Member
Joined 2002
Hi Guys,
After searching the local market, i ended up with mainly drivers used in professional PA loudspeakers, some with good quality but mainly with 8 inch woofers and higher sizes. I have found the ALTO brand for example.
Based on that fact, I beleive i should order the full range drivers from the USA/CANADA or other but i am puzzled to which brand and size.
Although the MARK AUDIO drivers were recommended (due to lower sensitivity) instead of the FOSTEX ones, i felt that the maximum SPL of the FOSTEX would be higher (or am i wrong?). and fostex seemed to have better value for money.
Using 8 inch drivers all over the front might be difficult for the size especially for the center channel where i might need smaller drivers (if i had to use 8 inch drivers for LR, the center needs to have 2 smaller drivers of 6/5 or 4 inches).
if i used MARK AUDIO, i thought of several combinations:
1 - ALPAIR 12 (L/R) and 2 Alpair 7 for the center
2 - Alpair 10FR for all LR and Center.
If i needed to use Fostex:
1 - Fostex 167E for all 3 channels LR and Center (but would they break if a Bass note was sent to them as mentioned earlier! during movies or music?!!)because of the power of my amp
2 - Fostex 207E for LR and 2x167E for center (although this might be two big for a solution)
Another option might be as seen on this forum, is the Jordan JX92S all over the 3 front channels. It seems to have an acceptable size, frequency response, power handling, and moderate sensitivity, seems to be a middle solution between Mark AUDIO and FOSTEX and size limitations. is it a good driver?
For the back channels i am not in a hury to change them as they seem fine, but any recommendations would be good.
I might be able to put the order in the coming two days as some friends are travelling to pick them up for me. that is why i have widened my options including the Jordan driver.
the 6 inch drivers or smaller seem to be better solution as many recommended here. and the Jordan seems to show good power handling and acceptable SPL levels! but i am not the expert. its size is very nice and seems to have good bass from the specs and good high frequency handling.
After searching the local market, i ended up with mainly drivers used in professional PA loudspeakers, some with good quality but mainly with 8 inch woofers and higher sizes. I have found the ALTO brand for example.
Based on that fact, I beleive i should order the full range drivers from the USA/CANADA or other but i am puzzled to which brand and size.
Although the MARK AUDIO drivers were recommended (due to lower sensitivity) instead of the FOSTEX ones, i felt that the maximum SPL of the FOSTEX would be higher (or am i wrong?). and fostex seemed to have better value for money.
Using 8 inch drivers all over the front might be difficult for the size especially for the center channel where i might need smaller drivers (if i had to use 8 inch drivers for LR, the center needs to have 2 smaller drivers of 6/5 or 4 inches).
if i used MARK AUDIO, i thought of several combinations:
1 - ALPAIR 12 (L/R) and 2 Alpair 7 for the center
2 - Alpair 10FR for all LR and Center.
If i needed to use Fostex:
1 - Fostex 167E for all 3 channels LR and Center (but would they break if a Bass note was sent to them as mentioned earlier! during movies or music?!!)because of the power of my amp
2 - Fostex 207E for LR and 2x167E for center (although this might be two big for a solution)
Another option might be as seen on this forum, is the Jordan JX92S all over the 3 front channels. It seems to have an acceptable size, frequency response, power handling, and moderate sensitivity, seems to be a middle solution between Mark AUDIO and FOSTEX and size limitations. is it a good driver?
For the back channels i am not in a hury to change them as they seem fine, but any recommendations would be good.
I might be able to put the order in the coming two days as some friends are travelling to pick them up for me. that is why i have widened my options including the Jordan driver.
the 6 inch drivers or smaller seem to be better solution as many recommended here. and the Jordan seems to show good power handling and acceptable SPL levels! but i am not the expert. its size is very nice and seems to have good bass from the specs and good high frequency handling.
