New Seas tweeters tested

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#22
yea, I though there were some RS mids speakers around. havent seen to many, but their out there. I'm going to go look at the different versions.

after learning how crossovers work, I can even change them to my tastes and budget. not as complicated as I taught.
 
#23
"Sooner or later I'm sure I'll get to some ribbon tweeters...."

Zaph - have you ever tested (or heard) the Thiel ceramic drivers? I'd be very interested in how these would stack up against your other favorites. Please let us know if/when this is in your plans!
 
#24
sdclc126 said:
"Sooner or later I'm sure I'll get to some ribbon tweeters...."

Zaph - have you ever tested (or heard) the Thiel ceramic drivers? I'd be very interested in how these would stack up against your other favorites. Please let us know if/when this is in your plans!
Click to expand...

I heard some Accuton drivers in a commercial system and wasn't impressed, but I blame the design, not the drivers.

Accuton drivers are very expensive, and it's not likely that I'll ever buy a pair myself. I do often test drivers for other people but I've found an interesting fact: The more expensive a driver is, the less that driver's owner wants them tested. This is because that expensive driver is an investment, and the owner does not want them devalued by showing it being outperformed by a budget tweeter. Showing test results, which may not look all that great, removes the mystique of exotic drivers.

As a result, drivers like the ridiculously expensive Diamond D20-6 will never be tested. Nobody wants to hear that their new $2600 tweeter is outperformed by a $30 Seas.

The cost of a driver is essentially R&D + tooling setup + production costs + company overhead divided by # of units sold. If the number of total units sold is only 50, it's easy to see how we end up with a $2600 tweeter even if it's no better than a budget unit. Vifa probably did 10 times more research on their ring radiator than Accuton did on their diamond dome, but they can still sell it to vendors for a cost of $20. It's easy to make up costs when there's thousands of ring radiators in Polk speakers all over the world.

So, I'm perfectly willing to test these "interesting" exotic drivers but it's not likely to find someone willing to have them tested. No worries, we're probably not missing anything special.
 
#25
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting for us lurkers.

The bit about owners' fear of devalued imaginations after testing sounds alot like how a certain really big car magazine can't get ferrarri, lamborghini, etc owners out to track days even with professional drivers, but lots of modded vipers, vettes etc.

Cheers
 
#26
As a result, drivers like the ridiculously expensive Diamond D20-6 will never be tested. Nobody wants to hear that their new $2600 tweeter is outperformed by a $30 Seas.

Imagine saying this on the HT forum .. I see the mob
coming to your house holding pitchforks ...

:smash: :smash: Where is Dr. Zaphenstien? ..................:smash: :smash:
 
#27
Zaph that was a fantastic post...

so completely true from the couple speaker systems I've heard that diamond tweet in... both the AV eidilion diamond and the BW 800 speakers (I've heard 805, 803, 801, and 800 listening for 20-30 min each)...

pretty much any tweeter I've used and have experience with otherwise (Seas Millenium, Ribbons, etc) were superior in sonics in every possible way...

😉
 
#28
sdclc126 said:
"Sooner or later I'm sure I'll get to some ribbon tweeters...."

Zaph - have you ever tested (or heard) the Thiel ceramic drivers? I'd be very interested in how these would stack up against your other favorites. Please let us know if/when this is in your plans!
Click to expand...

Which ones are you interested in? I've only tested the c44 preliminarily. It did test very well, somewhat better than the morel mdt55. But these are kind of odd birds, since few folks design with 2" dome type drivers.
 
#29
I must say that this is one of the most interesting and informative threads I've ever read here, in terms of the things I've been trying to learn about.

Just as bigger isn't always better, neither, apparently, is more expensive. If there is no audible difference between a $30 SEAS tweeter and a $2600 Accuton diamond - indeed, if the "cheapy" actually sounds better - we know where we will be putting our money.

I think we should all give big round of "cyber applause" to members like Zaph, who's knowledge and expertise in these matters is invaluable and has probably guided scores of us in building top quality speakers at sensible costs.

