I've build the A40 with lambda BJT from german supplier (http://www.electronicpool.de/en/index.html).
While setting the bias with R11 i wondered how do one knows that the bias is correctly set up ?
Mr Nelson Pass writes
- 1.5A per PMD trail (so 0.75A per transistor), p. 70 of the a40.pdf file on passdiy
- as well as to measure 1 volt (DC?) between Q7 and Q9.
Measuring 1 volt get 0.72 (1.44 for the trail)
An other article (http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/esantane/movies/a40.html) states 0.8A per ransistor (so 1.6 per trail). Is there a difference (except the heat).
What shall be the target value ?
What does trigger the DC offset ? I have 40mV is that acceptable ?
While setting the bias with R11 i wondered how do one knows that the bias is correctly set up ?
Mr Nelson Pass writes
- 1.5A per PMD trail (so 0.75A per transistor), p. 70 of the a40.pdf file on passdiy
- as well as to measure 1 volt (DC?) between Q7 and Q9.
Measuring 1 volt get 0.72 (1.44 for the trail)
An other article (http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/esantane/movies/a40.html) states 0.8A per ransistor (so 1.6 per trail). Is there a difference (except the heat).
What shall be the target value ?
What does trigger the DC offset ? I have 40mV is that acceptable ?
Trimming DC offset
Thanks for your answer, only to make sure. to adjust the resistor value OFF colector of Q1 in order to reduce the DC offset means adjusting the value of R6 which is currently of 680ohms ? Is it a correct understanding ?
Small question : A40 is driving a home made loudspeaker based on 4 fostex motors with a 103db w/m, so fairly sensitive - which is good because no need of lots of power -. At the start of the amplifier they is a slight 'bump' in the loudspeaker (i connected another pair 93db w/m nothing can be heard). Its there a way to avoid this 'bump'
Regards
Thanks for your answer, only to make sure. to adjust the resistor value OFF colector of Q1 in order to reduce the DC offset means adjusting the value of R6 which is currently of 680ohms ? Is it a correct understanding ?
Small question : A40 is driving a home made loudspeaker based on 4 fostex motors with a 103db w/m, so fairly sensitive - which is good because no need of lots of power -. At the start of the amplifier they is a slight 'bump' in the loudspeaker (i connected another pair 93db w/m nothing can be heard). Its there a way to avoid this 'bump'
Regards
Pass DIY Addict
Joined 2000
Paid Member
That's my web page that you've referenced above. At the bottom of this page, I have listed a number of different (but very close) bias points that I experimented with. These differences are pretty small, and make only minor changes in power consumption and heat dissipation. The main reason that I tweaked this a little was to achieve a bias setting that is closer to Nelson's article, since I used different transistors.
I did not detect any changes in sound quality as a result of the different bias levels.
Enjoy your new amp!
Eric
I did not detect any changes in sound quality as a result of the different bias levels.
Enjoy your new amp!
Eric
BIas
Thanks Mr Pass the advise cured the problem. I still have a slight 'bump' in the loudspeakers at the amp start. Can that be cured ?
Your web site (passlabs, passdiy and firstwatt are real pleasure (or treasure) to read for non expert.
Thanks to Eric, the article was indeed usefull.
Regards
Thanks Mr Pass the advise cured the problem. I still have a slight 'bump' in the loudspeakers at the amp start. Can that be cured ?
Your web site (passlabs, passdiy and firstwatt are real pleasure (or treasure) to read for non expert.
Thanks to Eric, the article was indeed usefull.
Regards
Pass DIY Addict
Joined 2000
Paid Member
I don't recall if my amp has a bump at turn on or not... Either it is very small and I've gotten used to it, or its not there - I'll check tonight. One thing that might help is an inrush thermistor on the power supply. I think that Nelson has recommended a CL-60 for this or other of his amps...
Eric
Eric
cl60 works fine in A40
Ihave an A-40 that has run daily for years.
it has a cl-60 inrush limiter with around 200,00 uf of caps.
it is essential ! you will smoke your power switch and probably the bridge rectifiers as well
It would be interseting to know what output transistors everyone else has used (succesfully of course)
mine has motorola 2N6051 and 2N6058
with the bias adjusted to about 1.5 amps.
Ihave an A-40 that has run daily for years.
it has a cl-60 inrush limiter with around 200,00 uf of caps.
it is essential ! you will smoke your power switch and probably the bridge rectifiers as well
It would be interseting to know what output transistors everyone else has used (succesfully of course)
mine has motorola 2N6051 and 2N6058
with the bias adjusted to about 1.5 amps.
Pass DIY Addict
Joined 2000
Paid Member
There is a very small turn-on thump with my a40 - small enough that it doesn't bother me in any way. The thump might be less pronounced because I'm running a small set of bookshelf speakers that don't have a great deal of bass output. With a more "full range" speaker, the thump *might* be a little more prevalent, but I don't know.
I have about 240,000uF of caps for both channels together, but do not have a thermistor installed. I suspect if I installed a thermistor, it would solve the small power on thump and also prevent the momentary dip in the room lights that happens at power-on. My a40 has been running for about 3 years...
