on my first diy here with a10.3ms, and being sucked into the rabbit hole of binding posts and wires. in all seriousness, does it really matter? wbt 0703 cu or conwork binding posts? belden 9497 or amazonbasics 16-gauge? should i really care that much for a first build?
Tone controls? 😉 From the looks of it, making a welcome comeback in increasing numbers of amplifiers. 🙂
Indeed. Applies in some way or another to almost every wideband drive unit ever built, from Jordan to Lowther, AER to Exact, MA to Wharfedale, whether for voicing or general operating purposes (for e.g, that rising response most [not all, but most] Lowthers have traditionally possessed out to about 12KHz, which a holdover from how the original drivers were intended to be used).
Manufacturers are also companies that necessarily need to turn a profit (or minimise their losses). If, to take the example mentioned above, their main distributor & part-owner asks for a drive unit with those characteristics, has input into developing it, then buys them in large quantities, they are hardly in a position to say 'no', even if they could afford to do so, which companies like MA certainly can't.
Indeed. Applies in some way or another to almost every wideband drive unit ever built, from Jordan to Lowther, AER to Exact, MA to Wharfedale, whether for voicing or general operating purposes (for e.g, that rising response most [not all, but most] Lowthers have traditionally possessed out to about 12KHz, which a holdover from how the original drivers were intended to be used).
Manufacturers are also companies that necessarily need to turn a profit (or minimise their losses). If, to take the example mentioned above, their main distributor & part-owner asks for a drive unit with those characteristics, has input into developing it, then buys them in large quantities, they are hardly in a position to say 'no', even if they could afford to do so, which companies like MA certainly can't.
Last edited:
The Jordans have a rising response, I've read it's to give a better power response and designed to be listened to off axis.
Good grief, no. Not to that kind of extent. The WBT posts are perfectly functional, but they're also jewellery. As for wire, the Belden is fine but there are plenty of alternatives of similar gauge and material (copper). You don't really need anything thicker for internal wiring.
Yes, that's what MA have done with many models, Fostex & others. Given that many wideband units have relatively limited inherent dispersion ability, a rising on-axis response is one way of compensating -how successfully depending on the design. 😉 That's one variation on the theme, but there are plenty of others & for similar purposes or alternatives. Lowther have a variation that goes back to their origins and the indirect loading expected for the units for e.g. And so it goes. Very few (they do exist) are devoid of some kind of built-in EQ. Variations exist in drivers intended for use over more limited BWs, where linear and non-linear distortion are frequently exploited / manipulated to create a desired result.
Last edited:
Given that HF usually have a reduction in HF response, including multi-ways, but very common in FRs were dispersion decreases more as the disphram size is typically larger (but don’t forget that a good dustcap will be about the size of a dometweeter).
Because of the fall-off in dispersion the on-axis has to increase to maintain some semblance of flat power response. The holy grail of FRs is the well-controlled ever shrinking effective cone size.
The pertebation of the power response is also one of the issues with BSC. Increasing the on-axis, raises the power response above flat.
dave
The 1st linked next gen posts are very good, but very expensive, you do want somethign with minimal metal, but the next gen are for those with monet to burn.
16g starnded is WAY thicker than we use. You want solid & skinny. We use a single pair of solid copper 24g wires pulled from a CAT5/6 cable. If you can find stuff w teflon insulation that is better than the PVC.
dave
This is were sitting and listening to the system and playing with positioning comes into play.
dave
I think that was the idea behind the "contraflex" cone, to control that effect, it's very difficult to find info on it.
There were and are many ways to approach the issue. Shape, varying cone thickness, multiple cones, flex, concentric ribs, midcone surrounds…
“Contrflex" is something Ted worked on for many decades. Cone shape, material, material thickness. The Mark Audio started there, and then Mark added his solid engineering background to take the concept further. Still needs work (evident by ringing at higher frequencies — those often avoided by listening off-axis. The new A7/11ms are certainly near the forefront of that tech.
dave
“Contrflex" is something Ted worked on for many decades. Cone shape, material, material thickness. The Mark Audio started there, and then Mark added his solid engineering background to take the concept further. Still needs work (evident by ringing at higher frequencies — those often avoided by listening off-axis. The new A7/11ms are certainly near the forefront of that tech.
dave
Hi,
the WBTs are nice, but expensive and unnecessery IMO. The cheap brass posts are not nice.
NEUTRIK SPEAKON is my favorite connection - works perfectly.
For fullrange driver cables and wiring, try 0,8mm pure copper wire - no magnet wire - in oversized teflon tubes, ends sealed.
All the best
Mattes
AFAIK contraflex refers to the progressive alteration of the cone flex rate with frequency. Since most of this lies in physics / mathematical theory, you're not likely to see Jordan publish large amounts of data on it as it's certainly not in the company's commercial interests to do so. Ted was a remarkable theoritician; as I understand it that was his primary area of expertise.
MA started with something similar, but they moved away from that after their first generation models in favour harder materials, with a focus on vibration rather than flex of the substrate.
MA started with something similar, but they moved away from that after their first generation models in favour harder materials, with a focus on vibration rather than flex of the substrate.
I recall seeing images of the cone with areas, rings, highlighted in red and green showing the moving and stationary areas at different frequencies IIRC.
You're thinking of the short section of the (heavily revised & shortened) Jordan Speaker Manual that was on their old site referencing full range cone design. Section 5 -it was showing concentric waves and the progressive decoupling via flex with increasing frequency on the Jordan 100mm cone.
Last edited:
ordered the amazon cable for now, as ordered with other parts too, and will order the belden one later on. cheers for your input.
maybe will have the nextgen for another build, maybe not at all. and about the cable, i should be able to find a cat5/6 cable and pull single pair from. it is a great idea, i love that!
great, then i’m taking a step back to focus on building the cabinets, and will leave that for later. so on that, i can’t find baltic birch here, and since you’re so much against mdf, which is very easy to find, what other alternatives i can consider.
best i’ve found is an indian wbp plywood (attached above ”red’), and a german lvl baubuche. which one do you reckon i should try?
thanks dave
Attachments
Got a picture of the German option? FWIW, in my 25 career in the millwork /cabinet trade, the European sourced plywoods were always of significantly higher quality than the Asian.
It was not unusual to find debris such as small gravel, and even machine nuts/bolts imbedded inside the laminated layers. Guess how we found them? Thankfully most of the time they were being cut on large beam saw in which the 14” moving blade was securely shrouded, but it did require resharpening or sometimes even replacement of carbide tips. Some of those blade sets are well over $500 CDN, so we want them to last.
Then there were issues of delamination of glue bonds and inconsistencies of material thickness - even within the same sheet of material - which mostly only affected tightly machined joinery such as dadoes, etc.
It was not unusual to find debris such as small gravel, and even machine nuts/bolts imbedded inside the laminated layers. Guess how we found them? Thankfully most of the time they were being cut on large beam saw in which the 14” moving blade was securely shrouded, but it did require resharpening or sometimes even replacement of carbide tips. Some of those blade sets are well over $500 CDN, so we want them to last.
Then there were issues of delamination of glue bonds and inconsistencies of material thickness - even within the same sheet of material - which mostly only affected tightly machined joinery such as dadoes, etc.
you’ll find it attached, and here is a link from the source, for more info about it. and digging for more information on diys, i found this example, and this too. though, the finish is different from the one i can source here. it’s much more expensive option from the asian one, it’s about €82 for the 20mm sheet.
