Hi, sorry I'm a little longer to reply...
I got the elco's in wrong direction
& some other trouble
I have the day(wrong elco's) & night picture(corrected)
one 560 ohm resistor is burned nothing else thanks to the bulb tester.
Then I set the quiescent current to 50mV collector to collector as Rode instruction on his website. After everything checked OK, then put speakers & source.
Hear the sound & I'm impressed by the sound...
The high is crystal clear, the bass also good with that little speakers
I ask my brother too, hey this one is better than the last one.
More 3D, more separation in bass, mid, & high...
I'm very happy... This is not an amp to be under estimated just like what he say
with better selection parts maybe you'll surprise with the result.
I use 2SA1209(VAS), 2SA1930-SC5171(driver) & toshiba output.
Can hear the difference cos the speaker is not matched, the right one always sound better to my ears
I like this amp, it is not so hot amp the PeeCeeBee is hotter.
last time I make PeeCeeBee there was an error & the component is not the most good one, that's why I must build new one with better parts.
On the bottom right are the PeeCeeBee boards, the first I made already integrated with tone control. So it's unfair to compare.
The PeeCeeBee has more detailed in the sound more airy, even with lower supply it can sound huge. More quite when I pause the player, both is hum free. With PeeCeeBee the hiss is almost gone, this one hiss can be heard at 10cm from the speaker.
I need to build another better PeeCeeBee to compared fairly
So I don't have a good answer yet to you guys, sorry
Regards
John
I got the elco's in wrong direction
& some other trouble I have the day(wrong elco's) & night picture(corrected)
one 560 ohm resistor is burned nothing else thanks to the bulb tester.
Then I set the quiescent current to 50mV collector to collector as Rode instruction on his website. After everything checked OK, then put speakers & source.
Hear the sound & I'm impressed by the sound...
The high is crystal clear, the bass also good with that little speakers
I ask my brother too, hey this one is better than the last one.
More 3D, more separation in bass, mid, & high...
I'm very happy... This is not an amp to be under estimated just like what he say
with better selection parts maybe you'll surprise with the result.
I use 2SA1209(VAS), 2SA1930-SC5171(driver) & toshiba output.
Can hear the difference cos the speaker is not matched, the right one always sound better to my ears
I like this amp, it is not so hot amp
the PeeCeeBee is hotter.last time I make PeeCeeBee there was an error & the component is not the most good one, that's why I must build new one with better parts.
On the bottom right are the PeeCeeBee boards, the first I made already integrated with tone control. So it's unfair to compare.
The PeeCeeBee has more detailed in the sound more airy, even with lower supply it can sound huge. More quite when I pause the player, both is hum free. With PeeCeeBee the hiss is almost gone, this one hiss can be heard at 10cm from the speaker.
I need to build another better PeeCeeBee to compared fairly
So I don't have a good answer yet to you guys, sorry
Regards
John
Attachments
Hi John,
I quote
"Hear the sound & I'm impressed by the sound...
The high is crystal clear, the bass also good with that little speakers
I ask my brother too, hey this one is better than the last one.
More 3D, more separation in bass, mid, & high...
I'm very happy... This is not an amp to be under estimated just like what he say"
thanks for your feedback. when i powered the P3A, i am surprised by the sound and draw a similiar conclusion to yours. I use the board from Elliot and it is very very quiet in my 91 db speakers.
it sound so good that i have no great incentive to power up LC VSSA board !!!
BTW, mid is very good also and conveys the emotion of singers very well . Try Stacy kent and Patricia Barber. .
cheers
kp93300
I quote
"Hear the sound & I'm impressed by the sound...
The high is crystal clear, the bass also good with that little speakers
I ask my brother too, hey this one is better than the last one.
More 3D, more separation in bass, mid, & high...
I'm very happy... This is not an amp to be under estimated just like what he say"
thanks for your feedback. when i powered the P3A, i am surprised by the sound and draw a similiar conclusion to yours. I use the board from Elliot and it is very very quiet in my 91 db speakers.
it sound so good that i have no great incentive to power up LC VSSA board !!!
BTW, mid is very good also and conveys the emotion of singers very well . Try Stacy kent and Patricia Barber. .
cheers
kp93300
Maybe you should ! You never know the difference till you power it up and hear it in the same system.
My P3A is being completed...slowly !
vssa
This is big problem for me because i haven't any part for your version.
Nikos, is P3a in your collection?
Regards.
Thimios.
Hi my friend .....of course we are off topic .
This is big problem for me because i haven't any part for your version.
Nikos, is P3a in your collection?
Regards.
Thimios.