OK Zaph - we've covered tweeters - how about mids and woofs now? 😀

Actually I'm going to look back at this thread as I think there were one or two postings about mids a way back, and I believe your site talks about this, but anyway - what are your picks in these categories?

Thanks again, for myself and whoever else I may be speaking for.
 
#30
ucla88 said:


Which ones are you interested in? I've only tested the c44 preliminarily. It did test very well, somewhat better than the morel mdt55. But these are kind of odd birds, since few folks design with 2" dome type drivers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding, but to be honest I'm not interested in any particular one, but the ceramic category as a whole - since the material itself is so light and stiff, and ceramics have many other uses in industry that other materials simply can't match, I had assumed they would automatically make a superior driver.

But I guess what looks good on paper, especially in terms of manufactuers' claims, doesn't necessarily pan out in real world experience. I'm sure they're good, but the price, whether due to production costs or anything else, will always make people think twice when there are so many other more "conventional" drivers at a fraction of the cost.
 
#31
In the case of the c44, I think the cone material is pretty good. Breakup is controlled well outside the passband. To a large extent though, nonlinear distortion is controlled by the motor design. Folks get sucked into exotic cones and forget about the motors.

I will post my c44 results on my site one of these days, but I need to finish up my testing and cut some new baffles.

Mark K
 
#32
^--- Look forward to seeing that, Mark, I am interested in the low-high freq range they can go reliably.

Also, thanks for the great info, Zaph, always look forward to your posts. I also second (or third or 4th, whatever) the 'can you test a ribbon' group. LCY would be nice (heh, and pricy), but the Fountek or BG would be good, just to get a comparison.
 
#33
ucla88 said:
In the case of the c44, I think the cone material is pretty good. Breakup is controlled well outside the passband. To a large extent though, nonlinear distortion is controlled by the motor design. Folks get sucked into exotic cones and forget about the motors.

I will post my c44 results on my site one of these days, but I need to finish up my testing and cut some new baffles.

Mark K
Click to expand...


I looked at your web site, and noticed you used the Praxis system, what sound card and mic do you use to get up to 50K data?
 
#37
"Simply put, because it *is* the best in the group, even regardless of cost. If the Millennium only cost $30, I'd still buy the 27TBFCG. Of course the build quality of the Millennium is excellent. I love the thick metal frame. But the 27TBFCG sounds and measures better. So does the 27TDFC and several other tweeters for that matter. "-Zaph


I've done a little looking around and I really like Dr. K's MTMs, but after reading the tweeter mishmash article, I wonder if I could make a better system by using the 27TBFCG? I know I'd have to start from scratch with the X/O, but I've got SoundEasy and a mic...now I just have to learn how to use it.

Also, are the Seas aluminum cone 7" drivers any improvement over the daytons? If there was an improvement and it was noticable, I'd get the Seas units, other than that, I'll just save some cash thankyouverymuch!😀
 
#39
Aaron M. said:
Also, are the Seas aluminum cone 7" drivers any improvement over the daytons? If there was an improvement and it was noticable, I'd get the Seas units, other than that, I'll just save some cash thankyouverymuch!😀
Click to expand...

Mark K's tests sum it up nicely. I prefer the L18 because it's a little more behaved in the 1-2kHz range. It lets me get away with a very simple crossover at a normal frequency.

I think the RS180 needs to cross very steep and low to avoid it's response and energy storage issues. Once you do that, the crossover ends up costing quite a bit. Nice driver, but the value isn't quite as high as many people are saying.

I've tested a total of 8 Dayton RS28's. 2 pairs were test samples from PE, but people have been anxious to have theirs tested to make sure they don't have a defective pair. (note to all - I'm not testing any more RS28's) There's absolutely no question in my mind that both the Seas 27TDFC and 27TBFCG are better tweeters.

If you want to use the RS180's in an MTM, I'd recommend Jon Marsh's version with the 27TDFC. It's not going to be cheap with more money spent on crossover parts than drivers, but based on my experience with those drivers, that's the way to do it. Note that you could probably drop the 27TBFCG into that design with little or no change.
 
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