Who build a megawatt discoteca and has never used scanpeak can not understand why their musical sophistication.
There is section for subwoofer here ....
There is section for subwoofer here ....
nicoch46 said:
If I had the money I'd be trying this as a midrange in a 3-way, with a larger driver for the bass. The long excursion allows one to cross over low to the bass driver, which is a big plus in my opinion. Alas, I do not have the space or money, but I don't understand why you'd want to stop at a small 2-way unless you had to (many of us do have to, sadly!).
A 2way with EQ is said to be pretty impressive
A 3way is not that easy to get right...you winn some and you loose some
It is simply wrong to say that one is better than the other
In the end it may come down to what type of music you are playing, and the "if, how and why" may determine whether it makes sense or if it is a complete waste of energy and money
A 3way is not that easy to get right...you winn some and you loose some
It is simply wrong to say that one is better than the other
In the end it may come down to what type of music you are playing, and the "if, how and why" may determine whether it makes sense or if it is a complete waste of energy and money
Has anyone actually heard the new Illuminator drivers playing music?
Public demos, industry previews, etc?
Public demos, industry previews, etc?
vasyachkin said:to me 6" diameter is an equally artificial limitation ... i see no point in paying for a 6" woofer when there are good 18" ones.
now a good 6" midrange would be nice ... but there already is one ... it also uses an underhung neodymium motor but unfortunately there is no choice of materials for the cone, instead the only material available is better than anything scan-speak will ever offer
6" Midrange
i would rather take the above midrange and the following woofer
18" woofer
build a 3-way and laugh hysterically at anybody who bought the illuminator ....
oh yeah, almost forgot, if you like small speakers ... buy bose ...
Thank goodness for diversity. Whilst I respect your opinion on what components, cone material, woofer size etc. make up a good speaker I wouldn't do it that way. Instead of impressing upon people what you think are the best options its better to let folks make their own mind up. Just because something worked for you doesn't mean it has universal appeal. Surely you realise differences of opinion on something as subjective and usage dependant as a loudspeaker isn't as clear cut as saying "right way" or "wrong way". I also wouldn't be so cruel as to laugh hysterically once you'd built your 3-way 😀
We know you dislike the illuminator already without having heard it because of your strong preferences and design philosophy. Its good that you have such direction, it'll help once you start building whatever it is you have planned.
nicoch46 said:
im using one scan-speak driver in my car. its a 1.5" dome mid-tweeter and i like it a lot. but the 1.5" i have is the exact opposite of the illuminator. its a unique driver that allowed me to implement a unique system and it was reasonably priced.
i think the new illuminator tweeter is promising though. maybe one day i will use it. the very small faceplate of the new tweeter is as serious an advantage as the small diameter of the woofer is a serious disadvantage.
ps: im not sure why you're trying to deny that this 6" illuminator is a woofer ... i dont know any midranges with 10mm xmax.
ShinOBIWAN said:
ok ill unsubscribe myself from this thread since my point is already made here 🙂
from http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO.htm
"The magnesium drivers have more black background behind the instruments, but Nextel drivers are not far behind. Even with 100 watt amplifier the TJL2 sound recessed in dynamic and with closed in presence region. Here with CNO is totally different story. My 100 watt amplifier sound like 300 watt monster. Maybe I will add some high bias A class Aleph 3 amplifier in future:
The sound from CNO is very clean, relaxing and extremely dynamic. Compared to Proac 2.5 and TJL2 with CNO the music breath. Every instrument has more air around it. Even some old Blue note compilations sound very good. Maybe there is a little more lifted presence, but I never find it disturbed or unpleasant. T29CF001 is one of the best I have ever heard. It reminds me of some magnetostatic tweeters. Clean, relaxed and forget about siblings sssshhh here. It is quite powerful too. I listen quite loud to some brass / trumpet / Chesky music samples without any harshness or discomfort. The female voices are incredible...Only the bass is quite shy for now...probably it needs few hours of suspension massage more to sound more full.
