Has anyone found a good, cheap source for the Xenarcs? I’m thinking of trying to DIY an LCD projector using a 700Y or YV and possibly later on, building a car PC using a TS or TSV.
Best prices I’ve found so far are as follows: $240 for a 700V, $409 for a 700Y, $449 for a 700YV, $499 for a 700TS and $539 for a 700TSV. All but the 700V (SpySupply007.com) are from OneHitWonders.com and include shipping. Let me know if your sources are cheaper.
I'd like to hook up a PC to the projector, but I'm not sure the native VGA connector outweighs the $169 differential in price. And if I want both video and VGA, it's a $209 -- almost the price of another panel! Sure it'll look better for native 800x480 PC output, but if I forgo that function for now, I can save some money.
Did anyone know that this particular LCD format has been used years before? Not sure what other application it was given, but this same exact size and resolution LCD was used in the old Toshiba Libretto 100/110 palmtop PC's. They were "new" back in '98 or thereabouts if I remember correctly. Tiny clamshell notebook with a miniscule keyboard and a whopping docking station at least the same size as the Libretto, if not bigger. The displays were made by Sharp and Samsung at the time, though with Xenarc's price points, I doubt Sharp still manufactures them...
Best prices I’ve found so far are as follows: $240 for a 700V, $409 for a 700Y, $449 for a 700YV, $499 for a 700TS and $539 for a 700TSV. All but the 700V (SpySupply007.com) are from OneHitWonders.com and include shipping. Let me know if your sources are cheaper.
I'd like to hook up a PC to the projector, but I'm not sure the native VGA connector outweighs the $169 differential in price. And if I want both video and VGA, it's a $209 -- almost the price of another panel! Sure it'll look better for native 800x480 PC output, but if I forgo that function for now, I can save some money.
Did anyone know that this particular LCD format has been used years before? Not sure what other application it was given, but this same exact size and resolution LCD was used in the old Toshiba Libretto 100/110 palmtop PC's. They were "new" back in '98 or thereabouts if I remember correctly. Tiny clamshell notebook with a miniscule keyboard and a whopping docking station at least the same size as the Libretto, if not bigger. The displays were made by Sharp and Samsung at the time, though with Xenarc's price points, I doubt Sharp still manufactures them...
question
ok here is a question to u guys who are playing with small lcd's im using a 6" ill post ya some pics when i get some more done on it but anyway whats the best distance to have a frensel from the lcd? and also if the frensel is warped(say in the center) will that make the image focused in the middle of the pic and unfocused on the out skirts of the pic?
Thanks Trev
ok here is a question to u guys who are playing with small lcd's im using a 6" ill post ya some pics when i get some more done on it but anyway whats the best distance to have a frensel from the lcd? and also if the frensel is warped(say in the center) will that make the image focused in the middle of the pic and unfocused on the out skirts of the pic?
Thanks Trev
fresnel focal lengths
Ace:
Depends on the frezzi's focal length. For example:
My Elmo uses a dual frezzi bonded together. The bottom one has a FL of 9.5", but the top one is 12.5"
Ace:
Depends on the frezzi's focal length. For example:
My Elmo uses a dual frezzi bonded together. The bottom one has a FL of 9.5", but the top one is 12.5"
Proto5
Heya proto5 thanks for the reply, the frensel im using is just a page magnifier because im using a small screen and its the only i could find in this country, the focal i can remember is about 20cm - 25cm and unfortunatley it is warped because of heat while i was testing, the middle has go towards the lcd and the outer has stayed in the same spot. Now i can fix this by mounting it on a flat piece of glass but im just curious to know if its the frensel or the lens im using (90mm magnifying glass)
Thanks Trev
Heya proto5 thanks for the reply, the frensel im using is just a page magnifier because im using a small screen and its the only i could find in this country, the focal i can remember is about 20cm - 25cm and unfortunatley it is warped because of heat while i was testing, the middle has go towards the lcd and the outer has stayed in the same spot. Now i can fix this by mounting it on a flat piece of glass but im just curious to know if its the frensel or the lens im using (90mm magnifying glass)
Thanks Trev
proto5
doesnt matter proto5 ive worked it out, ive fixed the frensel and now thats great, i wedged it between 2 pieces of perspex ill have to get some glass as its less light loss not that im loosing much anyway, ok so that leaves me with the lens, the pic is good but just on the edges its out of focus abit that meaning it the lens. That means my humble mag glass lens isnt meant for flat objects lol so ill have to have a hunt around for a projection lens. Another question if u know it or if others know it, ive been reading around in the forums in the past and some people say that perspex stops uv, is this true?