Frequencies lower than 80Hz (perhaps higher on some units?) can be filtered out of the L, C & R channels and directed to powered woofer(s), so that should not be your biggest concern.
Placement of multiple speaker enclosures housing either single / full-range drivers or 2 /3-ways of the size you're contemplating in the room you displayed will be far more an an issue.
I've suggested several times in this thread that the driver(s) in the front row channels should probably be close to the same, and not require enclosures that overpower the space. The 207E or Alpair 12 could be more than you need, as I suspect 2 167Es or Alpair 7s in the center channel would be as well.
While my own experiences with the Jordan JX92S don't put it at the top of my go - to list, it is a very good driver indeed - certainly not one to be considered a "middle solution", as the semantics of your sentence seems to imply. It's probably safe to say that the Mark Audio Alpair 10, or perhaps the newer Alpair 12 would bear more resemblance to them than anything from the Fostex catalog.
You definitely want to finalize your strategy for new front channels first, and perhaps experiment with placement options for the existing surrounds.
But honestly, I think the best suggestion that I could make to you would be to invest in this book before hastening the expenditure on any new drivers:
Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms: Amazon.ca: Floyd Toole: Books
Mr Toole, as they say could write a library on the subject, and this one should be considered required reading for anyone (particularly us self-proclaimed experts) considering a multi-channel audio system.
You seem to be in quite a quandary indeed - wavering between various 8" and 6" types. Patience can be very hard to muster at times, but I think you still need to carefully consider the overall physical space into which you'd be placing this system before spending money on drivers just to get started.
Even experts (and certainly DIYers) will disagree on the relevance of component drivers' or complete speaker systems' specifications when the rubber hits the road, so to speak - i.e. how it/they will sound in any particular room. When done right, multi-channel A/V can be very entertaining indeed, but the more channels you have, the easier it can be to get things wrong - whether by compromising an enclosure design to fit available space, inappropriate/poorly matched drivers to suit the application, or poor placement.
read the Toole book
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chrisb,
thank you for the time and valuable explanations. Yes i am slighlty puzzled by what to choose just because i am excited to do this project and work (or start working on it) in the xmas vacation. Nevertheless, during the discussions in the thread and my inner intuition, available space, room size (that is still open to a larger space.so not that small in this aspect),etc. i tend to say that having the same driver in the front raw will give priority for either of the following drivers in the LCR front (Alpair 10, JS92, and Fostex 167E). These i beleive (by no mean a compromise or "moderate solution") might have a promissing win situation.
What makes me more in a hurry is that i got someone to get these drivers for me so i can save some extra momey on customs and VAT (since if someone brings these on him through airport (they dont take customs and VAT as they are for personal use, while with mail delivery, they do take).
I appreciate, the book suggestion, i will try to get it. ( i think one of my friends has it, i will check). I might skim through it to get some additional info.
thank you for the time and valuable explanations. Yes i am slighlty puzzled by what to choose just because i am excited to do this project and work (or start working on it) in the xmas vacation. Nevertheless, during the discussions in the thread and my inner intuition, available space, room size (that is still open to a larger space.so not that small in this aspect),etc. i tend to say that having the same driver in the front raw will give priority for either of the following drivers in the LCR front (Alpair 10, JS92, and Fostex 167E). These i beleive (by no mean a compromise or "moderate solution") might have a promissing win situation.
What makes me more in a hurry is that i got someone to get these drivers for me so i can save some extra momey on customs and VAT (since if someone brings these on him through airport (they dont take customs and VAT as they are for personal use, while with mail delivery, they do take).
I appreciate, the book suggestion, i will try to get it. ( i think one of my friends has it, i will check). I might skim through it to get some additional info.
Mr Toole has put many decades of personal experience into this book - I doubt a quick skim would do it justice, and any insights gained by a thorough read could well benefit far more than a one-time cost savings on customs and VAT on speakers that don't suit the application.
Having said all that, I can certainly identify with the desire to see some actual results.
