jkeny said:
I believe that the Panasonic's power supply limits its ability to drive large woofers and low impedances. It seemed to struggle driving 12" Dayton woofers even when connected directly.
It sounded OK with my NHT ST4's, but better on 2-way CS 1.2 Thiels.
I believe the Panny would be at its best with a high impedance, high efficiency full range drivers.
The Panasonics are good value for a home theater receiver. I paid $300 USD for them from onecall.
My current speakers are
Scanspeak 6600
Dayton RS52 or Vifa XG18
Scanspeak 8" kevlar 21/8554 ported or Scanspeak 8" Revelator paper.
Benchmark DAC1
Daveis said:
The Panny is a fabulous amp for high sensitivity pure paper setups and it drives large (pro) woofers very well. 4 Ohm aren´t a problem either, as long as the sensitivity is high. I even prefer it to the t-amp in such a setup. I tried it with late sixties speakers with horn tweeter, and here the T-amp was clearly ahead. Is the Panny too harsh, or is the tweeter bad and the T-amp more forgiving, I don´t know.
As dwk123 suggested I might be better off going for an eval board even though the price of $299 - $399 is a lot worse for you guys compared to the panny for $170, for me it's way better than the $750 price here. (You see it always comes down to bang for buck really!)
Has anybody got experience with the TI eval boards (ChuckT you mentioned it) - how much extra needs to be added to get a fully working amp? PS voltage control for instance?
Which board would you guys suggest?
Edit: Unfortunately, both of my speakers are low sensitivity, Rogers & Jordans but the Rogers are 15ohm versions so maybe some synergy there with the panny?
Has anybody got experience with the TI eval boards (ChuckT you mentioned it) - how much extra needs to be added to get a fully working amp? PS voltage control for instance?
Which board would you guys suggest?
Edit: Unfortunately, both of my speakers are low sensitivity, Rogers & Jordans but the Rogers are 15ohm versions so maybe some synergy there with the panny?
jkeny,
don't get the Ti Eval board. It is an older purepath chip, can not be bridged (very important), no remote, no other function.
It won't be enough to drive your Jordan, IMO.
It would be better to get the XR55 or XR59 and mod the heck out of it.
You might want to try ebay, some seller might be willing to ship oversea.
don't get the Ti Eval board. It is an older purepath chip, can not be bridged (very important), no remote, no other function.
It won't be enough to drive your Jordan, IMO.
It would be better to get the XR55 or XR59 and mod the heck out of it.
You might want to try ebay, some seller might be willing to ship oversea.
Did anybody around here try the HDMI 1.3a audio option, coming with the newer models (e.g. XR700) and compared it to SPDIF.
I heard also of people who are using one Panasonic amp per chanel in a fully active setup. Meaning a single XR-55 unit for tweeters, mids and lows. Of course you'd need 3 digital outs on
the PC (e.g. RME card).
I heard also of people who are using one Panasonic amp per chanel in a fully active setup. Meaning a single XR-55 unit for tweeters, mids and lows. Of course you'd need 3 digital outs on
the PC (e.g. RME card).
soundcheck said:
I am one of those folks that used 3 Panasonic's each using just two channels and an RME sound card.
If all three receivers are stacked on top of each other, the remote volume control tracks pretty well. You can even set the volume differently on each to account for different sensitivity of drivers.
Of course, if the volume gets off you have to get up out of your chair and fix it.
jkeny said:
Talking about Panasonic AMPs is not really DIY either.
It just comes down to tweak the gear.
We talked about the HDMI issue at the Linux audio thread I am running. The whole "full digital" thing made me rethinking my chain when I listened first time to a full fledged digital setup from Uli Brueggemann ( founder of acourate - the FIR filter generator ) He is running Linux/brutefir/RME/3*TAct.
I always thought I have quite a good transient response in my system - since my whole chain is fully integrated ( just one cap and no connectors , no preamp/pot, in the entire signal chain).
But listening to his chain was nothing less then a shock to me.
Unfortunately the only real DIY approach using the TI TAS 5518 I've seen so far is the one from KOON over here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91148
The DIY hype around these chips has not started yet - I guess.
Agreed, but the objective is ultimately to listen to well reproduced music, so whatever route gets you there..... I've got too many unfinished diy audio projects that promise better sound & I just wanted to get something that is pretty good, finished & I can listen to music for a while. Guess I'm reaching burn-out in diy audio!
I like your idea of Sapphire HD card linked to XR amp through hdmi - did you get any further with this?
One problem I see is the PC being in the same room as the music (long hdmi cables are not a great idea & expensive) but I guess it might be easier to solve this (silent PC & decent casing) than the many technical obstacles besetting a "full" diy route
Edit: hdmi also comes with the lesser priced SA-XR59 which is the model I can get on 10 day trial ( on-line retailer "cool-off" period) from here: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=334420&view=detailed#ProductTabs
I might just wait & get a Sapphire card first to try it during this 10 day trial
Would a PC music player be capable of outputting digital through this setup though?
