About 2 weeks ago i got a message from UPS that they could not sign out the package containing our first production run of NCD1.
It was missing from a warehouse in Italy, which also i have posted here before. Since then they have been looking for it everywhere, but yesterday i got the message, that it will not be found again, and the search is now closed.
But already when i got the first message, i initiated the reproduction of a new batch of PCB's for new modules, just in case this would happen. So i guess it turned out to be the lucky decisicion. (Out of a 50/50 chance). 😎
Now in about a week time i will receive new PCB's and all the components are here already this monday. So i am ready and back on tracks very soon.
Then a new attempt will be made, and we should end up with the 3 weeks of delay from the initial release date of 15th August.
Just to let you all know what is going on.
The good side of this is, that i of course had the opportunity to rectify a couple of minor issues, such as replace the feedback network, that was disputed by 'another Class D house', with something even better, plus some other small things.
It was missing from a warehouse in Italy, which also i have posted here before. Since then they have been looking for it everywhere, but yesterday i got the message, that it will not be found again, and the search is now closed.
But already when i got the first message, i initiated the reproduction of a new batch of PCB's for new modules, just in case this would happen. So i guess it turned out to be the lucky decisicion. (Out of a 50/50 chance). 😎
Now in about a week time i will receive new PCB's and all the components are here already this monday. So i am ready and back on tracks very soon.
Then a new attempt will be made, and we should end up with the 3 weeks of delay from the initial release date of 15th August.
Just to let you all know what is going on.
The good side of this is, that i of course had the opportunity to rectify a couple of minor issues, such as replace the feedback network, that was disputed by 'another Class D house', with something even better, plus some other small things.
Lars,
I do hope it was properly insured and you'll at least be getting a monetary refund, time lost will not be compensated for of course. Unfortunately I've had this happen to me many times over the course of the last few years. It is unfortunate, but true to Murphy's law it always happens to packages that you are anxiously waiting for to arrive, at least that's my experience.
Best regards,
Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com
I do hope it was properly insured and you'll at least be getting a monetary refund, time lost will not be compensated for of course. Unfortunately I've had this happen to me many times over the course of the last few years. It is unfortunate, but true to Murphy's law it always happens to packages that you are anxiously waiting for to arrive, at least that's my experience.
Best regards,
Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com
Sander: Thank You for the concern, very nice of you!
Of course some of the value lost will be replaced by insurance, so i will survive 🙂 But also i wait to get the many modules out, that people have ordered, to keep everybody happy.
But based on this and what you say Sander, i will make sure next time i send something important with a courier, i will have it well insured for value at least.
Best regards
Of course some of the value lost will be replaced by insurance, so i will survive 🙂 But also i wait to get the many modules out, that people have ordered, to keep everybody happy.
But based on this and what you say Sander, i will make sure next time i send something important with a courier, i will have it well insured for value at least.
Best regards
Lars.... Will the last day for the pre order offer also be "delayed" 3 weeks or is it still 15:th of August?
Matsen: The pre-order option will stop on Aug 15th as planned. Until now i have had huge interest in the new modules, and received many more pre orders than expected, and i appreciate that very much.
And so i think it's a good thing to have a little bit of time in between pre-orders and the slightly higher priced 'same day delivery' option.
All the best from
Lars
And so i think it's a good thing to have a little bit of time in between pre-orders and the slightly higher priced 'same day delivery' option.
All the best from
Lars
Hi,
I've been busy working on my UCD amp, little bit of a re-wire job to bring it up to snuff. I'll be working on the NewClassD over the weekend, and will only be testing it in unbalanced mode with pre filter feedback for now.
I'll be using different speaker wires than I have for my UCD amp, same stuff really, but a smaller gauge. 10AWG for UCD and 12 for NewClassD.
I'm not too worried about this difference because it's still a very respectable gauge, and the real bottleneck between the two systems will be the power supplies, which I'll be forced to take into account as a weighting factor when I listen to it, at least for the time being. I"ll be looking for soundstage, imaging, resolution, coherency, neutrality (where I have the feeling it will excel) so that I can evaluate it as fairly as possible given the obvious constraints.
I've been busy working on my UCD amp, little bit of a re-wire job to bring it up to snuff. I'll be working on the NewClassD over the weekend, and will only be testing it in unbalanced mode with pre filter feedback for now.
I'll be using different speaker wires than I have for my UCD amp, same stuff really, but a smaller gauge. 10AWG for UCD and 12 for NewClassD.
I'm not too worried about this difference because it's still a very respectable gauge, and the real bottleneck between the two systems will be the power supplies, which I'll be forced to take into account as a weighting factor when I listen to it, at least for the time being. I"ll be looking for soundstage, imaging, resolution, coherency, neutrality (where I have the feeling it will excel) so that I can evaluate it as fairly as possible given the obvious constraints.
Wire is wire or is it?