For now I can only say with CNO you really did the great 2 way project...🙂 "
"The magnesium drivers have more black background behind the instruments, but Nextel drivers are not far behind. Even with 100 watt amplifier the TJL2 sound recessed in dynamic and with closed in presence region. Here with CNO is totally different story. My 100 watt amplifier sound like 300 watt monster. Maybe I will add some high bias A class Aleph 3 amplifier in future:
The sound from CNO is very clean, relaxing and extremely dynamic. Compared to Proac 2.5 and TJL2 with CNO the music breath. Every instrument has more air around it. Even some old Blue note compilations sound very good. Maybe there is a little more lifted presence, but I never find it disturbed or unpleasant. T29CF001 is one of the best I have ever heard. It reminds me of some magnetostatic tweeters. Clean, relaxed and forget about siblings sssshhh here. It is quite powerful too. I listen quite loud to some brass / trumpet / Chesky music samples without any harshness or discomfort. The female voices are incredible...Only the bass is quite shy for now...probably it needs few hours of suspension massage more to sound more full.
For now I can only say with CNO you really did the great 2 way project...🙂 "
this new driver from seas.....
troels :
"Magnesium drivers will sound like magnesium drivers; ceramic drivers will sound like ceramic drivers and polyprop drivers will sound like - - polyprop drivers. Don't be mistaken here. Whatever material is used for speaker cones, they will all have their own distinctive way of reproducing sound. Hardcones may sound slightly "clean and sterile" (Read: I miss the colouration of my old paper cones) and polyprop usually have been characterised by having a smoother and more forgiving sound (Read: It allows me to hear all my old and poorly recorded records).
is clear that we need sinergy: personal taste-room-dac-amp
troels :
"Magnesium drivers will sound like magnesium drivers; ceramic drivers will sound like ceramic drivers and polyprop drivers will sound like - - polyprop drivers. Don't be mistaken here. Whatever material is used for speaker cones, they will all have their own distinctive way of reproducing sound. Hardcones may sound slightly "clean and sterile" (Read: I miss the colouration of my old paper cones) and polyprop usually have been characterised by having a smoother and more forgiving sound (Read: It allows me to hear all my old and poorly recorded records).
is clear that we need sinergy: personal taste-room-dac-amp
vasyachkin said:
Its primary function is a mid/bass driver for a 2-way or 2-way + sub. 6.5" is kind of a sweet spot here since it extends quite well and the off axis performance is fairly uniform upto 2Khz where crossing to a tweeter whilst achieving good integration, uniform rolloff and similar directivity is a beneficial to good design. For designs where this is a goal or preference then its somewhat more difficult to shoe horn a 10" or 12" mid/bass in its place.
Another application is as a midrange. You could bring it in at 100-200hz and run it up to the tweeter with all the benefits mentioned for the 2way. With the 5" driver you could run it up to 3 or even 4Khz and cross to a tweeter for a truly wideband mid (pending response measurements of illuminator).
I wouldn't consider this a woofer, its an extended mid/bass driver at best.
Yes
6.5 midwoofer
8" ibrid, small for woofer big for two way
10" woofer
good are MTM 5.25 ,cone is not heavy i.e. fast and go up
6.5 midwoofer
8" ibrid, small for woofer big for two way
10" woofer
good are MTM 5.25 ,cone is not heavy i.e. fast and go up
the ability of SS are make a 5,25 that have bass as 6.5" standard and 6.5 as 8"standard .
Unluckly I know well only SS ,I want explore seas-at, ribbon,and why not fullrange in OB !
Unluckly I know well only SS ,I want explore seas-at, ribbon,and why not fullrange in OB !
vasyachkin said:
I think you misunderstood my assertion of the worth of this page. Right now, all we have to go on for this speaker are manufacturer's claimed specifications.
What's the first lesson we all learn in speaker building? Measure your OWN drivers to get the TS params and other data.
Not only that, but we haven't seen response curves or any other quantifications on these besides pictures (and they are sexy photos...).
So when I say it's worthless, I'm talking about all the speculation.
I find it interesting to discuss the known technical features but to speculate on how they might perform is of limited use to me. especially without knowing the price. if you think they're going to be dung priced like diamonds, then it's an easy decision to make.
"ok ill unsubscribe myself from this thread since my point is already made here "
Thank you very much! 😀
Thank you very much! 😀
i read this whole thread out of sheer interrest for the scanspeak Illuminators woofers, and all along i was being deeply annoyed with vasyachkin arrogant attitude.
