Hi guys,
I'd like to hear some opinions about the difference between Pa-poweramplifiers and Hifi-poweramplifiers. PA-amps usually offer more power for less money than Hifi-amps. Their distortion numbers are only slightly larger than those of Hifi-amps. Why do we still buy multiple hundred dollar hifi-amps, if the same power is available for much less?
btw. I've ordered my first PA-amp, and it is due next friday...
(135 watts@ 8 ohm, 200 watts@ 4 ohm, for only $190)
I'd like to hear some opinions about the difference between Pa-poweramplifiers and Hifi-poweramplifiers. PA-amps usually offer more power for less money than Hifi-amps. Their distortion numbers are only slightly larger than those of Hifi-amps. Why do we still buy multiple hundred dollar hifi-amps, if the same power is available for much less?
btw. I've ordered my first PA-amp, and it is due next friday...
(135 watts@ 8 ohm, 200 watts@ 4 ohm, for only $190)
I have used several PA amps in hi-fi applications. The main amp that comes to mind is the Crown K2 (or smaller K1). This is a great sounding amp with a great dampening factor. I've used it in several recording studios, and there are 10 or so of them installed in the Utah Symphony Hall. (The musicians complained too much about fan noise). Another nice thing about the K series is they demand much less power than a traditional Class AB PA amp. So, you can run them on standard 15 amp house lines without running in to trouble. Another wonderful amp for hi-fi use is the Crown MT-1200 (or MT-2400). The one drawback is the fans. If you can put them in a well ventalated cabinet with good airflow, they are hard to beat for the money.
My 2 cents.
Cheers,
Zach
My 2 cents.
Cheers,
Zach
A truly excellent range of PA amps was made in the 90's by H+H, and called the Chameleon. They ranged from 2x300w to the 2x1000w shown in the pic below. They were all 1U high, built like nothing on earth, quiet, and sounded phenominal. I have heard many touring pro market PA amps, but these were easily the most musical, defined and powerful. I would recommend them to anyone, and if I had the money, I would have a rack full of them.
However, because they were so compact, they were a complete %$^&&%$£ to work on!
However, because they were so compact, they were a complete %$^&&%$£ to work on!
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Hi keyser,
Only disconnect the fan if you would like to buy a hi fi amp. The unit will overheat and you will have let the magic smoke out of the box. Replacement smoke costs a lot of money.
Try installing the amp in the basement or in a closet if you find the noise too loud. After a few years, it will be too loud. Don't forget that fan cooled amps need to be cleaned out. Much like your vacuum cleaner.
-Chris
Only disconnect the fan if you would like to buy a hi fi amp. The unit will overheat and you will have let the magic smoke out of the box. Replacement smoke costs a lot of money.
Try installing the amp in the basement or in a closet if you find the noise too loud. After a few years, it will be too loud. Don't forget that fan cooled amps need to be cleaned out. Much like your vacuum cleaner.
-Chris
pinkmouse said:A truly excellent range of PA amps was made in the 90's by H+H, and called the Chameleon. They ranged from 2x300w to the 2x1000w shown in the pic below. They were all 1U high, built like nothing on earth, quiet, and sounded phenominal. I have heard many touring pro market PA amps, but these were easily the most musical, defined and powerful. I would recommend them to anyone, and if I had the money, I would have a rack full of them.
However, because they were so compact, they were a complete %$^&&%$£ to work on!
I remember those now, I read a review of them in hi-fi world mag. Pinkmouse, care to let us in on topology or output device choice on those amps? Know where any schematics can be found?
richie00boy said:
Unfortunately at the time, my electronics knowledge was minimal, I was in a hurry, and I was just replacing a dodgy batch of dried up electrolytics, so I didn't really analyse the circuit. However, I know where the schematic might be obtained, I will see what I can do. They are also one of the few products that holds value, even now, at probably over 10 years old, the 2x1000w still has a s/h trade price of around £900
Hmm, Class D, small, light, cool, high-tech. Chameleon, big, heavy, old-school, bombproof...
I would say yes, but be aware that even though the fronts are small, they are quite deep front to back, and heavy, so they may not fit on a standard rack. Also, if it is the model with an incremental push switch for attenuation, the switches were a little vulnerable to damage, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to get a replacement.
I would say yes, but be aware that even though the fronts are small, they are quite deep front to back, and heavy, so they may not fit on a standard rack. Also, if it is the model with an incremental push switch for attenuation, the switches were a little vulnerable to damage, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to get a replacement.
So, What's the verdict?
I have been lurking here for quite some time, trying to make up my own mind on this exact topic.
I am a mobile DJ, currently carrying an old QSC MX-700 that has been overhauled many times (not by me - yet).
I would like to build my own amp, but I don't see any "track records" for the leach, GC, etc. amps discussed here as to their road worthiness.
