GM ,
L34 becomes the new tap when S5 is disabled and S4 becomes the new mouth....... S5 isn't necessary in some cases , like this one ......
In this box the throat chamber and port make up the majority of the box and the S1-S4 only make up the very last bit of the path .....
Take a look at this screenshot of the throat chamber setup in my wizard ... Does it look the same on your end?
(by the way , Ltc and Chamber volume both just happen to be 117 by a random coincidence, i wasn't trying to make them match on purpose or anything like that )..
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Hi GM,
Your schematic diagram should look like the attached screenprint.
Segment 1 = 0.082 litres
Segment 2 = 18.952 litres
Segment 3 = 14.008 litres
Throat chamber = 96.555 litres
Throat chamber port = 20.600 litres
Total system volume = 150.197 litres
Kind regards,
David
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Hi MMJ,
A very innovative solution, and a great example of "thinking outside the box" - no pun intended
.Kind regards,
David
Hi Brian,
Only absorbent filling material losses are allowed for.
Kind regards,
David
A very innovative solution, and a great example of "thinking outside the box" - no pun intended
Greets!
I only mentioned S5 because you included it in your description, but not used………
No, it doesn’t, but what I didn’t ‘see’ late last night with blurry eyes was enough numeral 5s in the Vtc field
, so a bunch of liters short. All’s correct now, sorry about that.Yes, I’ve used this and other combinations of fields to kludge nonstandard alignments with the LW, so thanks for all the effort, especially all the extra features we asked for that likely couldn’t/wouldn’t happen, yet have plus so much more.
Seems you’re more innovative overall than us.
GM
I should be able to get more but this is my 200 L TH vs Ported (2 drivers in both) comparison.
I'm sure the TH gods could squeeze out a few more dB but without increasing the size this is my best response to date.
*Note the dark line is TH, Ported is light grey.
The port in this case is huge to reduce port compression likelihood and the TH is a very nice <12 M/s although I really need someone to simulate what it is at the pinch off point (haven't settled on a gap size yet, working on it).
I'm sure the TH gods could squeeze out a few more dB but without increasing the size this is my best response to date.
*Note the dark line is TH, Ported is light grey.
The port in this case is huge to reduce port compression likelihood and the TH is a very nice <12 M/s although I really need someone to simulate what it is at the pinch off point (haven't settled on a gap size yet, working on it).
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This is a single fold tapped horn end firing. May be able to make it side firing but I don't like the idea of constricting the output there. Also, this thing as shown is a little longer than I had hoped 215 cm L23
You can make the low end go as long as you want if you don't mind compound folding or making it longer, Here is if you grew it to 6 feet tall (external) Next to that is 300 cm path length with a wider cabinet, tuned to 26 (f3 of 25) and that it takes a slightly smaller signal, which is accounted for in the image -- 55.7 V (. Note that the larger cabinet is 12.5 cu. ft. internal and thus is approaching T60 size (21.8) But still has more output per cubic foot (ignoring power)
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For grins this is corner loaded 300 cm path length "scaled up" version. Next to that is best case scenario '8' 4 ft external tall (185 L each internal) cabinets in a corner. Yeah I like that graph too.
I'll build for someone these 8 cabs for 6000, half up front to buy drivers and ply.
Finally, the same 8 cabinets without cheating in a corner (2pi)
This is 1-2 dB less than a TH812, but needs 8000 instead of 16000 watts. Major difference is this doesn't go near the 28 f3 unless in a corner (which is ~29.5).
TH goes for >10k. I'm only asking 6k. Throw in amp costs in that, 7.5k including 4 inuke dsp 6000's.
Any takers?
For reference that at full power is 120 dB at 16 M outside. That's what most concerts I know of run at (peaks).
I'll build for someone these 8 cabs for 6000, half up front to buy drivers and ply.
Finally, the same 8 cabinets without cheating in a corner (2pi)
This is 1-2 dB less than a TH812, but needs 8000 instead of 16000 watts. Major difference is this doesn't go near the 28 f3 unless in a corner (which is ~29.5).
TH goes for >10k. I'm only asking 6k. Throw in amp costs in that, 7.5k including 4 inuke dsp 6000's.
Any takers?
For reference that at full power is 120 dB at 16 M outside. That's what most concerts I know of run at (peaks).
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GM,
Your right, referring to post #556 correct? It should have read: "then it opens back up where the tap and mouth are (S1 through S4).... I guess it is just a habit to think of them as S1-S5 .... It would be great if i were able to go back and edit that post but this forum doesn't allow edits a day later , i really wish they would allow an extended edit cutoff though because i sometimes don't spot the typo/error (or it isn't brought to my attention) until it is too late ........ I think i am just going to have to proofread more carefully ...
No, it doesn’t, but what I didn’t ‘see’ late last night with blurry eyes was enough numeral 5s in the Vtc field
GM
Glad you got it worked out
I was starting to wonder if different versions of HR might handle this unorthodox config differently..... and yes, David's software is nothing short of magnificent, with it's magic combo of user friendliness and flexibility, adaptable and versatile ..... It is fun to figure out all of the different ways that things can be arranged in this software
Maybe in the future he would allow BOTH the throat chamber(+port) along with a "rear vented" chamber simultaneously which would support weird & wacky stuff like 8th order variants with quarter wave actions etc.....
GM[/QUOTE]
Here is ML-Transflex for Lab15 (special) version 3.1
The Tapped, Squeezed and refolded remix ... better than ever ...