At the beginning i thought "Ah that's at the beginning of the thread so i wont have an opportunity to answer".
But to my pleasure and the pleasure of all people interrested in those "so ridiculous" 2 ways systems with a 6,5" woofer, he is very persistant.
SO vasyachkin, you're being very quick in giving lessons to other people. I'm no speaker expert so you be warned, i still have tons to learn.
Just to remind to you your own words :
"weight is a resource just like money and space. resources should not be squandered, they should be used frugally. underhung motors do not use resources frugally."
like SPACE did you say ? omg so you agree with me. I'm a diyer, and living in paris, in a small flat being merely about 50 square meters. Useless to say that i can forgot your 18" woofer, that due to neighbours, even a 10" sub is merely out of the question.
And i'm yet happy not to be in a japanese city and living in an even smaller space.
so well i thought after that that you may be someone with a little bit empathy, but i was thinking too quickly, and i'm intentionnally forgetting your worse posts here to be kind with you
i particularly like your attack about "lifestyle" and bose at the end of the post. One of the most respected diyer around , John "zaph" Krutke is now struck with speakers with 4" woofers and being amazed by them, cause he's now having a baby and doesn't have more room for listening to music. AND !!!! 😱 he is american , do you believe it !
Yeah some people like to build speakers also for looks, don't particularly like the looks of 18" woofers just cause it is too big to fit in they're living space, and that's a consideration 80% of the actual diyers in the world have to take into account.
So YES , in this particular set of compromises, Illuminators woofer MAY be an interresting option for some people, wich represent to your displeasure a big proportion of the diy community, and that is the reason Tymphany is succesfull , may you like it or not.
Because in the specific domain of 6,5" drivers reproducing both bass and midrange, scanspeak has been one of the brand giving among the best products, both in the domain of linear and non-linear distortion,looks (omg sorry), and consistency ...
Cause accuton may have one of the best cone material ever, but they've been know to deliver batch of drivers so different from each other that you can consider them truely as different drivers
And theses new drivers looks like having some worthwile features if a 6,5 woofer is what you're after.
i hope you understand and almost feel sorry for elitists people like you. I liked your sentence about ressources. The fact that you're totally unable to observe it in your behaviour, even in it's most basics consequences is hilarious.
laugh hysterically if you want, im being serious, despite the tone. your attitude is really a pity. Some people have different goals and beliefs than you. Having self esteem is good. Being so arrogant on a forum just because you believe into something so strongly is ridiculous.
and by the way, i would love to have this 3 way system with Accuton midrange and the Aura 18, and i truely agree that considering pure sound reproduction, you're 99% right in what you say. I just cant have it, and that is not about price.
If you don't understand,so be it.
At the beginning i thought "Ah that's at the beginning of the thread so i wont have an opportunity to answer".
But to my pleasure and the pleasure of all people interrested in those "so ridiculous" 2 ways systems with a 6,5" woofer, he is very persistant.
SO vasyachkin, you're being very quick in giving lessons to other people. I'm no speaker expert so you be warned, i still have tons to learn.
Just to remind to you your own words :
"weight is a resource just like money and space. resources should not be squandered, they should be used frugally. underhung motors do not use resources frugally."
like SPACE did you say ? omg so you agree with me. I'm a diyer, and living in paris, in a small flat being merely about 50 square meters. Useless to say that i can forgot your 18" woofer, that due to neighbours, even a 10" sub is merely out of the question.
And i'm yet happy not to be in a japanese city and living in an even smaller space.
so well i thought after that that you may be someone with a little bit empathy, but i was thinking too quickly, and i'm intentionnally forgetting your worse posts here to be kind with you
i particularly like your attack about "lifestyle" and bose at the end of the post. One of the most respected diyer around , John "zaph" Krutke is now struck with speakers with 4" woofers and being amazed by them, cause he's now having a baby and doesn't have more room for listening to music. AND !!!! 😱 he is american , do you believe it !
Yeah some people like to build speakers also for looks, don't particularly like the looks of 18" woofers just cause it is too big to fit in they're living space, and that's a consideration 80% of the actual diyers in the world have to take into account.