FWIW, I just had another short listening session mostly to a new EL43 SET amp, but which also included comparing 3 different models of Mark Audio drivers (CHR70, EL70 and Alpair 6) and one of Fostex FE127E.
A few disclosures:
- all drivers except the Alpair 6's had the EnAbl treatment;
- the two paper cone drivers EL70 & FE127 were in the same size enclosure design -13 liter Fonken"Prime";
- the two metal cone drivers CHR70 & Alpair 6 were in the smaller (approx 5 liter) "milli" sized enclosure;
- there was also another amp in the room (on loan from a friend) that was briefly auditioned - ALOIA ST13.01 - Italian solid state amp 30WPC.
Subjective observations:
- I prefer the sound of paper cone full range drivers;
- this seems to be another exemplar of some kinda magic synergy between low damping factor tube amps and full range drivers ( and not necessarily just in BLH) that no SS amp I've yet heard can match;
- the Aloia was highly detailed, had excellent bass extension, weight and "authority" - whatever you want to call it - but compared to the 5 watt tube amp, was somewhat compressed dynamically at my listening levels (well less than 90 dB SPL in a pretty tiny room), and certainly had far less dimensionality;
- if I was to get serious about revisiting home multi-channel audio for a smallish room, I'd be very inclined to consider the EL70 or CHR70 for mains and surrounds. With a surround processor's bass management and the support of powered woofer(s), excursion limitations should be far less of a problem than in a simple 2 channel, full range audio-only system without such woofers.
- it's been my experience to date that the Mark Audio drivers are far more forgiving of the electronics than the Fostex - and in any enclosure I've heard them in, neither of these drivers sound as small as they look.
Member
Joined 2002
I think were all lost, are you building a 5.1 setup or a pair of nice speakers for 2 channel listening ?
That pioneer receiver you have there has ALOT of power, you will not be able to turn it up loud with these full range drivers. That receiver is build like a brick house, it can take on some pretty big and heavy hungry speakers.
U ask what i would use to build a ht room ? all bryston with a processor & 2 amplifiers a 4bst plus a 3bst, and 2 power subwoofers, then leave my listening and music i enjoy for another room / setup.
Question, do you listen to your movies loud ?
That pioneer receiver you have there has ALOT of power, you will not be able to turn it up loud with these full range drivers. That receiver is build like a brick house, it can take on some pretty big and heavy hungry speakers.
U ask what i would use to build a ht room ? all bryston with a processor & 2 amplifiers a 4bst plus a 3bst, and 2 power subwoofers, then leave my listening and music i enjoy for another room / setup.
Question, do you listen to your movies loud ?
Well perhaps he hasn't the budget or physical space for big-zoot gear such as you list, or the option for a separate music only system.
An ideal multichannel audio system should sound just as believable, entertaining and even transportative when the music is standing on its own and not as support to the visuals - that doesn't necessarily take thousands of watts and deca-kilobucks to attain. As you know, it just takes a lot of careful work and consideration of the particular venue - one size definitely does not fit all.
that of course is an excellent question - does goldorak have an objective frame of reference for how loud, let's say 98dB SPL really is?
Member
Joined 2002
Did you not see the $$$ Elite amplifier he has, Pretty close to a top of the line amplifier, i'm pretty sure it would be a bad idea to run some fostex drivers on this system. All it takes is that nice movie to become loud once, and well then your drivers are trophies of what they used to be.
The Pioneer Elite amplifiers are very power full, and under rated to their power.
Just trying to save a pair of speakers that some one puts hard work into building RESEARCHING and then making them smoke 🙁 Very easy to do with this amplifier,
I also posted MY dream setup 🙂 Bryston or parasound 🙂 Not a huge fan of multi channel intergrated amplifiers such as the one being used, i'm a true fan of one processor unit, designed to run all the other amplifiers.
AND I HATE IN-WALL SPEAKERS!
One of the reason we have been encouraging him to look at the Mark Audio speakers...
