That is where i started when i wanted to do colours. I used ink originally for black, but black ink is really dark dark blue. And the black food colouring is an ugly green.
These work for me so i haven’t gone further, but i am sure there are lots of things you could use.
dave
Sort of. I use something Julian Vereker told me over a beer… “a hifi has to be considered an information processing system and you want to lose as little information as possible”.
We use “measures” have how much info a treated driver does compared to a stock driver. If you know what to listen for it becomes very obvious. And when you kill an annoying resonance that is also usually quite obvious.
And T/S and impedance curves are taken a lot.
dave
They can certainly help. Resonances would show up in FR measurements, have you never been tempted to test, even for the sake of curiosity? You don't have to tell anyone the results
An annoying resonance wouldn't require measurement, granted, but it's possible the damping could effect the FR elsewhere that's not so easy to hear but has a detrimental effect on overall sound. I'm just saying measuring is a tool I think you should also use to get the best results
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Good black colour is hard to get indeed and doubly so on speaker cones, because any "paint" alters cone mass and damping, big time.
Black "dyes" of any kind are poor quality, not-really-black as you found out and to boot, not stable; you need a particle based colouring instead.
Absolute best is carbon black, the real one, purified version of soot collected inside chimneys and Diesel engine exhaust pipes to name a few sources.
Very light and fluffy.
Also stable under any chemical or UV attack ... hard to degrade what is already as simple a molecule as can be.
Now lately it´s common for chemical supply houses to offer as Carbon Black a completely different product: very finely ground Black Ferrite, which is fine as colourig in, say, ceramics or plastic ... but weighs 10X as much.
Properly said: has literally 10X higher density, which adds unexpected weight to speaker cone.
Even worse if you cover cone with a "paint" which besides the pigment weight also adds that of the paint base carrying it.
Plus an "acrylic" type paint, for better or for worse, will add damping to cone; so in a nutshell, if you want a black cone, best and least intrusive is to add a small amount of pure "real" carbon black to cone paste formulation.
Which by the way is the reason black cones are so popular.
Damping certainly, how much mass is added depends on how much “dope” you add. Thousands of measures have shown that mass added in my process does not significantly effect the mass… drivers still fall into the same statistical spread as factory variations.
dave
The blackest black I’ve used in my wood turning is Speedball Super Black India Ink. Applied to the inside of a hollow vessel it will make it appear bottomless. It is a carbon black (or lampblack) but it also contains shellac so it dries quickly. I’ve never tried it on speaker cones though so I can’t comment as to how much weight it adds.
When I changed the wings of these JBL speakers that looked very ugly, apply 2 coats of Chinese ink, (yes, the one from the school !) it has good covering power and there is no significant base emulsion of the pigments, in addition the trick is to dry it simultaneously while applying with a brush, using a hair dryer at low temperature and with continuous movements.
I suppose that in a standard black cone of paper a similar result would be obtained, the secret is not to allow the paint to wet it and deform it accordingly.
It was 8 years ago and they still look flawless.
I suppose that in a standard black cone of paper a similar result would be obtained, the secret is not to allow the paint to wet it and deform it accordingly.
It was 8 years ago and they still look flawless.
Attachments
I think the biggest part of the mass of the cone is actually the voice coil and bobbin for paper cones.
Oon
Dampening voice coil formers??
Speaking of voice coil/bobbins....
Has anyone tried this?
What to use??
I'll explain why I'm asking... because it could be illuminating.
I recently had the following experience:
A pair of EV LS-8 Wolverines..... one I got hold of had voice coil rub..
Since it was a throw away, I removed the whizzer and dust cap to attempt repair......
After listening to them for a couple of weeks... coil rub aside... I couldn't tolerate the shouty-screech..
(incidentally, the repair was successful.. I now have a working speaker.... former was out of round)
While fumbling around immediately after whizzer/cap removal, my finger accidentally "THWACKED" the inside of the coil former fairly hard..
WOW! I was shocked at the high amplitude narrow band resonance that resulted!!!
It reverberated all through the cone... transmitted that very nasty resonance all through the cone which amplified it!
This led me to think....
I wonder about dampening the coil former itself?!?!
Obviously NOT down where the windings are in/near the gap... but perhaps the uppermost portion of the former?
BTW: The former (on that version) is fiberglass!!