This is the music server I am using now with 500G HD.
http://www.tvix.co.kr/Eng/products/HDM4000.aspx
Very simple solution and very good digital out quality.
I don't know why not more people use it and insist on using a PC which is much more complicated and nosier.
The video is very good too. Beats my philips dvd.
I mod the digital out to BNC for further improvement.
Remove the fan and stick on some heaksink on the chips.
The only noise is from the spinning HD.
I took the HD out of the box too. As I think the resonance from spinning HD is really bad for digital.
http://www.tvix.co.kr/Eng/products/HDM4000.aspx
Very simple solution and very good digital out quality.
I don't know why not more people use it and insist on using a PC which is much more complicated and nosier.
The video is very good too. Beats my philips dvd.
I mod the digital out to BNC for further improvement.
Remove the fan and stick on some heaksink on the chips.
The only noise is from the spinning HD.
I took the HD out of the box too. As I think the resonance from spinning HD is really bad for digital.
Hi chuck-t, I have a dreambox which is a STB with spdif out and also connects via LAN cable to server - so I can play back stored music/video - only problem is that the simplistic playback interface uses the TV to select by directory/file structure. I don't know how good the SPDIF out is? It's a pity it has no hdmi out!
soundcheck, reading up on these Radeon cards, there seems to be some issues with sound delivery over hdmi not working or audio passthrough only working for the 2600 card. Do you know any more about this?
soundcheck, reading up on these Radeon cards, there seems to be some issues with sound delivery over hdmi not working or audio passthrough only working for the 2600 card. Do you know any more about this?
jkeny said:
From my relatively brief research, it seems that HDMI audio out of a PC is bleeding-edge stuff, and there are lots of problems at the moment. It's a bit tough to tell though, since most of the discussion is in the context of playing HD video content, and so HDCP comes into play. Not many folks seem to be trying 'regular' multichannel audio use.
Over at AVSforum, it looks like there are sporadic success stories with the new intel G35 based motherboards, but also lots of folks that can't get much more than stereo to work. I haven't gotten a read on the state of Radeon support, though.
Azuntech has announced and shown at CES an HDMI add-on for one of their soundcards, which may be a better fit for audio-only applications (although due to riding on the pixel clock, you'll probably need a display configured in some fashion for HDMI audio to work at all). Unfortunately, this isn't out until Q2.
I also didn't turn up much on Linux support. Some indicators that there is some level of activity, but I haven't found much specific.
soundcheck - if you (or anyone else) have some pointers to better info/summary on the state of HDMI audio etc, it would be very valuable.
dwk123:
Takashi Iwai ( in charge for many modules of the Linux audio layer - ALSA ) is saying that ALSA is supporting 2 channel raw PCM only at this stage. Multichannel would be AC3 compressed via HDMI.
Theoretically 8 PCM channels should be possible according to HDMI spec. I guess somebody needs to see a need for this
first to start writing drivers and developing HW.
Cheers
Takashi Iwai ( in charge for many modules of the Linux audio layer - ALSA ) is saying that ALSA is supporting 2 channel raw PCM only at this stage. Multichannel would be AC3 compressed via HDMI.
Theoretically 8 PCM channels should be possible according to HDMI spec. I guess somebody needs to see a need for this
first to start writing drivers and developing HW.
Cheers
ChuckT said:
I saw this before. How does it compare with something like the Dell LatitudeTM D530 for $550? For music only playback, a used laptop with a good USB sound card might be the ticket.
Or, maybe a Dell OptiplexTM 330 Mini Tower for $350 with a good sound card? I've got some old P5 1.8ghz Dell's I got from work that are almost completely silent.
soundcheck said:dwk123:
Takashi Iwai ( in charge for many modules of the Linux audio layer - ALSA ) is saying that ALSA is supporting 2 channel raw PCM only at this stage. Multichannel would be AC3 compressed via HDMI.
Theoretically 8 PCM channels should be possible according to HDMI spec. I guess somebody needs to see a need for this
first to start writing drivers and developing HW.
Cheers
Daveis said:
Well the M4000 is MSPR: $269, street should be cheaper.
Add harddisk and u are done.
So for low cost very simple mass storage music server, this is it.
I would say the digital out is excellent, much better than the Philips 963 dvd I had.
If u just want to select from a list and play, this is it. But if u want digital eq, crossover, filter.... then PC.
I have not play with a PC music server however, compare to Tvix, too much trouble to setup and boot up time is too long just to play music.