Trev
doesnt matter proto5 ive worked it out, ive fixed the frensel and now thats great, i wedged it between 2 pieces of perspex ill have to get some glass as its less light loss not that im loosing much anyway, ok so that leaves me with the lens, the pic is good but just on the edges its out of focus abit that meaning it the lens. That means my humble mag glass lens isnt meant for flat objects lol so ill have to have a hunt around for a projection lens. Another question if u know it or if others know it, ive been reading around in the forums in the past and some people say that perspex stops uv, is this true?
Trev
Cheap LCD screen
Here is a cheap small lcd screen for those who want it small lol
http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=8130
Trev
Here is a cheap small lcd screen for those who want it small lol
http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=8130
Trev
Thats a real great find! I'm tempted to buy one to use in a case mod or somthing. I think these people are going for higher end 7" widescreen panels that have high resolution ( made to be omputer monitors).
verbose
yeah its realy cheap verbose, shame the reso isnt 1280x1024 for that price lol, as for the screens in the 7inch i had a look at the screen they aree looking at in here and yeah they are great but i still dont like the price, sharp are coming out with a few new models too ill have to ask them the prices
Trev
yeah its realy cheap verbose, shame the reso isnt 1280x1024 for that price lol, as for the screens in the 7inch i had a look at the screen they aree looking at in here and yeah they are great but i still dont like the price, sharp are coming out with a few new models too ill have to ask them the prices
Trev
found this!
cheak out this site for modding a small lcd tv to take rgb
http://home1.gte.net/bs/sharp2.html
Trev
cheak out this site for modding a small lcd tv to take rgb
http://home1.gte.net/bs/sharp2.html
Trev
Hi guys,
Great pictures Proto5. That looks great. I would be happy with that. I probably looks better as a moving picture that a still.
I think that I have been persuing some wrong directions with the above design but because I have been taking a computer 3D modeling class it is easier to design somthing on the computer than to actually build it yourself with common household tools.
I have not found a really cheap source for the Xenarc 7" LCD but it appears to be a very good quality LCD. Of course it is limited to the physical resolution of 480 vertical lines.
I am working on a redesign for my projector that will be less expensive and mostly easier to build.
It will use a triplet lens from DIY labs and a high quality fresnel after the LCD panel (not before) so I won't have to build a large lens.
It will not rely on exact placemnt of the light source as is it will use a long folded columnator.
The light recycling will be optional for thouse who can fabricate the lenses.
It will use 15" high resolution LCD since that is the most economical size from a price point of view to get.
Great pictures Proto5. That looks great. I would be happy with that. I probably looks better as a moving picture that a still.
I think that I have been persuing some wrong directions with the above design but because I have been taking a computer 3D modeling class it is easier to design somthing on the computer than to actually build it yourself with common household tools.
I have not found a really cheap source for the Xenarc 7" LCD but it appears to be a very good quality LCD. Of course it is limited to the physical resolution of 480 vertical lines.
I am working on a redesign for my projector that will be less expensive and mostly easier to build.
It will use a triplet lens from DIY labs and a high quality fresnel after the LCD panel (not before) so I won't have to build a large lens.
It will not rely on exact placemnt of the light source as is it will use a long folded columnator.
The light recycling will be optional for thouse who can fabricate the lenses.
It will use 15" high resolution LCD since that is the most economical size from a price point of view to get.
Hezz,
What do you consider "less expensive"? For the money, $240 isn't all that bad considering the size and resolution of the panel -- granted that is the video-only model, but if all you're worried about is projecting you DVD player, it may be just fine. Unfortunately, in my case, I think I'd want to push the limits on the display and get a VGA input with 9A62 for component-in.
Of course, a very suitable used or new XGA LCD monitor can still be obtained for a good deal less $$$, but they are generally 14"-15" -- way too large if you're trying to make a smaller format projector. The 10"-12" XGAs are just near-impossible to find.
Probably still too expensive at this point, but there are quite a few WXGA equipped ultra-compact notebooks out there. Specs are generally a 10" or 10.5" active TFT with 1280x768 -- great for data and widescreen projection, but still too new for a reasonable parts price.
What do you consider "less expensive"? For the money, $240 isn't all that bad considering the size and resolution of the panel -- granted that is the video-only model, but if all you're worried about is projecting you DVD player, it may be just fine. Unfortunately, in my case, I think I'd want to push the limits on the display and get a VGA input with 9A62 for component-in.
