Yes, of course, but I'd rather not resort to ungainly solutions like tilting spikes (sorry, I want a really SAF-friendly build this time, with me being a bit more of a stickler for looks than the S in question
). So, my questions are as follows: is the Pensil 11 good to listen to from a slightly off-axis position in the vertical plane and do the benefits of going for the resonant air coupler over the bass reflex outweigh the drawbacks (cost, slight vertical difference)?
Sorry for bothering you so much!
Yes, of course, but I'd rather not resort to ungainly solutions like tilting spikes (sorry, I want a really SAF-friendly build this time, with me being a bit more of a stickler for looks than the S in question
Fair enough; I can't say I find it ungainly myself, assuming it was designed with that in mind, but to aesthetics is a personal thing, and I'm not known for my artistic taste. Audio Solutions do this with some of their speakers, e.g. the attached, which is a bit more than I like, but could be worse.
I'm afraid I don't know. Since it's entirely subjective and what I hear is very unlikely to be what anyone else does (on top of the fact that I don't have personal experience with your system and room acoustics) the only person who can make that decision is yourself. The pensil will go a little lower in practice & has a flatter impedance curve / control over the driver so is more flexible with a range of different amplifiers. The acoustic alignments are rather different too, the former having more gain through the midbass but may require a little more space as a result. In general I personally prefer the larger enclosures, but that is a reflection of my opionions and priorities.
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MS 11
Hi, i'm new here. I'm playing with the 11ms I orderd from Stefan. Stefan is now building the nostromo large speakers for me.
At the moment the 11ms are playing in some vintage speaker cases, with a new baffle. Having some 44 Liters, tuned to some 60hz, gave me a very good impression. I'm going for the nostromo, because it gives me more possibility's. They will have a detachable back. So, I can play ported, and can even try out a passive radiator. (which hasn't been done yet). Other option is replacing the back with with a sealed back plate, making it possible and quite eas to add a subwoofer. The low cut-off will then be accoustic. I like the 11ms very mutch, my first full range driver. I will post some messages when I get the Nostromo cases from Stefan. They will be build from black Valchromat. Very hard material, harder then basic MDF, more like HDF.
Hi, i'm new here. I'm playing with the 11ms I orderd from Stefan. Stefan is now building the nostromo large speakers for me.
At the moment the 11ms are playing in some vintage speaker cases, with a new baffle. Having some 44 Liters, tuned to some 60hz, gave me a very good impression. I'm going for the nostromo, because it gives me more possibility's. They will have a detachable back. So, I can play ported, and can even try out a passive radiator. (which hasn't been done yet). Other option is replacing the back with with a sealed back plate, making it possible and quite eas to add a subwoofer. The low cut-off will then be accoustic. I like the 11ms very mutch, my first full range driver. I will post some messages when I get the Nostromo cases from Stefan. They will be build from black Valchromat. Very hard material, harder then basic MDF, more like HDF.
Welcome! Valchromat is a decent material and Stefan does great work; will look forward to seeing some pictures when they're done.
I haven't done a passive radiator version because their main use from my POV is as a vent substitute for acoustically small enclosures, either where the duct length would either be excessive (and thus have problems with self-harmonics) or of too small a cross section (and thus have problems with excess velocity). Plus there's the question of finding one that is conveniently available in most international regions. Never say never though; I've a couple of multiway designs on the drawing board using PBRs including one for MA drivers. It should be quite easy to blend a subwoofer in with the speaker as I designed it; it may be advantageous in some ways over sealing them up, which would make for a rather low box Q, as the sub would not have to be run up as high in frequency, increasing the potential for issues with directionality. YMMV though.
I haven't done a passive radiator version because their main use from my POV is as a vent substitute for acoustically small enclosures, either where the duct length would either be excessive (and thus have problems with self-harmonics) or of too small a cross section (and thus have problems with excess velocity). Plus there's the question of finding one that is conveniently available in most international regions. Never say never though; I've a couple of multiway designs on the drawing board using PBRs including one for MA drivers. It should be quite easy to blend a subwoofer in with the speaker as I designed it; it may be advantageous in some ways over sealing them up, which would make for a rather low box Q, as the sub would not have to be run up as high in frequency, increasing the potential for issues with directionality. YMMV though.
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Hi Scott,
Will do, thanx for your designs and tip!
I have heard some speakers with a passive radiator, that sounded really good. If done correctly, they can make a speaker sound "bigger". Doens't mean going lower, but just gives you the impression. Actually a passive radiator rolls of a little bit steeper then a ported desing. Also with drums, it can sound more "dry". (different
I was looking at the SEAS SP18R, which is widely availible and easy to adjust, by adding/removing weight.
If heard the "Nebular" from speaker designer Tony Gee (Humble home made hifi). Really nice bass extention. Very tight and the PR's kicked in, when they needed to. Midrange gave the impression of a sealed speaker.
These speakers sounded reallly big.
I won't say PR is better then ported, but its just differtent. Some like cheese, other prefer pie at the end of a dinner
Will do, thanx for your designs and tip!
I have heard some speakers with a passive radiator, that sounded really good. If done correctly, they can make a speaker sound "bigger". Doens't mean going lower, but just gives you the impression. Actually a passive radiator rolls of a little bit steeper then a ported desing. Also with drums, it can sound more "dry". (different
I was looking at the SEAS SP18R, which is widely availible and easy to adjust, by adding/removing weight.
If heard the "Nebular" from speaker designer Tony Gee (Humble home made hifi). Really nice bass extention. Very tight and the PR's kicked in, when they needed to. Midrange gave the impression of a sealed speaker.
These speakers sounded reallly big.