Jkeny,
I have been running a SAXR55 with my Dynaudio Audience 82 and 122c speakers for about 2 years now with good result. The low end is cover by a good sub. I have found that the Panasonic is very sensitive to the input power and speaker line resistance. I believe this is a result from the small power caps and cheap binding posts. The best thing I have done is changed out the power cord, putting it on a dedicated power line along with a good quality outlet. Midrange will be much improve with better current flow.
I'm currently in the process of upgrading the binding posts, internal wirings and adding more power caps. Let us know if you finally decide to go with a Panny along with any modification updates.
Cheers,
Eld
I have been running a SAXR55 with my Dynaudio Audience 82 and 122c speakers for about 2 years now with good result. The low end is cover by a good sub. I have found that the Panasonic is very sensitive to the input power and speaker line resistance. I believe this is a result from the small power caps and cheap binding posts. The best thing I have done is changed out the power cord, putting it on a dedicated power line along with a good quality outlet. Midrange will be much improve with better current flow.
I'm currently in the process of upgrading the binding posts, internal wirings and adding more power caps. Let us know if you finally decide to go with a Panny along with any modification updates.
Cheers,
Eld
Will do, eld,
I'm looking at the XR557 schematics at the moment to see if mods are possible (even though it's only the XR59, I can get over here). I was thinking of running it on 12V 7.5aH SLA battery to power the output stage! The ouput stage is where, I think, the 0 PSRR affects the sonics most notably and probably where clean PS will matter most! I know dwk123 has done this on a XR25 and reported improved sonics
So if this can be done successfully on the XR59, I guess the existing PS would be serving the low power digital circuits. This might then need less mods to clean up then if it was serving the output stage also!
The only problem is the volume control which is (partly?) controlled by adjusting the PS voltage.
dwk123 has done the same with batteries and lost some volume range - I don't think he ever managed to tie the batteries into the vol control or if this could even be possible.
If not possible I wonder how much the PS stage could be improved? I read some PS mods involved Jensen 4 pole cap. I think the caps on the output stage are good Panasonic caps so no point in replacing these?
I will try & gather all the mods I can find & post here
As I say, I have the service manuals in PDF for XR55 & XR57 if anybody wants them. I would be interested in trying to get the best out of this amp.
Would there be enough interest in a group effort on improving these amps?
Edit: You know that if the hdmi audio input implementation is better than SPDif and pretty jitter free, this could be one hell of an amp when fed through this for both stereo & multichannel!
I'm looking at the XR557 schematics at the moment to see if mods are possible (even though it's only the XR59, I can get over here). I was thinking of running it on 12V 7.5aH SLA battery to power the output stage! The ouput stage is where, I think, the 0 PSRR affects the sonics most notably and probably where clean PS will matter most! I know dwk123 has done this on a XR25 and reported improved sonics
So if this can be done successfully on the XR59, I guess the existing PS would be serving the low power digital circuits. This might then need less mods to clean up then if it was serving the output stage also!
The only problem is the volume control which is (partly?) controlled by adjusting the PS voltage.
dwk123 has done the same with batteries and lost some volume range - I don't think he ever managed to tie the batteries into the vol control or if this could even be possible.
If not possible I wonder how much the PS stage could be improved? I read some PS mods involved Jensen 4 pole cap. I think the caps on the output stage are good Panasonic caps so no point in replacing these?
I will try & gather all the mods I can find & post here
As I say, I have the service manuals in PDF for XR55 & XR57 if anybody wants them. I would be interested in trying to get the best out of this amp.
Would there be enough interest in a group effort on improving these amps?
Edit: You know that if the hdmi audio input implementation is better than SPDif and pretty jitter free, this could be one hell of an amp when fed through this for both stereo & multichannel!
Jkeny,
I'm definitely interested in a group effort on modifying these amps.
I highly recommend the power cord upgrade as one mod that should be done. Going from the stock 18 gauge wires to NEP 3003 (13 gauge OCC) cord and Furutech FI-11M(G) plug made huge sonic improvements for me. I wire this directly to the first line coil L701.
What are your opinions on adding more capacitance to C707, C717 and C718 in the SAXR55? I'm thinking of adding 6600uF to C707 with (3) Panasonic EET-ED caps between the transformer and switcher and 6000uF to C717 and C718 with (12) Panasonic FM caps total after the transformer.
I'm definitely interested in a group effort on modifying these amps.
I highly recommend the power cord upgrade as one mod that should be done. Going from the stock 18 gauge wires to NEP 3003 (13 gauge OCC) cord and Furutech FI-11M(G) plug made huge sonic improvements for me. I wire this directly to the first line coil L701.
What are your opinions on adding more capacitance to C707, C717 and C718 in the SAXR55? I'm thinking of adding 6600uF to C707 with (3) Panasonic EET-ED caps between the transformer and switcher and 6000uF to C717 and C718 with (12) Panasonic FM caps total after the transformer.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.