I currently use a pair of Yamaha S15e speakers, and sometimes a pair of Peavey 358-S speakers.
I will soon be building the following speakers for my DJ rig:
http://tinyurl.com/4nrt2
(the piezo tweeter verison)
These use a PAudio™ SN10-MB or Eminence Beta 10 driver, either of which are very happy with about 150W RMS.
So, for me, the 64K question is can DIY power amps be counted on in a mobile DJ environment?
Any and all comments are welcome...
Peace,
Keith Kibler
I have been lurking here for quite some time, trying to make up my own mind on this exact topic.
I am a mobile DJ, currently carrying an old QSC MX-700 that has been overhauled many times (not by me - yet).
I would like to build my own amp, but I don't see any "track records" for the leach, GC, etc. amps discussed here as to their road worthiness.
I currently use a pair of Yamaha S15e speakers, and sometimes a pair of Peavey 358-S speakers.
I will soon be building the following speakers for my DJ rig:
http://tinyurl.com/4nrt2
(the piezo tweeter verison)
These use a PAudio™ SN10-MB or Eminence Beta 10 driver, either of which are very happy with about 150W RMS.
So, for me, the 64K question is can DIY power amps be counted on in a mobile DJ environment?
Any and all comments are welcome...
Peace,
Keith Kibler
Kieth, unless you are just itching to build something, I would recommend buying a commercial product for the road. I own a pro audio repair business, adn I have numerous DJs as clients.
The commercial units sound good, and any hifi improvements to the power amp you might make will be lost on the dancers. They don't care and won't notice that extra tenth of a percent distortion figure or the improved slew rate.
Whatever you build, it goes far beyond the circuitry. I like Peavey gear for road use. Those CS800s will be running for decades to come. They have updated the CD line a few times, and have other models, but looking at the CS800 as typical, it is build like a tank, very sturdy. WIll you be able to come up with a rack chassis of similar nature? That is heavy gauge steel. The wind tunnel through the heatsinks insures good ventilation even in a rack since it breathes through the front, not the sides. THat sort of thing there requires mechanical engineering beyond circuit boards. It has balanced and unbalanced inputs and is bridgeable. And there are protections all over it. The DDT alone is a great feature. it prevents c lipping. Peavey amps also include crowbar circuits across the outputs to prevent your speakers from igniting in case of amp failure even.
But I am not trying to sell you on Peavey. My shop is factory authorized by them, but I am also a QSC warranty station. QSC makes some great amps too. Plenty of newer stuf than that MX. The Powerlite and PLX and newer series of switching power supplies work quite well and weigh in at 20 pounds instead of 50. QSC amps are easily bridged or paralleled and newer ones even include rumble filters and othre goodies.
But it sounds like you do not need a ton of amp, yours are not huge speakers. But the main thing is you are roading the amp. Peavey, QSC, Crown and all the other pro audio makers have designed the product for the road. They will have spent a lot of time and engineering anticipating potential trouble, beefing up the chassis here and anchoring parts there. They will include protections against input problems, overloaded speaker terminals, clipping, overheating, susceptibility to line noises and RF, speaker protection, and so on. All these things go way beyond the hifi amp design.
The commercial units sound good, and any hifi improvements to the power amp you might make will be lost on the dancers. They don't care and won't notice that extra tenth of a percent distortion figure or the improved slew rate.
Whatever you build, it goes far beyond the circuitry. I like Peavey gear for road use. Those CS800s will be running for decades to come. They have updated the CD line a few times, and have other models, but looking at the CS800 as typical, it is build like a tank, very sturdy. WIll you be able to come up with a rack chassis of similar nature? That is heavy gauge steel. The wind tunnel through the heatsinks insures good ventilation even in a rack since it breathes through the front, not the sides. THat sort of thing there requires mechanical engineering beyond circuit boards. It has balanced and unbalanced inputs and is bridgeable. And there are protections all over it. The DDT alone is a great feature. it prevents c lipping. Peavey amps also include crowbar circuits across the outputs to prevent your speakers from igniting in case of amp failure even.
But I am not trying to sell you on Peavey. My shop is factory authorized by them, but I am also a QSC warranty station. QSC makes some great amps too. Plenty of newer stuf than that MX. The Powerlite and PLX and newer series of switching power supplies work quite well and weigh in at 20 pounds instead of 50. QSC amps are easily bridged or paralleled and newer ones even include rumble filters and othre goodies.
But it sounds like you do not need a ton of amp, yours are not huge speakers. But the main thing is you are roading the amp. Peavey, QSC, Crown and all the other pro audio makers have designed the product for the road. They will have spent a lot of time and engineering anticipating potential trouble, beefing up the chassis here and anchoring parts there. They will include protections against input problems, overloaded speaker terminals, clipping, overheating, susceptibility to line noises and RF, speaker protection, and so on. All these things go way beyond the hifi amp design.
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