitely wanna go lower without sub then the Eris E8 which hit around 40hz, my goal is atleast 30hz or even lower
what you think of these ? https://inclinedfidelity.com/product/sbh-7s-pair/ ... they seem quite well priced with seas tweeter and carbon fiber woofer + passive radiator
Ignoring some of the twaddle in the link, looks reasonable enough. I can't honestly say I'm a big fan of the Epique's motor design, but if you want a compact passive design that goes low, there aren't many affordable alternatives.
Everything about the speakers looked ok until I got to the 81db sensitivity! That is very very low. It will take 10 watts to get where a more efficient speaker gets with one watt.
How big can you go size wise?
How big can you go size wise?
That Eqique woofer may go low, but not loud low and will be relative high distortion when tuned that low. A 7" cone with 14mm xmax will give a lot of IMD i think. I don't know that speaker brand, but it does not look that trustworthy that i would buy it without confirmation by neutral measurments.
Good speakers that can do what you want cost a lot, are mostly active and are often big. Then i'm talking about speakes like the Kii Audio Three BXT, Neumann KH420, the JBL 4367 or M2 or the Genelec 8361. The JBL 4367 is actually the only passive crossover monitor that can do that with low distortion and a neutral response that i know, all the others use an active crossovers.
It's much easier and cheaper to make a pair of monitors that don't go that low and add a dedicated subwoofer. And it will be much cheaper to buy also than those I mentioned above. And for studio monitors, a dsp is a much better choice than passive i think, as neutrality of tone is mandatory, what is very hard to do and expensive with passive filters.
Good speakers that can do what you want cost a lot, are mostly active and are often big. Then i'm talking about speakes like the Kii Audio Three BXT, Neumann KH420, the JBL 4367 or M2 or the Genelec 8361. The JBL 4367 is actually the only passive crossover monitor that can do that with low distortion and a neutral response that i know, all the others use an active crossovers.
It's much easier and cheaper to make a pair of monitors that don't go that low and add a dedicated subwoofer. And it will be much cheaper to buy also than those I mentioned above. And for studio monitors, a dsp is a much better choice than passive i think, as neutrality of tone is mandatory, what is very hard to do and expensive with passive filters.
Dayton is generally quite trustworthy as far as data goes, so that's not a big issue. I don't much care for the Epique motor design myself -you can see why on the impedance curve- or that huge roll surround, but for limited range the latter isn't bad. Since it's a compact woofer / borderline subwoofer, IMD (FMD really) shouldn't really be an issue since it's crossing to that Seas tweeter at just over 1.5KHz; inferring from the information provided, it's likely asymmetric LR4 acoustic. With a PBR, excursion should be kept in check anyway -within relative context of what it is (if minimal travel is the objective, a pair of 15in woofers per channel are your friend 😉 ).
yes this shocked me too, tho i was kinda impressed by the 27hz@-3db
and i think the passive radiator is a good thing too instead of bassreflex...
i really dont like bassreflex to be honest, i closed the ports of my current ones and its really audible how "loose" the low end becomes compared to closed (not just the low end but i think male voices too for example)
what wouldnt be a problem is measuring the speakers and adding a light EQ to them (if they are not "perfect") with linear phase FIR filters
im so used to stereo bass that its hard for me to think about a additional subwoofer
i even tested this to make sure recently, if i use a highpass on for example the left speaker and boost the right speaker by 3db under the high pass frequency... its not "directly" audible but you can actually feel that the "pressure" just comes from the right side instead of in "front of you"
also it sounds much more balanced, i think you can even hear that the room gets "pressurized" evenly with 2 subwoofers instead of one
this fact... and the fact that building a huge subwoofer (or even 2) would cost much more additionally, i think its much more wise with spending the combined money (studio monitors + 1 or 2 subwoofers) into just one good pair of studio monitors that can actually play quite low
im willing to spend around 3k on (new) studio monitors, which might be 2k if i buy used depending on the offers
the neumann kh420 is a bit out of budget but i definitely consider this one currently: https://www.thomann.de/de/neumann_kh_310_a_left.htm but it doesnt go much lower than my current ones (well its a bit ... 35hz@-10db vs 34hz@-3db)
i might even do a little bit of EQ to get more bass output instead of SPL ... this worked kinda well with my current ones too (not like a subwoofer but "better" then stock without much additional distortion)
Edit: this video is gold for a comparison
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Hoffman's iron law. 😉 Otherwise known as a law of physics -if you want that sort of LF extension out of a relative pint-pot, sensitivity (as in the lack thereof) is the price you pay. The raw driver, assuming the twin coils are in series, is rated at 83.3dB 1m/2.83v & assuming the mildly rising LF response is 'real' (which I suspect it is knowing Dayton) then the 81dB rating for the speaker would seem reasonable. The PBR also makes sense since in that kind of box size, a regular vent would either have a very narrow cross section, increasing potential flow-noise, or be unacceptably long, with the likelihood of excessive self-harmonic modes. Situations like that, with acoustically small boxes tuned low, are the primary role for passive radiators.