Of course, a very suitable used or new XGA LCD monitor can still be obtained for a good deal less $$$, but they are generally 14"-15" -- way too large if you're trying to make a smaller format projector. The 10"-12" XGAs are just near-impossible to find.
Probably still too expensive at this point, but there are quite a few WXGA equipped ultra-compact notebooks out there. Specs are generally a 10" or 10.5" active TFT with 1280x768 -- great for data and widescreen projection, but still too new for a reasonable parts price.
reply
Karroc,
I think the Xenarc is the best way to go if you must have a smaller size LCD panel. I was bound and determined to take that approach for a long time because I didn't want any pixel resolution loss when I played back wide screen DVD's. I have since come to the conclusion that the best way to go is to drive a LCD panel with a home theater PC and scale the wide screen to the native resolution of the LCD panel. Then I will use an anamorphic lens to squish the aspect ration optically. This will actually improve the resolution even more. If your only option is to use your DVD player, I would think that the 7" Xenarc would be as good as any small wide screen LCD panel. The only other ones that I have seen are of lower quality than the Xenarc. One thing you should look into though is that I believe the NTSC version has lower native resolution than the more expensive VGA version.
If you can afford it I would opt for the VGA compatible model especially if it can do NTSC. When you blow the LCD size up with the projector it will look much better becasue it is nearly twice as much vertical resolution.
Hezz
P.S.
Here are some early pictures of the big momma projector. It will have no complicated parts except for the cabinet which will be easy to construct for the average DIYer.
It will have polarized light recycling that does not require a custom made lens. Only inexpensive flat glass beam splitter and mirror is required.
It will use inexpensive triplet objective lens from DIY labs and a high grade single fresnel between the LCD and the objective.
It will use brightness enhancement films from 3M and a reflective polarizer close to the LCD. It will also have heat barrier.
Hezz
Karroc,
I think the Xenarc is the best way to go if you must have a smaller size LCD panel. I was bound and determined to take that approach for a long time because I didn't want any pixel resolution loss when I played back wide screen DVD's. I have since come to the conclusion that the best way to go is to drive a LCD panel with a home theater PC and scale the wide screen to the native resolution of the LCD panel. Then I will use an anamorphic lens to squish the aspect ration optically. This will actually improve the resolution even more. If your only option is to use your DVD player, I would think that the 7" Xenarc would be as good as any small wide screen LCD panel. The only other ones that I have seen are of lower quality than the Xenarc. One thing you should look into though is that I believe the NTSC version has lower native resolution than the more expensive VGA version.
If you can afford it I would opt for the VGA compatible model especially if it can do NTSC. When you blow the LCD size up with the projector it will look much better becasue it is nearly twice as much vertical resolution.
Hezz
P.S.
Here are some early pictures of the big momma projector. It will have no complicated parts except for the cabinet which will be easy to construct for the average DIYer.
It will have polarized light recycling that does not require a custom made lens. Only inexpensive flat glass beam splitter and mirror is required.
It will use inexpensive triplet objective lens from DIY labs and a high grade single fresnel between the LCD and the objective.
It will use brightness enhancement films from 3M and a reflective polarizer close to the LCD. It will also have heat barrier.
Hezz
Hezz -- I've been following your proposal from the first message to last and think you've got a very sound idea of how to assemble your projector. Would a line doubler work better than an anamorphic lens? Just curious. My Panasonic DVD player has a Faroudja-based chip in it and incorporates a form of line doubling when using progressive component-out. Also, if the DVD source is widescreen anamorphic, you shouldn't need the special lens?
As far as I can tell from the manufacturer's website, all the the Xenarc 700's have the same LCD panel with a native resolution of 800x480. Every spec reads the same regardless of source input type. Probably the biggest variance is with introduction of the touchscreen, which would have no use in a projector anyway.
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700v.html
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700y.html
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700yv.html
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700ts.html
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700tsv.html
I'll grant you that the VGA-in will produce the best quality, not something that I had a contention with anyway. I just thought that for immediate cost, the cheaper module can be put in place until the VGA-in models become more affordable.
Something slightly larger and more expensive (though I haven't found them in anything but ultra-compact notebooks) is 10" widescreen WXGA displays pushing 1280x768. I have a notebook that has one of these, and it's beautiful, but I'm reluctant to disassemble a perfectly working $1600 PC to prototype a DIY projector.
As far as I can tell from the manufacturer's website, all the the Xenarc 700's have the same LCD panel with a native resolution of 800x480. Every spec reads the same regardless of source input type. Probably the biggest variance is with introduction of the touchscreen, which would have no use in a projector anyway.