Chris,
I have no problem with using two different gauges of wire as you are doing as long as they are the same type and even the same vendor. Both are overkill as you stated. Plating or insulation differences can cause quite obvious sonic differences and I don't think you want to be evaluating wire instead of amps.
Roger
Chris,
I have no problem with using two different gauges of wire as you are doing as long as they are the same type and even the same vendor. Both are overkill as you stated. Plating or insulation differences can cause quite obvious sonic differences and I don't think you want to be evaluating wire instead of amps.
Roger
soongsc said:
Hi Chris
It's OK if you just spend an hour listening to it, and post your listening impressions. You don't have to stage a grand comparison between the two brands. Can always do that later.
All the best
Re: Wire is wire or is it?
I have the feeling everybody needs to relax a bit... I'm positive Chris will come up with a fair comparison in time, even more so if 'we the crowd' don't get nitty gritty about small details. Let's just wait and see. Have fun auditioning Chris 😎
There are several factors that will most likely swamp the tiny difference in gauge wire. For example:sx881663 said:
Chris, be sure, I'm not trying to pick at you by highlighting that sentence. I'd just like to put a perspective on the audition conditions: everybody, as in everybody, has preconceptions and most of the time, out sensory data will try to match them if possible. Since the differences between amps aren't breathtakingly large 😉, it wouldn't be too hard to be influenced by suggestion, making the wire difference rather irrelevant.classd4sure said:
I have the feeling everybody needs to relax a bit... I'm positive Chris will come up with a fair comparison in time, even more so if 'we the crowd' don't get nitty gritty about small details. Let's just wait and see. Have fun auditioning Chris 😎
Hi Hans,
I appreciate your comments. Regarding preconceptions I'm well aware of the phenomena you mentioned. As DIYers in audio we're likely to encounter that more frequently than anyone else. Being so aware of it as I am, helps guard against it. I can assure you it won't be a factor in my conclusions.
"I have the feeling everybody needs to relax a bit... I'm positive Chris will come up with a fair comparison in time, even more so if 'we the crowd' don't get nitty gritty about small details. Let's just wait and see. Have fun auditioning Chris "
Thank you again Sir. I can't agree more🙂 The reason I took the effort to mention the wires I'd up using was to skirt all the questions that are bound to follow later. "Oh so your speaker wires weren't the same..." etc. Outlining the differences in implementation it will have from what you can obviously call my "reference" amp, I think is just an effort to be totally transparent/honest, it doesn't at all make this a shootout which I said before a few times it wasn't going to be.
Cheers,
Chris
I appreciate your comments. Regarding preconceptions I'm well aware of the phenomena you mentioned. As DIYers in audio we're likely to encounter that more frequently than anyone else. Being so aware of it as I am, helps guard against it. I can assure you it won't be a factor in my conclusions.
"I have the feeling everybody needs to relax a bit... I'm positive Chris will come up with a fair comparison in time, even more so if 'we the crowd' don't get nitty gritty about small details. Let's just wait and see. Have fun auditioning Chris "
Thank you again Sir. I can't agree more🙂 The reason I took the effort to mention the wires I'd up using was to skirt all the questions that are bound to follow later. "Oh so your speaker wires weren't the same..." etc. Outlining the differences in implementation it will have from what you can obviously call my "reference" amp, I think is just an effort to be totally transparent/honest, it doesn't at all make this a shootout which I said before a few times it wasn't going to be.
Cheers,
Chris
Lars Clausen said:
Hi,
In case I wasn't clear enough in my intentions already I again assure everyone it's not going at all going to be a shoot out, but whether you like it or not ..... my every day system is obviously what I'm comparing it against... let's not pretend that can be helped. All the same it doesn't in any way shape or form make it a "grand comparison" or a "shoot out".. I intend to listen for and comment on the things I said I would.. independently of my reference system.. as much as possible.
If I can't listen to it for more than an hour.... ooooh you're in trouble 🙂
Cheers,
Chris
With 32000 hits this thread is now effectively the most read thread about any amplifier i have ever been involved in. And the best is, that it took only little over 2 months to get here.
Thanks for the great interest everyone 🙂
"I can assure you it won't be a factor in my conclusions."
If you're at all familiar with proper listening testing, the only way this could poissibly be true is if it's a blind test.
Do you intend to have someone switch amps for you? If not, I highly recommend it.
Or is that type of thing frowned upon around here? This forum is the first place I've seen such a combination of rational engineering thinking and along with placing credence in tiny construction details objectivists roll theirs at.
Thanks
If you're at all familiar with proper listening testing, the only way this could poissibly be true is if it's a blind test.
Do you intend to have someone switch amps for you? If not, I highly recommend it.
Or is that type of thing frowned upon around here? This forum is the first place I've seen such a combination of rational engineering thinking and along with placing credence in tiny construction details objectivists roll theirs at.