I won't say PR is better then ported, but its just differtent. Some like cheese, other prefer pie at the end of a dinner
Indeed, speakers using passive radiators can be very good. I never suggested otherwise. What I did say was that I didn't design Nostromo that way, and that direct comparisons between a vented box and one using a PBR with an identical alignment are generally difficult since most PBRs are used as a vent substitute when the latter would either be impractical or sub-optimal. By definition, in those conditions if applied properly they will be superior, but in my experience they do not necessarily have significant advantages (or even sound any different in practice) when taken out of that environment. Interesting, and perfectly valid, but no more from my POV.
Thanx Scott! I'm going to try out the ported first. There is a really good change I won't even give the PR a change, if it sounds good as is... why would I At the moment.... bass is really sufficient.
Reason I chose a fullrange driver, is that I also use my Stereo for Tv/movies.... and yes even gaming(FPS mostly). Dialogs are a real pleasure with the 11ms. And for gaming and music, I am utterly amased at how good they sound. I play at reasonable sound levels.
Perhaps in the future I'll try to make a Fast design with the alpair 11ms or just add a sub.
@Scott, if I would go for a sub, sealing the enclosure is not the way to go I understand. What would you advise to change. (Releaving the 11ms from some bass duties so it can shine elsewhere, would be my goal)
At the moment.... bass is really sufficient. Reason I chose a fullrange driver, is that I also use my Stereo for Tv/movies.... and yes even gaming(FPS mostly). Dialogs are a real pleasure with the 11ms. And for gaming and music, I am utterly amased at how good they sound. I play at reasonable sound levels.
Perhaps in the future I'll try to make a Fast design with the alpair 11ms or just add a sub.
@Scott, if I would go for a sub, sealing the enclosure is not the way to go I understand. What would you advise to change. (Releaving the 11ms from some bass duties so it can shine elsewhere, would be my goal)
In Scott’s lexicon, i think he’d be referring to high aspect ratio (tall & skinny) vented alignments stuffed with sufficient damping to move away from simple bass reflex action, and to include varying degrees of quarter wave tuning by manipulatiing CSA, line length and driver placement from sealed end. Or something like that
Damn, Scott beat me to it, and only because I was attempting some creative wordsmithing.
Damn, Scott beat me to it, and only because I was attempting some creative wordsmithing.
Others will no doubt offer thoughts; depends to a point what sub & how many; stereo subs give more options so if you go down that route are favourite if the space & funds are available. Electronic / digital crossover is easiest & most flexible.
Exactly there too. Basically a high gain vented QW alignment which uses TL quantities of damping for easy adjustment of the output and to provide an impedance load approaching more regular TL style boxes.
Should we rename you you Tolstoy?
Choices, choices... choices:🤔
At this moment I have broad speaker cases, the ms11's are fit off centre. Next up will be the nostromo, that will give a good idea of the possibility's and sound influences if the different case/boxe styles.
Lets taste the cheese and pie first in order to know what to preferr
I'll post a picture later of the current set up.
At this moment I have broad speaker cases, the ms11's are fit off centre. Next up will be the nostromo, that will give a good idea of the possibility's and sound influences if the different case/boxe styles.
Lets taste the cheese and pie first in order to know what to preferr
I'll post a picture later of the current set up.
I too will be using my A11’s for Music as well as TV/Movies with stereo subs, I have roughed up 5.5litre sealed cabinets & they are currently being used by a friend of mine who is temporarily without speakers, I am getting good feedback from him.
These are the current "test boxes" bought them dirt cheap. Vintage 1971 cases. Soft wood, 9mm mdf en 9mm woodchip. Baffle is valchro. Nice way to warm up the drivers. Sounds already amazing, can't wait to hear the nostromo's.
Are there some pictures of the 5,5 liter sealed caps?
Question, enybody, for the new cases i'm lookimg at speaker terminals. Don't like what I see. Big chunks of metal, some look good, but have a big metal nut... and the good ones are really expensive. And I dont want to pay alot for a bottle neck. So I want to solder speaker cables directly to the driver and connect them to the amp(peachtree nova 220se) without any connectors In between. (Like in the old days, the cable came attached to the speaker). Im looking at neotech soct 16 x2 per speaker. (Plus and minus) who can advise me?
Scott is this also in your ballparc?
Are there some pictures of the 5,5 liter sealed caps?
Question, enybody, for the new cases i'm lookimg at speaker terminals. Don't like what I see. Big chunks of metal, some look good, but have a big metal nut... and the good ones are really expensive. And I dont want to pay alot for a bottle neck. So I want to solder speaker cables directly to the driver and connect them to the amp(peachtree nova 220se) without any connectors In between. (Like in the old days, the cable came attached to the speaker). Im looking at neotech soct 16 x2 per speaker. (Plus and minus) who can advise me?
Scott is this also in your ballparc?
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While the appeal of avoiding the additional mechanical /electrical connections of speaker terminals, I’d personally still use them for convenience, and until someone publishes results of a double blind ABX test isolating that factor alone, I’d be inclined to think that you couldn’t possibly hear the difference.
What happens if you decide to move either of the speakers -or amp- and the hardwired cables are now too short?
There are a variety of very inexpensive recessed plastic terminal cups using plastic nutted 5-way binding posts - most at 3/4” spacing to allow use of something like the Pomona dual banana plugs, or certainly singles. A lot of folks are very much liking the Speakon connectors, but they do require more a bit more clearance behind.
What happens if you decide to move either of the speakers -or amp- and the hardwired cables are now too short?
There are a variety of very inexpensive recessed plastic terminal cups using plastic nutted 5-way binding posts - most at 3/4” spacing to allow use of something like the Pomona dual banana plugs, or certainly singles. A lot of folks are very much liking the Speakon connectors, but they do require more a bit more clearance behind.