Power isn't an issue if you are judicial with it. A clipping amplifier is usually worse.
dave
Hi Guys,
I will summarize my case (i.e. I have mentioned this information earlier but could be good to summarize). Because I see jleaman point regarding for what am I using this. (bare with me the long post)😱
I have the following setup currently (dimensions in meters):
Listening room (which is the living room) and neighborhood:
- Main listening room dimensions: 4x3.5x3 (Lengthxwidthxheight) and it is open from one side of length 3 meters to the rest of the house and mainly to a main area of almost 6x6 dimensions (approximate as the neighborhood area doesn’t have a rectangular shape). The main listening room has a 3x3 L shape couch were we sit to watch TV and movies, and listen to music.
- Future plans might include moving the HT setup to a room or 6x4.5x3 dimensions and getting a projector J .
Current hardware:
- 40 Inch Full HD Sony Bravia X series TV
- Cable Sat Box linked through composite RCA to the Pioneer Receiver
- LG Up scaling DVD player that can sample up to 96 Khz connected through HDMI to the receiver.
- Multimedia HTPC (build by me) equipped with the latest up scaling video card to FULL HD and the Auzentech X-FI Home Theatre HD sound card (capable of the Dolby True HD and DTS HD format reproduction. This HTPC is really powerful in audio and video equalizing and effects (room reverberation, equalizer, etc.) connected through HDMI to the receiver.
- HTPC equipped with a BluRay Drive to play bluray movies.
- Technisat Satellite HD receiving Box connected through USB to the HTPC.
- Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver (THX Ultra certified with 140 Watts/channel and has the features of auto calibration for the standing waves, channel levels, full bandwidth phase control, through a calibrating microphone)
- Energy ESW-V10 10 inch subwoofer System Type Bass Reflex with Rear Firing Dual Ports, Frequency Response 23Hz-120Hz +/- 3dB, Amplifier Power Output 300 Watts RMS, 1200 Watts Dynamic
- Energy take classic 5 satellites.
o Specifications:
o Frequency Response Sat: 115Hz-20KHz; Center: 110Hz-20KHz
o Power Handling 100 Watts
o Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 100 Watts RMS (Continuous)
o Impedance 8-ohm compatible
o Tweeter ¾-inch (19 mm) Hyperbolic™ aluminum-dome
o Woofer 3-inch poly-titanium
o Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 89dB
o Crossover Point 2.9 kHz
Main usage:
- Main interest is watching bluray/DVD movies at High Definition and as best as possible excellent cinematic sound effects
- Sometimes music listening (80s songs for English and some new rhythmic new songs), Old French songs sometimes, Julio Iglesias, Via Con Dios, etc.
- I do experiment with many types of music listening, Yanni, classical, techno, etc.
- Arabic/Oriental music which contains a lot of percussion instruments and string based instruments as well.
- Games sometimes mainly first person shooter, car, and flight games. J but I don’t really have the time.
So basically it is for Home theatre but yet good music listening. I don’t consider myself an audiophile but more of a techno addict, I like good screens, good sound reproduction equipment, etc.
The idea started when I felt that the current satellites do not accurately reproduce mid bass and do not give enough power to reveal voice of singers and actors especially at low volumes.
When I was 17 years old I have experimented with the 12 inch McKenzie Full range speaker (An English loudspeaker company that doesn’t exist anymore as I have read), I used them for parties, but nevertheless those speakers were really good. The bass/midrange quality was excellent.
So I thought I can try this experience again, and reached eventually diyaudio which is a very pleasant\informing forum by the way.
Taking your comment jleaman, I do feel lost if these full range speakers can do the job I am asking from them. I did feel the Davis speakers that I showed you earlier might hold better power for Home theatre (each tower is equipped with 2x5.25 inch woofers, 1 kevlar 5.25 inch mid range, and a tweeter for a very much comparable price tag of what I might pay for the Full range project, their power rating is 80-120 watts as they say.