It seems to me... to get rid of that nasty "screech".. better to start with the former rather than chasing the demon by dampening parts of the cone etc...
At least to start with.
Incidentally, and not to go into to much detail on this particular project..
I then added a "phase plug".. (balsa rocket nose cone).. about an 85% improvement over unmodified...
I then added a fluffy-elastic hair tie.. (first thing that came to hand) and about another 5% improvement.
Still need more though!!
I also did this to another driver... one that has a tear in the cone, repaired with a tiny piece of masking tape... (obviously not for long term listening, but just to have a pair to experiment with)
An interesting side note about these drivers:
What I believe is a later model... (the greenish baskets with green badge on rear) has
both an aluminized-paper former and conventional round wire coil... VS: the fiberglass former and edge-wound coil of the original, which it's known for.
The paper/round wire version is a fair amount less resonant, and overall the speaker sounds tamer in the offensive region FWIW.
Thoughts on this most welcome!!
Speaking of voice coil/bobbins....
Has anyone tried this?
What to use??
I'll explain why I'm asking... because it could be illuminating.
I recently had the following experience:
A pair of EV LS-8 Wolverines..... one I got hold of had voice coil rub..
Since it was a throw away, I removed the whizzer and dust cap to attempt repair......
After listening to them for a couple of weeks... coil rub aside... I couldn't tolerate the shouty-screech..
(incidentally, the repair was successful.. I now have a working speaker.... former was out of round)
While fumbling around immediately after whizzer/cap removal, my finger accidentally "THWACKED" the inside of the coil former fairly hard..
WOW! I was shocked at the high amplitude narrow band resonance that resulted!!!
It reverberated all through the cone... transmitted that very nasty resonance all through the cone which amplified it!
This led me to think....
I wonder about dampening the coil former itself?!?!
Obviously NOT down where the windings are in/near the gap... but perhaps the uppermost portion of the former?
BTW: The former (on that version) is fiberglass!!
It seems to me... to get rid of that nasty "screech".. better to start with the former rather than chasing the demon by dampening parts of the cone etc...
At least to start with.
Incidentally, and not to go into to much detail on this particular project..
I then added a "phase plug".. (balsa rocket nose cone).. about an 85% improvement over unmodified...
I then added a fluffy-elastic hair tie.. (first thing that came to hand) and about another 5% improvement.
Still need more though!!
I also did this to another driver... one that has a tear in the cone, repaired with a tiny piece of masking tape... (obviously not for long term listening, but just to have a pair to experiment with)
An interesting side note about these drivers:
What I believe is a later model... (the greenish baskets with green badge on rear) has
both an aluminized-paper former and conventional round wire coil... VS: the fiberglass former and edge-wound coil of the original, which it's known for.
The paper/round wire version is a fair amount less resonant, and overall the speaker sounds tamer in the offensive region FWIW.
Thoughts on this most welcome!!
Probably. No mention of what it is ...
LTS 50 | Visaton
Can't seem find the datasheet anymore.
But I found this interesting post.
VisatonLTS50coating a fullrange driver
VisatonLTS50coating a fullrange driver
Oon
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GREAT to know Dave! Thanks!
Er... how thick of a coating??
The former sticks up from the cone quite a bit.. 1/8" maybe...
Wondering if i should use some foam tape there ALSO?
But on the inside or outside??
Same for the coating... inside/outside or both??
No more whizzer on these... but if I get another pair to play around with, I'll leave them, just remove the caps and do the other mods....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah... I noticed the (conveniently) missing data sheet.... having just been to the page..
The Mouser link to it tipped me off......
I wonder why it would suddenly be omitted, after once being there........
Thanks for the link Oon!
Er... how thick of a coating??
The former sticks up from the cone quite a bit.. 1/8" maybe...
Wondering if i should use some foam tape there ALSO?
But on the inside or outside??
Same for the coating... inside/outside or both??
No more whizzer on these... but if I get another pair to play around with, I'll leave them, just remove the caps and do the other mods....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah... I noticed the (conveniently) missing data sheet.... having just been to the page..
The Mouser link to it tipped me off......
I wonder why it would suddenly be omitted, after once being there........
Thanks for the link Oon!
There is another one on Lcao.... but it is uuuuugly...
Person claims it works though....
https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=9272.15
Oon
Person claims it works though....
https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=9272.15
Oon
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