Ready to go shopping for ply BeauB?
Path length in this box turned out better than i thought! Width had to be increased in order to offset airspace taken up by internal panels while also maintaining path area and lengths to match the HR model, but it is all worked out now
Around 7 foot of path length with the mass loading puts our FB right at 35hz ...
If i were a salesman i suppose the selling points would be much like before and they are as follows :
(for more enjoyment just imagine the following spoken by a high energy guy with an infomercial voice and a terrible suit, because it is better that way)
- Great output and extension down to the fundamental, meets rated linear excursion of this driver right at it's thermal power rating of 600 watts! So it is very well balanced in terms of well matched mechanical and thermal limits..
- Designed with 3/4" material in mind. Internal volume taken up by panels is compensated for, and then some (add 1/2 inch holed ply braces to the back panel and bottom panel if you like) .
- Driver fits into this box revision easily with some additional room to spare .. Easy access to driver... No removable panel required.
- Magnet in mouth (especially being the high velocity end of the pipe) provides superior motor cooling which results in less thermal compression, longer life and more output!
- Group delay , velocity, and phase response are all kept within acceptable bounds throughout the working range ..
- 32hz to 150hz useable response (3db down at 32hz with single cabinet)
- Very easy to add or experiment with optional damping and filling materials..
- Simple design, easy to build, reoccurring measurements throughout! , no difficult angles and no intricate woodwork involved... No wasted internal space ..Very efficient use of cabinet volume.. Thanks to Greg B and his Karlsonator for the fold inspiration ..
- acoustically shortened path by use of a mass loading constriction, which is a long vent at 50% of the main pipe's area, velocity at the port should not ever exceed 20 m/s in worst case scenario in the real world, with full power applied.(calculated by multiplying the velocity at mouth (*2 for the 2:1 mouth/port area ratio)
- Very affordable driver and low build cost for this class of performance
If anyone makes the mistake of sending me three easy payments of 19.95 + S & H i will probably just keep the money and refer them to this post, or maybe i will send them my used "Super Shamwow", or a used food dehydrator, or a bottle of spray paint for your bald spot ........ but i am keeping the George Foreman Grill dammit! ...
Sorry for not responding sooner.
Thank you - this looks to be perfect.
Building to start soon ....
Hi MMJ,
A very innovative solution, and a great example of "thinking outside the box" - no pun intended
Kind regards,
David
Thanks David!
It was the one method i could find to create this particular shape in HR ... I really wanted to try some odd and obscure arrangements to see if anything useful could be devised ....... It turns out that this ML-Transflex design is very similar to the Karlsonator , but the Karlsonator cannot be simmed in HR with accuracy because HR doesn't support adding expansion/taper to the throat chamber (and also reports a warning if ATC is less than Driver's SD) .......... The ML-Transflex doesn't have expansion in that section, so HR supports it perfectly!
(well, ok, to be fair "perfectly" with the exception of the lack of driver offset in the throat chamber, but i think that any difference in response due to the small offset would be very minor and nothing to be concerned about....
If it turns out that the offset would make the box seem a little underdamped in the real world then the entire box could actually be made a little smaller!) by the way David , i don't know what we did to deserve that sort of PUNishment
hehe
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BeauB,
Magnificent!
Be sure to post pictures and impressions
, and if you need any suggestions about where bracings and stuffing/filling should go just let me know and i can post another sketch .. .
Saba,
Those graphs are showing some pretty monstrous output, for low cost herds .... If any venue takes you up on one of these deals you might want to have them sign a waiver saying that you wont be held liable for any structural damage done to their building
Freddi ,
Yep ! The constricted area later in the path accomplishes pretty much the same thing in both of our boxes (low tuning with a shortened path length, smaller box) , it doesn't matter if the reduction in pipe area are done in abrupt steps or a long drawn out change in area, bass does not seem to care either way ...
I would liken these cabs to a stretched out BVR, tapped, and with more quarter wave action support ...
It think it is also similar to the CUBO design with a much longer path which should equate to improved performance over a Cubo ...
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I don't doubt at all that much of the smoothing that we see in real-world cabs are due to losses from panel flex, lack of bracing and so on ....It might also be possible that the one guy's theory about David's LE algorithm being inaccurate is bogus ...
The effects of inductance are interesting though, i would have thought that high voicecoil inductance would mainly just cause attenuation of upper frequency response , but what we see it doing to the lower response in our sims is notable ...
With doubling of the LE: underdamped saddle responses flatten out , and initially flat responses turn into overdamped humps with shallow roll-offs .....
It all leads me to think that drivers with lower LE figures could work well in boxes that are slightly smaller (If all other driver parameters are the same in our hypothetical example)...
I am posting a screenshot to show what influence on response the doubled LE has upon this particular Lab cab (a single cabinet at 600w) ... Not a whole heck of a lot of difference, but it is there ..... and the measured response of this will most likely resemble the black line instead of the grey line , but due to what factors? Its hard to say .... What i do know is that i have seen some of your (Brian's) tapped horn measurements compared to sim with stock LE (i think it was POC#3?) and the curves matched up very well if i remember correctly ....That box was well braced , so that supports what you say about the curves of built boxes being more altered by panel flex losses as opposed to some issue with LE in sims ...
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Hi MMJ,
Unfortunately it would require much too much work to integrate the necessary changes into Hornresp - most parts of the program would be affected, one way or another.
AkAbak is better suited to the "weird & wacky stuff"
.Kind regards,
David
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