So as you said jleaman I do want to benefit from the power of the receiver, I am a little confused by my current satellite ratings, I mean when they say they can handle 100 watts continuous!! I know it is not music power, but compared to the alpair 10 for example, does that mean the current small 3 inch Energy speakers can handle more power input and that for the same power I might burn those alpair 10? Excuse me for my lack of information in this subject in particular. Dave’s comment might be targeting this point exactly.
I sometimes listen to movies and songs at high levels, however in order not to disturb neighbors I would really benefit from speakers that can produce quality sound (wide frequency range reproduction) from movies at mid/low power as well.
Coming to Chrisb and jleaman question regarding listening power level, well I do not have a tool to check how much dBs my current speakers are giving within my room, but I do enjoy turning them on full power, they are not that big (satellites at least). The main bass power is from the subwoofer crossed at 100Hz. I doubt I am using full power of the sub, I assume that the receiver has tuned it down to match the room and satellites.
Excuse me for the long post.
N.B: for the money question, well I am like most of people here a hard worker and would like to benefit from my investment as possible (value vs cost thing). I did invest in the amplifier and the HTPC pretty much. I have convinced myself and the wife J of a possible 1000+ USD for the front raw speakers LCR when I have seen the Davis towers and center channel in a show room. But then I decided to check the possibility of the fun in the project through DIY. The 3x alpair 10 LCR channels will cost around 700+ USD taking into consideration price of drivers over online shopping (400 USD for the drivers alone), shipping (around 100+ USD), wood work (around 150 USD if I need as possible beautifully crafted marine plywood with “mahogany!” finishing same color of my TV stand) (as I am making use of the help of a friend carpenter), accessories, etc.
The VAT and Customs that i can evade (legally) if a friend gets these for me would be around 150-200 USD, so basically around 35% of the project's budget.
My main lost thoughts are because of this statement in my mind: If I consider that the project will be successful and the alpair 10 can outperform these obtainable (next to me) Davis loudspeakers, I would go for the alpair 10 setup for the fun of the project and the anticipated better quality. But I don’t have any prior experience of what kind of sound these alpair 10 might reproduce, I can only imagine that they should perform very good considering the size, power chart and possible resemblance in alloy manufacturing to my current smaller speakers.
I tend to feel i am silly with all my inquiries, but this post opens a broad question of what possible drivers (mainly full range) combination would be good for a small to mid size room to produce good quality cinematic effects and 5.1/stereo music reproduction.
I will summarize my case (i.e. I have mentioned this information earlier but could be good to summarize). Because I see jleaman point regarding for what am I using this. (bare with me the long post)😱
I have the following setup currently (dimensions in meters):
Listening room (which is the living room) and neighborhood:
- Main listening room dimensions: 4x3.5x3 (Lengthxwidthxheight) and it is open from one side of length 3 meters to the rest of the house and mainly to a main area of almost 6x6 dimensions (approximate as the neighborhood area doesn’t have a rectangular shape). The main listening room has a 3x3 L shape couch were we sit to watch TV and movies, and listen to music.
- Future plans might include moving the HT setup to a room or 6x4.5x3 dimensions and getting a projector J .
Current hardware:
- 40 Inch Full HD Sony Bravia X series TV
- Cable Sat Box linked through composite RCA to the Pioneer Receiver
- LG Up scaling DVD player that can sample up to 96 Khz connected through HDMI to the receiver.
- Multimedia HTPC (build by me) equipped with the latest up scaling video card to FULL HD and the Auzentech X-FI Home Theatre HD sound card (capable of the Dolby True HD and DTS HD format reproduction. This HTPC is really powerful in audio and video equalizing and effects (room reverberation, equalizer, etc.) connected through HDMI to the receiver.
- HTPC equipped with a BluRay Drive to play bluray movies.
- Technisat Satellite HD receiving Box connected through USB to the HTPC.
- Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver (THX Ultra certified with 140 Watts/channel and has the features of auto calibration for the standing waves, channel levels, full bandwidth phase control, through a calibrating microphone)
- Energy ESW-V10 10 inch subwoofer System Type Bass Reflex with Rear Firing Dual Ports, Frequency Response 23Hz-120Hz +/- 3dB, Amplifier Power Output 300 Watts RMS, 1200 Watts Dynamic
- Energy take classic 5 satellites.
o Specifications:
o Frequency Response Sat: 115Hz-20KHz; Center: 110Hz-20KHz
o Power Handling 100 Watts
o Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 100 Watts RMS (Continuous)
o Impedance 8-ohm compatible
o Tweeter ¾-inch (19 mm) Hyperbolic™ aluminum-dome
o Woofer 3-inch poly-titanium
o Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 89dB
o Crossover Point 2.9 kHz
Main usage:
- Main interest is watching bluray/DVD movies at High Definition and as best as possible excellent cinematic sound effects
- Sometimes music listening (80s songs for English and some new rhythmic new songs), Old French songs sometimes, Julio Iglesias, Via Con Dios, etc.
- I do experiment with many types of music listening, Yanni, classical, techno, etc.
- Arabic/Oriental music which contains a lot of percussion instruments and string based instruments as well.
- Games sometimes mainly first person shooter, car, and flight games. J but I don’t really have the time.
So basically it is for Home theatre but yet good music listening. I don’t consider myself an audiophile but more of a techno addict, I like good screens, good sound reproduction equipment, etc.
The idea started when I felt that the current satellites do not accurately reproduce mid bass and do not give enough power to reveal voice of singers and actors especially at low volumes.
When I was 17 years old I have experimented with the 12 inch McKenzie Full range speaker (An English loudspeaker company that doesn’t exist anymore as I have read), I used them for parties, but nevertheless those speakers were really good. The bass/midrange quality was excellent.
So I thought I can try this experience again, and reached eventually diyaudio which is a very pleasant\informing forum by the way.
Taking your comment jleaman, I do feel lost if these full range speakers can do the job I am asking from them. I did feel the Davis speakers that I showed you earlier might hold better power for Home theatre (each tower is equipped with 2x5.25 inch woofers, 1 kevlar 5.25 inch mid range, and a tweeter for a very much comparable price tag of what I might pay for the Full range project, their power rating is 80-120 watts as they say.
So as you said jleaman I do want to benefit from the power of the receiver, I am a little confused by my current satellite ratings, I mean when they say they can handle 100 watts continuous!! I know it is not music power, but compared to the alpair 10 for example, does that mean the current small 3 inch Energy speakers can handle more power input and that for the same power I might burn those alpair 10? Excuse me for my lack of information in this subject in particular. Dave’s comment might be targeting this point exactly.
I sometimes listen to movies and songs at high levels, however in order not to disturb neighbors I would really benefit from speakers that can produce quality sound (wide frequency range reproduction) from movies at mid/low power as well.
Coming to Chrisb and jleaman question regarding listening power level, well I do not have a tool to check how much dBs my current speakers are giving within my room, but I do enjoy turning them on full power, they are not that big (satellites at least). The main bass power is from the subwoofer crossed at 100Hz. I doubt I am using full power of the sub, I assume that the receiver has tuned it down to match the room and satellites.
Excuse me for the long post.
N.B: for the money question, well I am like most of people here a hard worker and would like to benefit from my investment as possible (value vs cost thing). I did invest in the amplifier and the HTPC pretty much. I have convinced myself and the wife J of a possible 1000+ USD for the front raw speakers LCR when I have seen the Davis towers and center channel in a show room. But then I decided to check the possibility of the fun in the project through DIY. The 3x alpair 10 LCR channels will cost around 700+ USD taking into consideration price of drivers over online shopping (400 USD for the drivers alone), shipping (around 100+ USD), wood work (around 150 USD if I need as possible beautifully crafted marine plywood with “mahogany!” finishing same color of my TV stand) (as I am making use of the help of a friend carpenter), accessories, etc.