So YES , in this particular set of compromises, Illuminators woofer MAY be an interresting option for some people, wich represent to your displeasure a big proportion of the diy community, and that is the reason Tymphany is succesfull , may you like it or not.
Because in the specific domain of 6,5" drivers reproducing both bass and midrange, scanspeak has been one of the brand giving among the best products, both in the domain of linear and non-linear distortion,looks (omg sorry), and consistency ...
Cause accuton may have one of the best cone material ever, but they've been know to deliver batch of drivers so different from each other that you can consider them truely as different drivers
And theses new drivers looks like having some worthwile features if a 6,5 woofer is what you're after.
i hope you understand and almost feel sorry for elitists people like you. I liked your sentence about ressources. The fact that you're totally unable to observe it in your behaviour, even in it's most basics consequences is hilarious.
laugh hysterically if you want, im being serious, despite the tone. your attitude is really a pity. Some people have different goals and beliefs than you. Having self esteem is good. Being so arrogant on a forum just because you believe into something so strongly is ridiculous.
and by the way, i would love to have this 3 way system with Accuton midrange and the Aura 18, and i truely agree that considering pure sound reproduction, you're 99% right in what you say. I just cant have it, and that is not about price.
If you don't understand,so be it.
HI, new info:
Tymphany has planned the first 4-5 product to be released for production in March-April 2008, which means we will be able to ship the first customer samples late march 2008 and production units in April-May, prices are not yet fixed, but will be above the Revelator line, prices will be available at the time when the first products are ready for sample shipment!
Tymphany has planned the first 4-5 product to be released for production in March-April 2008, which means we will be able to ship the first customer samples late march 2008 and production units in April-May, prices are not yet fixed, but will be above the Revelator line, prices will be available at the time when the first products are ready for sample shipment!
Why beryllium ??
from humble homemade hifi:
The Focal Utopia TBe is a high efficiency tweeter with a 25 mm lightweight pure beryllium inverted dome. Beryllium's density is 2.5 times lower than titanium and 1.5 times lower than aluminium while its rigidity is 3 times higher than titanium and 5 times superior to aluminium. Which means that for a dome of identical mass, a beryllium version is 7 times more rigid than one made of titanium or aluminium - which have similar rigidity for a given mass. Moreover, the velocity of sound in a beryllium dome is 3 times faster than a titanium version and 2.5 times faster than aluminium. However, the manufacturing of beryllium remains very difficult and its production has been limited to just three countries: the United States, France and Russia. To date, Great Britain, Germany and Japan do not manufacture pure beryllium, rather using it in the form of an alloy. Beryllium is an excellent high-tech metal - the only metal able to scratch glass - it is only used in strategic applications in the aeronautical and military industries and consequently, its unique characteristics make it extraordinarily expensive, much more than gold and nearly 100 times that of titanium. And the result is an outstandingly detailed loudspeaker which extends to nearly 40 KHz while maintaining a perfect impulse response........ 😉
from humble homemade hifi:
The Focal Utopia TBe is a high efficiency tweeter with a 25 mm lightweight pure beryllium inverted dome. Beryllium's density is 2.5 times lower than titanium and 1.5 times lower than aluminium while its rigidity is 3 times higher than titanium and 5 times superior to aluminium. Which means that for a dome of identical mass, a beryllium version is 7 times more rigid than one made of titanium or aluminium - which have similar rigidity for a given mass. Moreover, the velocity of sound in a beryllium dome is 3 times faster than a titanium version and 2.5 times faster than aluminium. However, the manufacturing of beryllium remains very difficult and its production has been limited to just three countries: the United States, France and Russia. To date, Great Britain, Germany and Japan do not manufacture pure beryllium, rather using it in the form of an alloy. Beryllium is an excellent high-tech metal - the only metal able to scratch glass - it is only used in strategic applications in the aeronautical and military industries and consequently, its unique characteristics make it extraordinarily expensive, much more than gold and nearly 100 times that of titanium. And the result is an outstandingly detailed loudspeaker which extends to nearly 40 KHz while maintaining a perfect impulse response........ 😉
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