Thanks
noah katz said:
I strongly disagree.Maybe blind tests might be valuable when testing cables, painted or otherwise tweaked CDs and comparing bitrates on mp3s, but if you can't distinguish between two amplifiers without being blind I am glad that you are not testing it
😀
I'd also know the sound of my own amp straight away blindfolded or not blindfolded🙂
I'm sure we are all looking forward to reading Chris's results.
I'd say that LM6172 in the input stage is going to sound a lot different compared to the AD8620 alone, then theres going to be the actual amp circuit etc so it should be very interesting
I'm sure we are all looking forward to reading Chris's results.
I'd say that LM6172 in the input stage is going to sound a lot different compared to the AD8620 alone, then theres going to be the actual amp circuit etc so it should be very interesting
Hi,
Anzgar I agree with you there.
I don't at all bother with blind testing. Differences tend to be obvious enough.
However there truly is a "trap" whereby the results are colored by your expectations.
http://www.answers.com/topic/n-ray
I do expect NewclassD to perform better than my reference amp in certain ways, given the higher quality of stock passive components. Components which I'll later be upgrading on the reference amp.
As DIYers we make alot of upgrades to a system based on what we think we know and then we listen to see if it delivered as expected. You don't at all need blind testing Just to know if it was an improvement, how it affected things, if it was in fact an improvement or not.. it just takes an honest evaluation, different kinds of music /careful listening ... a little bit of second guessing..and when worse comes to worst a second opinion that prompts you to second guess.
Having expectations or preconceptions should for no reason exclude one from listening with an open mind.
In general though differences are obvious enough that they can't be denied.
So, you're not about to see any A/B blind testing from this guy, and as I said already, simply the awarness of the possibility of the preconception/expectation/N-Ray type trap, helps to avoid it.
Anzgar I agree with you there.
I don't at all bother with blind testing. Differences tend to be obvious enough.
However there truly is a "trap" whereby the results are colored by your expectations.
http://www.answers.com/topic/n-ray
I do expect NewclassD to perform better than my reference amp in certain ways, given the higher quality of stock passive components. Components which I'll later be upgrading on the reference amp.
As DIYers we make alot of upgrades to a system based on what we think we know and then we listen to see if it delivered as expected. You don't at all need blind testing Just to know if it was an improvement, how it affected things, if it was in fact an improvement or not.. it just takes an honest evaluation, different kinds of music /careful listening ... a little bit of second guessing..and when worse comes to worst a second opinion that prompts you to second guess.
Having expectations or preconceptions should for no reason exclude one from listening with an open mind.
In general though differences are obvious enough that they can't be denied.
So, you're not about to see any A/B blind testing from this guy, and as I said already, simply the awarness of the possibility of the preconception/expectation/N-Ray type trap, helps to avoid it.
"In general though differences are obvious enough that they can't be denied."
I can see that that's the consensus here.
How many of you have put your belief to the test?
I've seen countless cases where people were *positive* they new the sonic differences between amps, but couldn't distinguish between them in blind tests.
I'm not saying amps don't sound different, just that it's not the case nearly as much is believed.
I can see that that's the consensus here.
How many of you have put your belief to the test?
I've seen countless cases where people were *positive* they new the sonic differences between amps, but couldn't distinguish between them in blind tests.
I'm not saying amps don't sound different, just that it's not the case nearly as much is believed.
Noah, you're assuming blind testing is effective for the types of differences people say they hear. That assumption, like every assumption, should be open to question, no?
Hi Noah,
I'm not really comparing anything so much as listening for and grading, if you will, certain sonic characteristics. In other words, it is an evaluation as opposed to a comparison.
Now I will stand by what I said previously. What might be considered a minor tweak such as biasing an op amp into class A to speak results in obvious changes which you can easily discern. I haven't the inclination to put that comment to the blind test being rather satisfied with the validity of it myself.
When you then go from something so dissimilar as a completely different amplifier, it's another world entirely, otherwise we'd be likely to all be using the exact same amplifier.
I'm sure you're about some people not being able to notice a difference during blind tests, especially when it's shakti stones or magic cables or wire supports or super silent equipment racks or the countless other garbage gimmicks they often blind test. When it's something of a more substantial scientific nature however, odds are the differences are fairly apparent.
I'm not really comparing anything so much as listening for and grading, if you will, certain sonic characteristics. In other words, it is an evaluation as opposed to a comparison.
Now I will stand by what I said previously. What might be considered a minor tweak such as biasing an op amp into class A to speak results in obvious changes which you can easily discern. I haven't the inclination to put that comment to the blind test being rather satisfied with the validity of it myself.
When you then go from something so dissimilar as a completely different amplifier, it's another world entirely, otherwise we'd be likely to all be using the exact same amplifier.
I'm sure you're about some people not being able to notice a difference during blind tests, especially when it's shakti stones or magic cables or wire supports or super silent equipment racks or the countless other garbage gimmicks they often blind test. When it's something of a more substantial scientific nature however, odds are the differences are fairly apparent.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.