The VAT and Customs that i can evade (legally) if a friend gets these for me would be around 150-200 USD, so basically around 35% of the project's budget.
My main lost thoughts are because of this statement in my mind: If I consider that the project will be successful and the alpair 10 can outperform these obtainable (next to me) Davis loudspeakers, I would go for the alpair 10 setup for the fun of the project and the anticipated better quality. But I don’t have any prior experience of what kind of sound these alpair 10 might reproduce, I can only imagine that they should perform very good considering the size, power chart and possible resemblance in alloy manufacturing to my current smaller speakers.
I tend to feel i am silly with all my inquiries, but this post opens a broad question of what possible drivers (mainly full range) combination would be good for a small to mid size room to produce good quality cinematic effects and 5.1/stereo music reproduction.
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Not likely. It is probably a case of the Alpairs being conservatively rated and the Energy very optimistically rated.
The specified power rating is a figure i wholeheartedly ignore as being pretty close to irrelevant.
dave
Member
Joined 2002
techno would beat the crap out'a them full range drivers. That receiver says 140 but when it was benchmarked and tested with others it was around the 190wpc range.
Those energy speakers you got, ( not the sub ) are pretty useless.
Are you on some satelite or something that doesn't have hdmi out on the receiver ? Component is good, buw how is it connected with audio ? optical cable or Coax ?
Those energy speakers you got, ( not the sub ) are pretty useless.
Are you on some satelite or something that doesn't have hdmi out on the receiver ? Component is good, buw how is it connected with audio ? optical cable or Coax ?
Well when i was in september in USA i bought my HTPC parts (16 kg) including case, the pioneer receiver ( around 20 KG), the sub (around 20 KG), and thus with all these as a load, i couldnt put more weight for speakers as well and to be honest i didnt have budget at that time for better speakers. Most reviews praised those satellites to be very value oriented in their range. They are to be honest nice little speakers but nevertheless very small. Their articulation is nice but there is no power in the bass, midrange. but coupled with the subwoofer, they are covered a little bit. Anyhow we all know they are not the best to complement my arrangement. But hey jleaman, dont forget my current room isnt that big and i am limited with rear space. When i saw the davis towers with my wife, we were mainly attracted by the size of the box (100x15x20) in cm so very nice to fit the space i have. The alpair 10 can fit in similar boxes i presume.
As for the satellite, i have two satellite connections, one through the HTPC and a technisat HD2 USB receiver (aiming to two satellites), so it goes through HDMI to the receiver. while the other is cable TV (it is called Cable satellite TV here), so the receiver has only RCA out for video and audio, and s-video. no optical and unfortunately, the receiver is propietary to the cable company so i cant get something else to replace it (i wish i could).
Taking what you are saying, am i better with 2 or 3 way systems i.e. more powerfull wattage hungry woofers and tweeters? i was trying to run away from multi way systems because of the trouble of the crossovers, two way systems though might be less trouble then 3-way.
I mean i dont need to use all the power of my amplifier, it is ok i can live with using some of its power, the only thing i am afraid of is killing the drivers as you are suggesting. that is why i was inquiring about connecting several full range drivers in series in the same cabinet but of course this wasnt recommended by the people through this post for many considerations.
Note: when i calibrated my receiver, it seems that it arranged for full power (possibly the rated power of the speakers) to be reached when the volume is at 0DB (in most of my listening experiences, this seemed to be the case, in rare circumstances i got the speakers overldriven at 0DB volume, so i usually try to play them at maximum -2dB volume. (it is like safe margin i am abiding by, as u said, if i go all the way they will be blown.