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p3a
Yes i see this in my test but measurements isn't all the truth about amplifiers...
Hi Thimios, I'm sorry I do not know which version of the VSSA. Anyway I would recommend that you guys test the amp out for a longer period of time. There have been amps that sounded better/more exciting in an A/B test than the P3A, but after listening for few days, I always have gone back to P3A.
It may be someone highly gifted can hear that square difference, but I assure you that for us mortals it has no impact. Moreover, the resulting sound is what gets out from audio chain, and speakers are the most complex in view of making sound. So, better we should look how amplifier suit or complement speakers than measure parameters that are irrelevant. Maybe I am not absolutely right, but there is some not discovered things in audio for sure. V-3 power amplifier by Wes Phillips Vol
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
We need Still4given (aka Terry) to compare the SKA with the P3A - I think he's built almost all the amps around here
new travel
Ok let's start from the last!
Silicon chip 20W class A.http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...icon-chip-20w-class-amplifier-opinions-3.html.
Thanks all for reply.
Oh john.... now i have problem!
I'm about to start 3 or 4 amplifiers.
Symef.
Dx super A.
Vssa(peeceebee)
Silicon Chip 20W class A
Which the first?
Ok let's start from the last!
Silicon chip 20W class A.http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...icon-chip-20w-class-amplifier-opinions-3.html.
Thanks all for reply.
.... now ...been in the repair business for over 30 years ..Repairing amps i have heard anything you can imagine ..
Out of the blue i just realized that i have never constructed an amplifier made like the schematic posted .
LTP is fed from a 36 volt rail
VAS is fed by 51.5 +51.5 rail
OUTPUT stays in 45+45 rails
the schematic belongs to Pioneer and something is telling me that if made with the power supplies accommodated on the amplifier boards will sound extremely nice.
It will require a sophisticated PCB though focused more on power supply and distribution rather than the amplifier it self which should be a walk in the park
Out of the blue i just realized that i have never constructed an amplifier made like the schematic posted .
LTP is fed from a 36 volt rail
VAS is fed by 51.5 +51.5 rail
OUTPUT stays in 45+45 rails
the schematic belongs to Pioneer and something is telling me that if made with the power supplies accommodated on the amplifier boards will sound extremely nice.
It will require a sophisticated PCB though focused more on power supply and distribution rather than the amplifier it self which should be a walk in the park
Attachments
rest
Now Dx Super A is here.http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/221741-dx-blame-st-together-dx-super-120.htmlOk let's start from the last!
Silicon chip 20W class A.http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...icon-chip-20w-class-amplifier-opinions-3.html.
Thanks all for reply.
here is a couple of things :
Since the day this thread is started some thing have elevated to a next level some other people happily constructed and enjoy also and some other people got involved in a ver nice cousin thread for the TGM 8 to also get things in an other level and direction .
In between i get bombed very often with many emails that i happily answer regarding opinions and tips details and general help about the P3A and i try to support the issue as much is possible .
Often i have to answer emails regarding pcb's which go in an auto reject mode since i s far as i know i stated million of times that pcb i make is for my personal use only and you should feel free to make your own or even better get the original pcb that is 100% tested and functional .
Often i also have to reject marvelous east oriented powerholic emails with questions like ""what do i need to change so the P3A will become a 1500W amplifier ? """
In the spirit of the P3A and regarding a PM i received some hour ago :
Dear all .... bridging and balanced is a language that i am not willing to understand ...
Bridging is oriented from PA and car audio applications and aims to produce as much power is possible from a given construction and rail supply . In hifi and far more HI END applications such a term obviously may not exist . The only possible option is that one will have to ensure that amplifiers to be bridged are equal from every possible aspect ..... here we don't talk about a couple of things .... i suspect that we at least talk for 10 serious issues. ...Obviously the effect will be very small and the error produced by the differences between the two amps will be small but still exist inside the system so its a NO !!!
Anyone that uses balanced inputs and outputs in HIFI audio that are produced by unbalanced circuits , or get converted back to unbalanced in the next stage of the amp or preamp is a person that cannot tell the difference between black and white or sum 1+1
To make a P3A or any other similar amplifier with balanced input will only make sound worst introduce distortion and limitations in the signal from the op amp that will be used ,complicate power supply rail and ground distribution and so on and on .
The only benefit from a balanced in out will be if your interconnect is 50m long ...other than that there is no real use at all its just a commercial trick .
There is only a few real balanced amplifiers all the way though and obviously there is a practical use there but still how well these amps sound i have never licensed to be able to tell ....