Eric
Edit to add: I'm running MJ11015 and MJ11016 transistors from On-Semi in my output stage. If you substitute this part only, the bias comes out very slightly low compared to what Nelson describes in the article. I've adjusted R11 a little to bump the bias back to where it is specified in the article.
I have about 240,000uF of caps for both channels together, but do not have a thermistor installed. I suspect if I installed a thermistor, it would solve the small power on thump and also prevent the momentary dip in the room lights that happens at power-on. My a40 has been running for about 3 years...
Eric
Edit to add: I'm running MJ11015 and MJ11016 transistors from On-Semi in my output stage. If you substitute this part only, the bias comes out very slightly low compared to what Nelson describes in the article. I've adjusted R11 a little to bump the bias back to where it is specified in the article.
In rush termistor
Quote
it has a cl-60 inrush limiter with around 200,00 uf of caps.
it is essential ! you will smoke your power switch and probably the bridge rectifiers as well
Unquote
Sorry for my ignorance. What is a CL 60 inrush limiter ? Can it be bought somewhere ? Thanks for the kind advise
Quote
it has a cl-60 inrush limiter with around 200,00 uf of caps.
it is essential ! you will smoke your power switch and probably the bridge rectifiers as well
Unquote
Sorry for my ignorance. What is a CL 60 inrush limiter ? Can it be bought somewhere ? Thanks for the kind advise
Re: In rush termistor
It is a NTC thermistor.
It has a resistance when it is cold, resisting current flow.
But, getting warm, it loses the resistance, allowing the current flow.
Any make of around 10ohms/5A type is considered useful.
herodote said:What is a CL 60 inrush limiter ?
It is a NTC thermistor.
It has a resistance when it is cold, resisting current flow.
But, getting warm, it loses the resistance, allowing the current flow.
Any make of around 10ohms/5A type is considered useful.
Nelson Pass said:If you put a large cap across the bias transistor and reversed
diodes from the + and - of that cap to the output it will tend to
kill the turn on thump.
Another homework from Papa. . .
Hey, Zen, where are you? We need to do groupwork.
My first question:
C13 is already there across the bias transistor. Still, need additional cap across it as C13 is too small?
Babowana said:
Another homework from Papa. . .
Hey, Zen, where are you? We need to do groupwork.
sorry-ZM is this dayzzz in serious aka..........
no time and energy for puzzles ,unfortunately
it'll be better ,soon......
Bias & kill the turn on thump.
When I measure the DC while starting the A40 amp it send to the loudspeakers a 380mV which then stabilize at 01mV
Could it be possible to know a bit more about what to do with the bias transistor (Q6) how to set up - as suggested by Nelson Pass - a large car (what value) and how to set up the diode. I don't understand how to connect the cap and the diode. Explanation would be welcome
I would like to understand N. Pass statement
If you put a large cap across the bias transistor and reversed
diodes from the + and - of that cap to the output it will tend to
kill the turn on thump.
When I measure the DC while starting the A40 amp it send to the loudspeakers a 380mV which then stabilize at 01mV
Could it be possible to know a bit more about what to do with the bias transistor (Q6) how to set up - as suggested by Nelson Pass - a large car (what value) and how to set up the diode. I don't understand how to connect the cap and the diode. Explanation would be welcome
I would like to understand N. Pass statement
If you put a large cap across the bias transistor and reversed
diodes from the + and - of that cap to the output it will tend to
kill the turn on thump.
Zen Mod said:sorry-ZM is this dayzzz in serious aka..........
no time and energy for puzzles ,unfortunately
it'll be better ,soon......
O, wish you being fine soon. . .
Bias & kill the turn on thump.
Sorry I should have been more factual about the whole story.
I had a DC offset of 40mV on both channel but no turn on thump. After adjusting resistor off collector Q1 (R6 - 680Ohms) the DC got to 1mV. I did make sure with R11 the bias of Q7+Q8 or (Q9,Q10) would stay at 1.5A. A turn on bump appeared. It measures 380mV at the start of the amplifier and then the DC settles at 1mV. Strangely the transformer is doing some hum... (new)
How do you wire a NTC thermistor ? Does is goes in serie on the primary input (220V) of transformer or between the secondary and the caps ?
Sorry I should have been more factual about the whole story.
I had a DC offset of 40mV on both channel but no turn on thump. After adjusting resistor off collector Q1 (R6 - 680Ohms) the DC got to 1mV. I did make sure with R11 the bias of Q7+Q8 or (Q9,Q10) would stay at 1.5A. A turn on bump appeared. It measures 380mV at the start of the amplifier and then the DC settles at 1mV. Strangely the transformer is doing some hum... (new)
How do you wire a NTC thermistor ? Does is goes in serie on the primary input (220V) of transformer or between the secondary and the caps ?
Re: Bias & kill the turn on thump.
Yes.
herodote said:Does is goes in serie on the primary input (220V) of transformer?
Yes.
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