the designer talks about the design in some youtube videos (the channel is called "The Social Club")
passive radiators are basicly improved bassreflex ports (or lets say between closed and vented boxes regarding precision)
tho what bothers me a bit is the huge xmax... well its good for low bass... but what if 20hz and 1500hz are playing at the same time, i dont think huge xmax is that great in this case
he also seems to really like the seas tweeter
well i dont know that much about speaker designs (i just know that i definitely prefer closed over ported) and i kinda found him randomly on youtube while searching for studio monitors but the design looks kinda nice i would say, specially for the price (tho there is 150$ worldwide shipping and i need to pay taxes on top because i live in EU) so this particular speaker probably ends up being around 2000 to 2200 for me
They aren't 'improved vented ports' -they basically are what they are & have their own balance of advantages and disadvantages. As noted, their primary value is in situations where you have an acoustically small box tuned low, where vent dimensions can be problematic. GD for example can be excessive in other cases, so it's basically about selecting what compromises you're willing to work with. As for 'precision' -depends exactly what is meant.
Xmax is simply an attempt to describe the linear operating range of the motor (and there's no consistency of method for generating that number) -it doesn't mean the driver is reaching those sort of excursions all the time -if you're driving it to those extremes, you need a bigger driver. You can't cheat physics or beat cubic capacity (or radiating area in this case). A driver of the same size, higher sensitivity & lower rated Xmax will not have a different level of travel for the same SPL -it just needs less power to achieve it. Whether you need the higher sensitivity and / or prefer less travel is up to you. Assuming LR4 @ 1.5KHz, the driver is -6dB down at that point, & will be rolling off from roughly 1KHz, so issues with FMD shouldn't be significant for a monitor unless you're really pushing it. As noted, I'm not a huge fan of the Epique myself but if you want that sort of LF extension in a small box then it's one of the few options available.
The Seas prestige range tweeters (especially the metal domes) have been high quality performers for 2+ decades & often superior to many more expensive units. There are good alternatives now but they're still excellent performers of their type & I'd certainly take them over many others.
Xmax is simply an attempt to describe the linear operating range of the motor (and there's no consistency of method for generating that number) -it doesn't mean the driver is reaching those sort of excursions all the time -if you're driving it to those extremes, you need a bigger driver. You can't cheat physics or beat cubic capacity (or radiating area in this case). A driver of the same size, higher sensitivity & lower rated Xmax will not have a different level of travel for the same SPL -it just needs less power to achieve it. Whether you need the higher sensitivity and / or prefer less travel is up to you. Assuming LR4 @ 1.5KHz, the driver is -6dB down at that point, & will be rolling off from roughly 1KHz, so issues with FMD shouldn't be significant for a monitor unless you're really pushing it. As noted, I'm not a huge fan of the Epique myself but if you want that sort of LF extension in a small box then it's one of the few options available.
The Seas prestige range tweeters (especially the metal domes) have been high quality performers for 2+ decades & often superior to many more expensive units. There are good alternatives now but they're still excellent performers of their type & I'd certainly take them over many others.
The 310 is an old analog design, going back to the Klein & Hummel O310, that was so good it's still top of the line. Neumann bought K&H but did change little on that design. So no DSP.