Kind regards
Sakis
Since the day this thread is started some thing have elevated to a next level some other people happily constructed and enjoy also and some other people got involved in a ver nice cousin thread for the TGM 8 to also get things in an other level and direction .
In between i get bombed very often with many emails that i happily answer regarding opinions and tips details and general help about the P3A and i try to support the issue as much is possible .
Often i have to answer emails regarding pcb's which go in an auto reject mode since i s far as i know i stated million of times that pcb i make is for my personal use only and you should feel free to make your own or even better get the original pcb that is 100% tested and functional .
Often i also have to reject marvelous east oriented powerholic emails with questions like ""what do i need to change so the P3A will become a 1500W amplifier ? """
In the spirit of the P3A and regarding a PM i received some hour ago :
Dear all .... bridging and balanced is a language that i am not willing to understand ...
Bridging is oriented from PA and car audio applications and aims to produce as much power is possible from a given construction and rail supply . In hifi and far more HI END applications such a term obviously may not exist . The only possible option is that one will have to ensure that amplifiers to be bridged are equal from every possible aspect ..... here we don't talk about a couple of things .... i suspect that we at least talk for 10 serious issues. ...Obviously the effect will be very small and the error produced by the differences between the two amps will be small but still exist inside the system so its a NO !!!
Anyone that uses balanced inputs and outputs in HIFI audio that are produced by unbalanced circuits , or get converted back to unbalanced in the next stage of the amp or preamp is a person that cannot tell the difference between black and white or sum 1+1
To make a P3A or any other similar amplifier with balanced input will only make sound worst introduce distortion and limitations in the signal from the op amp that will be used ,complicate power supply rail and ground distribution and so on and on .
The only benefit from a balanced in out will be if your interconnect is 50m long ...other than that there is no real use at all its just a commercial trick .
There is only a few real balanced amplifiers all the way though and obviously there is a practical use there but still how well these amps sound i have never licensed to be able to tell ....
Kind regards
Sakis
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
1500W - my gosh!
Sakis - thanks for the kind words on TGM8.
I agree about not putting opamps and stuff in front of the amplifier even though some people did build pre-amplifiers - but what do you think about making a balanced input to a good audio input transformer which doesn't need any circuity but the output could directly feed into P3A ? It would also isolate the gnd and be a natural barrier to ground loops. Only trouble is that good audio input transformers are 100X cost of an opamp !
Sakis - thanks for the kind words on TGM8.
I agree about not putting opamps and stuff in front of the amplifier even though some people did build pre-amplifiers - but what do you think about making a balanced input to a good audio input transformer which doesn't need any circuity but the output could directly feed into P3A ? It would also isolate the gnd and be a natural barrier to ground loops. Only trouble is that good audio input transformers are 100X cost of an opamp !
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Why Bigun ???
you have an amplifier that is extremely linear and has astronomical bandwidth and you are going to limit this with a trafo that obviously will not have the same specs , will not have the same speed , will tend to round something either highs or lows or both , and finally will be far more preamp hungry ( or horny if you prefer ) than the input of the P3a as was .
Why do that ...as about the ground issues ...learn to produce and install audio circuits properly and you will never see this problem in your life again ...Learn it the hard way which is only one and its called PA applications where every Tom Dick and Harry will mix match and connect anything with everything .
Its a NO from me ...As about the preamp ... Sorry i cannot survive without one since i listen in very low level and i cannot compromise my dynamics in such level probably for medium and above listening i could go passive ...
Nice talking to you G and i also admire the work you do in the TGM 8 even if this project is not for my teeth ( way too busy and the p3a took me 5 years almost to get exactly what i wanted from .... if i start to work on the TGM 8 it will take probably 10 !!!)
KInd regards
Sakis
you have an amplifier that is extremely linear and has astronomical bandwidth and you are going to limit this with a trafo that obviously will not have the same specs , will not have the same speed , will tend to round something either highs or lows or both , and finally will be far more preamp hungry ( or horny if you prefer ) than the input of the P3a as was .
Why do that ...as about the ground issues ...learn to produce and install audio circuits properly and you will never see this problem in your life again ...Learn it the hard way which is only one and its called PA applications where every Tom Dick and Harry will mix match and connect anything with everything .
Its a NO from me ...As about the preamp ... Sorry i cannot survive without one since i listen in very low level and i cannot compromise my dynamics in such level probably for medium and above listening i could go passive ...
Nice talking to you G and i also admire the work you do in the TGM 8 even if this project is not for my teeth ( way too busy and the p3a took me 5 years almost to get exactly what i wanted from .... if i start to work on the TGM 8 it will take probably 10 !!!)
KInd regards
Sakis
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