Thanks for that confirmation, Stefan. So we now have the choices of Pluvia 7, A7MS and A7-P. Since I think it’s safe to assume that you’re in a position to know, will the other models share the same fate - i.e. to be superceded by the new low profile frame designs? Frankly I found thosr easier to work with than the earlier thicker frames.
That is until the next gen "x" comes out, which, of course will be significantly better than the previous generation.
I watched the video (Mark discusses the spider-less design) and found his enthusiasm infectious/inspiring. With regard to if it actually sounds better, don't know (yet), but I like Mark's continuing pursuit of designing/refining/perfecting full range drivers and don't mind patronizing his business. I can't think of any other driver designer that does this. To a point, though, as skipping a generation here or there, does not hurt as the new design evolves; will the outer rubber suspension hold up over the long term, before it shrinks or stretches out and the voice coil starts rubbing? Maybe a new/different surround material will be implemented...(etc)....
I watched the video (Mark discusses the spider-less design) and found his enthusiasm infectious/inspiring. With regard to if it actually sounds better, don't know (yet), but I like Mark's continuing pursuit of designing/refining/perfecting full range drivers and don't mind patronizing his business. I can't think of any other driver designer that does this. To a point, though, as skipping a generation here or there, does not hurt as the new design evolves; will the outer rubber suspension hold up over the long term, before it shrinks or stretches out and the voice coil starts rubbing? Maybe a new/different surround material will be implemented...(etc)....
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I think every driver I've used has gone obsolete (FE127, Trio-8, AN Super 15 Ferrite, EL-70) and as I was planning to make use of a pair of A10.3's I have sitting in their boxes here, I can add that one to the list ! - although I suspect the A10p version will live-on for awhile since the paper cone doesn't look like a good candidate for the mono suspension and I believe it sells quite well still?
How else would we have an excuse to keep building speakers without a slew of new drivers
I've also seen a number of transistors go obsolete, or move to SMD. The only thing that has stayed the course have been the ongoing availability of vacuum tubes. Go figure.
How else would we have an excuse to keep building speakers without a slew of new drivers
I've also seen a number of transistors go obsolete, or move to SMD. The only thing that has stayed the course have been the ongoing availability of vacuum tubes. Go figure.
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don't worry about testing them, just plug 'em in !
Well, I'm thinking more that my speaker projects should start incorporating removable baffles to allow for driver changes, a kind of future-proofing. For bass reflex you can get away with quite a bit in terms of flexibility - box volumes can be decreased with additional wooden blocks and port tubes resized for different lengths. Still, I do prefer the non-removable type from an aesthetic perspective and I like a solid glued joint instead of screws etc.
More important, I'm waiting for reports on the 11ms, as I'd like to see some independent listening impressions - I'm not that trusting of MA data sheets as a guide.
Well, I'm thinking more that my speaker projects should start incorporating removable baffles to allow for driver changes, a kind of future-proofing. For bass reflex you can get away with quite a bit in terms of flexibility - box volumes can be decreased with additional wooden blocks and port tubes resized for different lengths. Still, I do prefer the non-removable type from an aesthetic perspective and I like a solid glued joint instead of screws etc.
More important, I'm waiting for reports on the 11ms, as I'd like to see some independent listening impressions - I'm not that trusting of MA data sheets as a guide.
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So all I really know is that the A7 has been discontinued from production so it's just the stock that is out there. As you know it's a good solid driver so I'm sure sales will continue well while stocks last. The Alpair 10 range is staying for the foreseeable future though, everyone loves it and all the dealers like selling it, so no need to stop making it really.
As some of you have pointed out further up there have been some other development drivers out there, P7 P and A5.3 among them. They are still just that, in development. They might see the light of day, they might not. Mark and the team continually develop and test new stuff and this is part of that. At some point if they find something they think they might like, us dealers and people like Scott get some test samples to mess about with and evaluate. That hasn't happened yet so they are still a little way off.
Stefan
As some of you have pointed out further up there have been some other development drivers out there, P7 P and A5.3 among them. They are still just that, in development. They might see the light of day, they might not. Mark and the team continually develop and test new stuff and this is part of that. At some point if they find something they think they might like, us dealers and people like Scott get some test samples to mess about with and evaluate. That hasn't happened yet so they are still a little way off.
Stefan
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I got the same info from a 2nd source. Japan is the payground for trying out new things. Word is that the P7p currently has voicing for Japan. The CHN70 got a lot of flack over here because of that.
The new MS scheme is, i understand, not possible with a paper cone, but the intention is to migrate the line to the new style of basket. It would also be nice to see a rectangular frame for the A5x specifically to allow close C-C in line arrays.
dave
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Whilst some folk like these drivers it’s also true to say they have a lower price, so there is a broader market for them, and they sound lively even if not hi-fi, but popularity isn’t a guarantee, I find that their published FR plots hide the truth somewhat (I’m trying to be nice, but really, a lot of trust was lost and met with defensiveness an I feel folk reading the forum should be forwarned before jumping in with that driver). It helps to get independent opinions which this forum is good at.
Mark Audio CHN-70 - Would you even bother? -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Making the MarkAudio CHN-70s listenable
Markaudio CHN70: What did I hear?