As for the satellite, i have two satellite connections, one through the HTPC and a technisat HD2 USB receiver (aiming to two satellites), so it goes through HDMI to the receiver. while the other is cable TV (it is called Cable satellite TV here), so the receiver has only RCA out for video and audio, and s-video. no optical and unfortunately, the receiver is propietary to the cable company so i cant get something else to replace it (i wish i could).
Taking what you are saying, am i better with 2 or 3 way systems i.e. more powerfull wattage hungry woofers and tweeters? i was trying to run away from multi way systems because of the trouble of the crossovers, two way systems though might be less trouble then 3-way.
I mean i dont need to use all the power of my amplifier, it is ok i can live with using some of its power, the only thing i am afraid of is killing the drivers as you are suggesting. that is why i was inquiring about connecting several full range drivers in series in the same cabinet but of course this wasnt recommended by the people through this post for many considerations.
Note: when i calibrated my receiver, it seems that it arranged for full power (possibly the rated power of the speakers) to be reached when the volume is at 0DB (in most of my listening experiences, this seemed to be the case, in rare circumstances i got the speakers overldriven at 0DB volume, so i usually try to play them at maximum -2dB volume. (it is like safe margin i am abiding by, as u said, if i go all the way they will be blown.
Without attempting either precisely detailed calculations or a cocktail napkin scribbled guess of how much actual power the amp might be be delivering to the multiple speakers of a "calibrated" 5.1, 7.1 or however many channels this system might have, and the associated estimate of SP levels of at 0dB, it needs to be remembered that the room will determine how loud the system can play before the sound loses coherency, even if only on dynamic peaks.
In a relatively small room with asymmetrical acoustic properties, it's altogether possible this SP threshold could be reached well before the smoke is let out of any drivers, full-range or otherwise, or your ears start bleeding.
There's at least two types of "too damned loud", and not all necessarily result in damage to the audio equipment.
Ok chrisb, i agree with you but dont forget i am not an expert here.🙂 nevertheless, i might see if i can buy a cheap sound level meter to "learn" more from this experiment. How would u recommend to proceed? if i got a sound level meter would that help? how do you measure and when? and what? 🙂
to be honest currently even with the small speakers, when the volume is high,the sound level (based on ear) seems high enough but i feel it is missing mainly mid bass and possibly midrange. the high frequencies level is high enough to say, i dont want any more.
to be honest currently even with the small speakers, when the volume is high,the sound level (based on ear) seems high enough but i feel it is missing mainly mid bass and possibly midrange. the high frequencies level is high enough to say, i dont want any more.
Member
Joined 2002
The satellite receiver should have coax out tho, for your amplifier, unless its like 20 years old.
I could agree with you missing certain ranges of frequency with those little energy's, when you get your new speakers your world of sound is going to change.
J'
I could agree with you missing certain ranges of frequency with those little energy's, when you get your new speakers your world of sound is going to change.
J'
The 1st statement is far too much of a generalization. The power output of the amplifier really is irrelevant as long as it is sufficient.
dave
Member
Joined 2002
Thank's i already knew that, i was stating that the amplifier has alot of power, and built to handle hungry speaker & light speakers, however the fostex drivers originally looked at would not be a good choice at all.
Build 5 speakers of equal value equal spl and equal efficacy.
Don't let Jason discourage you from your quest. His place is probably coloured by having gone to "official" home theatre school.
I'm pretty sure that an appropriate choice of FR will suit you fine -- it does me, and i have a much larger room than yours.
And as a fall-back position, a wide-range speaker makes an ideal centre piece for a multi-way system. Jason himself has been talking about this -- he has a lovely set of ribbons, and 8" Cabasse woofers, that just need a good FR to fill in the middle.
dave
Member
Joined 2002
Gave those away, kept the ribbons tho.
Not trying to make his mind up, just letting him know that the Fostex wont take a beating from a movie. School didn't teach me that, my EYES did when installing systems in Thousands of customers homes. Big HT receivers DO NOT mix with smaller speakers, or REALLY really efficient speakers.
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