The 310 needs a subwoofer to go where you want it, eq'ing the woofer will raise distortion fast, and below 40Hz distortion is already high on this design (never intended to go that low). You can see some Kippel measurments of this one here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...neumann-kh-310a-review-powered-monitor.17723/
Idealy this one is coupled to the KH750DSP sub (one on each side) with Neumanns MA-1 dsp system. And in your case, i would rather go for the KH120 MKII with the KH750DSP (one on each side) and MA-1. That will fit your budget better and should be enough for nearfield listening. And it will be only slightly more expensive than the KH310 without subs.
And i agree with Scott, seas tweeters are vey often great tweeters, they only got the problem that SB acoustics are as great and cheaper... But from the legendaric Seas H087 (1968) to the actual lineup, they were great tweeters. And i also don't like the Epique series, the Dayton RS180-4 is a much better 7" woofer than the one used here (but does not go that low) for a 2 way speaker and is a lot cheaper. So i see no use for this one to be honest.
this sounds like a good option too i guess, maybe even superior because bass is handled by a seperate driver
but if we talk KH120 then there are a whole lot more options again, i probably need todo some searching in this case
maybe someone knows more... i wrote above that i tried stereo bass vs mono bass and that pressure is actually felt from the direction the subwoofer stands.... what about a single subwoofer in the middle? (tho from what i remember this isnt really recommended roomaccoustics wise)
i would like to stay in the presonus eris e8 ballpark, i think they are also similar sized to Kh310
Hmm, 15.12" h x 9.84" w x 11.77" d = 1.013 ft^3/28.685 L gross x ~ 0.75 = ~0.76 ft^3/21.52 L net Vs Dayton RS180-4's ~21.2 L Vas = a near enough max flat sealed alignment/54 Hz Fc.
Per attached, ~20 L = 0.2% eff/30 Hz = ~85 dB Vs the woofer's mid band ~89 dB spl = ~ -4 dB/Fb, so can be a little more/less depending on how much net Vb available and not too much to boost from an SQ POV.
Per attached, ~20 L = 0.2% eff/30 Hz = ~85 dB Vs the woofer's mid band ~89 dB spl = ~ -4 dB/Fb, so can be a little more/less depending on how much net Vb available and not too much to boost from an SQ POV.
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You can tune it a lot lower in a reflex, 30Hz is easely doable in a 32L reflex. If you would use a passive radiator you can probally make it smaller and go as low (but i don't like passive radiators). But I'm going 3 way with a planned build, that was delayed due to all kind of reasons...
This is just a very quick recreation of the sim in WinISD (i checked it in the original design in other sim software also with almost the same result) It won't go very loud off course (a 7" woofer is limited in that), but 100dB with one speaker (103dB for a pair) should be more than good enough for nearfield. Crossover will take some of that, but still good enough. The Epique won't do that on it's own.
But i will use a subwoofer, so i choose closed construction and cross arround 90 to 100Hz, and will make a sealed or a Ripole subwoofer for under my desk. I plan to use an SB26ADC tweeter, but the Seas mentioned above could also be used i think.
This is just a very quick recreation of the sim in WinISD (i checked it in the original design in other sim software also with almost the same result) It won't go very loud off course (a 7" woofer is limited in that), but 100dB with one speaker (103dB for a pair) should be more than good enough for nearfield. Crossover will take some of that, but still good enough. The Epique won't do that on it's own.
But i will use a subwoofer, so i choose closed construction and cross arround 90 to 100Hz, and will make a sealed or a Ripole subwoofer for under my desk. I plan to use an SB26ADC tweeter, but the Seas mentioned above could also be used i think.
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I have the dynaudio bm15a I think these are much better than the active version.these would have to be picked up used as discontinued . they need a lot of power to come to life I use several hundred watts . smaller amps will sound strained . i also like the avi neunutron 3s for a smaller cheaper choice also discontinued these are probly the nicest sound I've heard at home .
. the wilmslow audio based on a volt 8inch unit should be good . heard an active quested model with a volt midbass and it sas nice and flat not harsh at all .not the strongest deepest bass .