Can we talk about the new drivers. We’d love more information, especially any early listening impressions.
Mark Audio CHN-70 - Would you even bother? -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Making the MarkAudio CHN-70s listenable
Markaudio CHN70: What did I hear?
Can we talk about the new drivers. We’d love more information, especially any early listening impressions.
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To clarify about my a/b comparison.
Alpair 7 in well designed, vertical braced Pensil cabinet in 19mm Valchromat.
Alpair 7ms in new pensil arrangement, cabinet in 18mm birch, with vertical bracing.
Binding posts, cables, crimps, stuffing and dampning was the same. Speaker location, and source material and volume were all the same. The old a7 drivers had thousands of hours on them, and the new ones had maybe 5hrs, but only require 1 due to the lack of rear suspension.
The only differences being driver & cabinet.
I find it really hard to quantify what was heard, but the premise heard by a few people, was there was increased distortion with the 7ms, and its power handling was lower, specifically lower bass (remember the original 7 goes lower than the 10 in the right box).
I should add this driver didn't sound bad, just different, and we found something missing compared to original.
Next I want to throw them both in a sealed box, and give them a fair playground to see if there is a distinct difference.
Any other opinions out there?
Alpair 7 in well designed, vertical braced Pensil cabinet in 19mm Valchromat.
Alpair 7ms in new pensil arrangement, cabinet in 18mm birch, with vertical bracing.
Binding posts, cables, crimps, stuffing and dampning was the same. Speaker location, and source material and volume were all the same. The old a7 drivers had thousands of hours on them, and the new ones had maybe 5hrs, but only require 1 due to the lack of rear suspension.
The only differences being driver & cabinet.
I find it really hard to quantify what was heard, but the premise heard by a few people, was there was increased distortion with the 7ms, and its power handling was lower, specifically lower bass (remember the original 7 goes lower than the 10 in the right box).
I should add this driver didn't sound bad, just different, and we found something missing compared to original.
Next I want to throw them both in a sealed box, and give them a fair playground to see if there is a distinct difference.
Any other opinions out there?
There has been a tendency for the Alpairs to gain sensitivity, loose HF issue, and have less bass capability. Something i don’t mind at all.
Good luck finding Alpair 7, they have been out of production for a long time. Something like 8 years now.
A7ms likely needs more than 5 hrs break-in.
dave
Good luck finding Alpair 7, they have been out of production for a long time. Something like 8 years now.
A7ms likely needs more than 5 hrs break-in.
dave
Thank Dave,
One of my clients managed to get the new driver into our old valchromat box, and the feeling was the same, to their ears the driver simply doesn't sound as good (I believe they have now been run for several days to warm up). This is my same response when I had a pair of our half pluvia/half CH?'s that they just lacked a musicality to them.
I'm pretty angry the demise of the 7 wasn't made public or at least told to the small manufactures of speakers like myself. I have spend a year and a half developing an absolutely amazing speaker for a client that blows almost everything under £5k out of the water, and now we can no longer get the main ingredient. Not to mention all the CNC cabinets I have in stock, which are now redundant and the hundreds of man hours spent agonising over details and new products. Plus all the units we have installed in bars and restaurants which we can no longer service if they break.
Personally I feel the Alpair 7 was one of the best drivers in the world, there was something magical about it (almost electrostatic in speed). And I feel all the other drivers I have heard have felt like compromised by size, speed, power, weight, P7's, 5's, 7ms, 10's.
I'm not giving up on the 7ms, (firstly because they were way more expensive) and will test and see if I can come up with a design that makes this driver sound good.
But if not I think I will have to investigate the likes of TangBand and others who are bringing wide band drivers into the market with ever increasing quality.
One of my clients managed to get the new driver into our old valchromat box, and the feeling was the same, to their ears the driver simply doesn't sound as good (I believe they have now been run for several days to warm up). This is my same response when I had a pair of our half pluvia/half CH?'s that they just lacked a musicality to them.
I'm pretty angry the demise of the 7 wasn't made public or at least told to the small manufactures of speakers like myself. I have spend a year and a half developing an absolutely amazing speaker for a client that blows almost everything under £5k out of the water, and now we can no longer get the main ingredient. Not to mention all the CNC cabinets I have in stock, which are now redundant and the hundreds of man hours spent agonising over details and new products. Plus all the units we have installed in bars and restaurants which we can no longer service if they break.
Personally I feel the Alpair 7 was one of the best drivers in the world, there was something magical about it (almost electrostatic in speed). And I feel all the other drivers I have heard have felt like compromised by size, speed, power, weight, P7's, 5's, 7ms, 10's.
I'm not giving up on the 7ms, (firstly because they were way more expensive) and will test and see if I can come up with a design that makes this driver sound good.
But if not I think I will have to investigate the likes of TangBand and others who are bringing wide band drivers into the market with ever increasing quality.
I don't really understand why you would have a large stock of cabinets and not the drivers. Wasn't it possible to buy directly from Markaudio and make a contract about delivery etc, and also stock drivers?
Hope you find succes with the new MS7, overall the reactions are very positive. Is the pensile desing for the ms7 the same as the regular alpair 7?
Hope you find succes with the new MS7, overall the reactions are very positive. Is the pensile desing for the ms7 the same as the regular alpair 7?