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700v.html
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700y.html
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700yv.html
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700ts.html
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700tsv.html
I'll grant you that the VGA-in will produce the best quality, not something that I had a contention with anyway. I just thought that for immediate cost, the cheaper module can be put in place until the VGA-in models become more affordable.
Something slightly larger and more expensive (though I haven't found them in anything but ultra-compact notebooks) is 10" widescreen WXGA displays pushing 1280x768. I have a notebook that has one of these, and it's beautiful, but I'm reluctant to disassemble a perfectly working $1600 PC to prototype a DIY projector.
LCD controllers
Have you guys come to any agreement on what controller to use on the Zenarc panels?
I picked up a nice Sharp LQ10DX01 panel and am looking at the EarthLCD controllers.....there must be something cheaper out there.....but even if I pay $250 for the controller I'll still be able to build a smaller footprint projector.
Ideas?
Have you guys come to any agreement on what controller to use on the Zenarc panels?
I picked up a nice Sharp LQ10DX01 panel and am looking at the EarthLCD controllers.....there must be something cheaper out there.....but even if I pay $250 for the controller I'll still be able to build a smaller footprint projector.
Ideas?
Proto5 --
There is no need for a separate LCD controller -- the Xenarc LCD's are complete standalone monitors, not just bare panels. Depending on which model you choose, the Xenarcs have video-in, VGA-in or both. Cost scales from $240 to $449, excluding the touchscreen models. Best pricing I've found was the 700V at SpySupply007.com and the rest at OneHitWonders.com.
There is no need for a separate LCD controller -- the Xenarc LCD's are complete standalone monitors, not just bare panels. Depending on which model you choose, the Xenarcs have video-in, VGA-in or both. Cost scales from $240 to $449, excluding the touchscreen models. Best pricing I've found was the 700V at SpySupply007.com and the rest at OneHitWonders.com.
Proto5,
You don't need a controller for these units unless you somehow find the raw LCD panels somewhere. The NTSC version can take a composite input directly and the VGA version can take a RGB computer analog input. The controllers are already built in you just have to leave all of the electronics intact.
By the way how did you take that picture of your set up. It looks incredible. Was it a timed exposure or was the movie running when you took the shot.
I have noticed that if a picture looks good in a still shot it will be even better when moving. Somehow your eye doesn't get all the fine detail as easy in a moving picture.
I think the mechanical design of my first projector was good but the optics were not quite right. I had originally decided to use my Fujinon 4.5 inch lens but it is made for an image about 1" away.
I don't yet have the skill or knowledge to make the total lens system work and from what I have read the fresnel approach can work very well indeed if it is handled correctly.
The only real drawback to this new design is that it is so large, but I intend to have it mounted on a tripod that can be taken down easily when not in use.
After reading more thoroughly the other forums I am convinced that a properly placed fresnel is the best compromise. I am not following exact OHP design here.
The light is designed to enter the LCD at near perpendicular angle to the LCD which is the best angle for light tranmission through the LCD. Hence the long columator for the light.
I have a light polarizing recycler design idea that could be implimented very inexpensively with this projector.
I will post more as time goes on.
Hezz
You don't need a controller for these units unless you somehow find the raw LCD panels somewhere. The NTSC version can take a composite input directly and the VGA version can take a RGB computer analog input. The controllers are already built in you just have to leave all of the electronics intact.
By the way how did you take that picture of your set up. It looks incredible. Was it a timed exposure or was the movie running when you took the shot.
I have noticed that if a picture looks good in a still shot it will be even better when moving. Somehow your eye doesn't get all the fine detail as easy in a moving picture.
I think the mechanical design of my first projector was good but the optics were not quite right. I had originally decided to use my Fujinon 4.5 inch lens but it is made for an image about 1" away.
I don't yet have the skill or knowledge to make the total lens system work and from what I have read the fresnel approach can work very well indeed if it is handled correctly.
The only real drawback to this new design is that it is so large, but I intend to have it mounted on a tripod that can be taken down easily when not in use.
After reading more thoroughly the other forums I am convinced that a properly placed fresnel is the best compromise. I am not following exact OHP design here.
The light is designed to enter the LCD at near perpendicular angle to the LCD which is the best angle for light tranmission through the LCD. Hence the long columator for the light.
I have a light polarizing recycler design idea that could be implimented very inexpensively with this projector.
I will post more as time goes on.
Hezz
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