To be a valid measure of the mid-hi frequency the mic needs to be in the farfield (ref d'Apollito, Toole), farfield is a function of the shortest wavelength of interest. Otherwise the distance between various parts/drivers in the speaker are not at a realistic "attitude" to the measuring/listening position. Nearfield measurements for the bass (mm from the cone) are valid as long as interpreted correctly.
dave
Creekkumar, and new info, listening impressions etc? Did you get them installed in temporary baffles for a listen yet?
Dave, I say BAH!
Maybe in almost ideal conditions you get really good information from a farfield measurement. I never ever have...
Maybe you can or do...
I understand the concerns about the distance between the parts of the driver and arrival time, etc etc etc... in the meantime a close in measurement shows a lot about what the basic driver is doing on its own, without the effects of the box (or room).
Do both, it's easy enough - no single measurement I have ever made of a speaker tells the whole story anyhow.
_-_-bear
Maybe in almost ideal conditions you get really good information from a farfield measurement. I never ever have...
Maybe you can or do...
I understand the concerns about the distance between the parts of the driver and arrival time, etc etc etc... in the meantime a close in measurement shows a lot about what the basic driver is doing on its own, without the effects of the box (or room).
Do both, it's easy enough - no single measurement I have ever made of a speaker tells the whole story anyhow.
_-_-bear
What the F is this?
Decware FRX Full Range Driver
Look at the frequency response. Now its different. Very disappointed with Steve.
http://www.decware.com/newsite/FRXmanual.pdf
Only seven watt max can be used? you must be kidding.......
This is ffff frustrating...
creek
Decware FRX Full Range Driver
Look at the frequency response. Now its different. Very disappointed with Steve.
http://www.decware.com/newsite/FRXmanual.pdf
Only seven watt max can be used? you must be kidding.......
This is ffff frustrating...
creek
Now THAT frequency response chart looks just a LITTLE bit different. 😡😱 Still rated at 95dB 1w/1m The freq chart shows around 90 dB so I'm assuming it is not running at one watt?
Then again, Decaware +/-2 dB from 30 Hz to 22 KHz and 95 dB 1w/1m might belong in the same fairy dust crack pipe of marketing.
Decware response:
Designer’s Note:
When the FRX driver was originally released I published the following frequency response:
I said I’d never seen anything this good and commented that it seemed too good to be true...This
response turned out to be a glitch in the measurement software. After sending the driver to an
independent lab I noticed that I had a very similar response to theirs at the 1ms mark on the waterfall
It then became obvious that there was a 1ms delay in the measurement software causing it to read the
response just before the stimulus signal. Even though I thought it was awfully good response, I also
knew the measurement system was working because of the waterfall plots and a myriad of other
reasons. And what I was hearing was unusually smooth which helped to confirm it. So I guess the joke
was on me.
But keeping it all in perspective, a speaker has many frequency responses. The response depends on
where the microphone is placed. The response it measures at 1 foot or 1 meter is certain to be what you
DON’T hear unless you listen at that distance. At an average of 12 feet away from the speakers it has
taken about 13.2 milliseconds for the sound to travel from the speaker to your ears. As it travels through
the room it is modified by the room and the natural dispersion patterns of the speaker. If you look below,
13.2 milliseconds is just where the color starts to turn yellow, which short of a little peak at 10K is fairly
smooth. This is what you actually hear.
So adjusting the software for the 1ms delay I was able to publish what I’m sure is a far more accurate
response and it is very similar to the independent lab’s IEC baffle measurements. Sorry for any trouble
this has caused, it wasn’t intentional and I was able to delay production until this got resolved.
Steve Deckert
Decware
Designer’s Note:
When the FRX driver was originally released I published the following frequency response:
I said I’d never seen anything this good and commented that it seemed too good to be true...This
response turned out to be a glitch in the measurement software. After sending the driver to an
independent lab I noticed that I had a very similar response to theirs at the 1ms mark on the waterfall
It then became obvious that there was a 1ms delay in the measurement software causing it to read the
response just before the stimulus signal. Even though I thought it was awfully good response, I also
knew the measurement system was working because of the waterfall plots and a myriad of other
reasons. And what I was hearing was unusually smooth which helped to confirm it. So I guess the joke
was on me.
But keeping it all in perspective, a speaker has many frequency responses. The response depends on
where the microphone is placed. The response it measures at 1 foot or 1 meter is certain to be what you
DON’T hear unless you listen at that distance. At an average of 12 feet away from the speakers it has
taken about 13.2 milliseconds for the sound to travel from the speaker to your ears. As it travels through
the room it is modified by the room and the natural dispersion patterns of the speaker. If you look below,
13.2 milliseconds is just where the color starts to turn yellow, which short of a little peak at 10K is fairly
smooth. This is what you actually hear.
So adjusting the software for the 1ms delay I was able to publish what I’m sure is a far more accurate
response and it is very similar to the independent lab’s IEC baffle measurements. Sorry for any trouble
this has caused, it wasn’t intentional and I was able to delay production until this got resolved.
Steve Deckert
Decware
I'm now wondering what use would that speaker fulfill? 90dB at one watt and 7 watts of power handling does not go together well for any sort of volume. I guess it would be OK for SET tube amps at low volumes in a smaller room but I can think of many speakers out there for the $600 price point that have better efficiency, better power handling and better frequency response.
The 30 to 22 KHz +/- 2dB at 95dB 1w/1m dream vanishes...
I was always suspicious about the flatness of his curve in high frequencies...even some dedicated tweeters look worse, that's all, somehow I knew there was something wrong with his data.
The 7w limit is likely coming from the transformer coupled filter. The difference between a set of stock drivers (+ optional extra surrounds) and the FRX would go a long way towards a digital EQ.
dave
dave
...or the 7w limit is due to say 6-9dB of EQ??
Anyhow, kinda disappointing. 🙁
Was hoping for a miracle "cure"... but we do not have one.
It's not bad, but not as good as first advertised.
Otoh, I have seen a system here or there, actually only one, that measures like the first graph... very rare.
As I mentioned in the thread on the raw driver, I bought a pair and tried them stock into a very very large tractrix horn... intersting so far, but not a magic stroke of perfection by any stretch of the imagination... definitely fun though...
_-_-bear
Anyhow, kinda disappointing. 🙁
Was hoping for a miracle "cure"... but we do not have one.
It's not bad, but not as good as first advertised.
Otoh, I have seen a system here or there, actually only one, that measures like the first graph... very rare.
As I mentioned in the thread on the raw driver, I bought a pair and tried them stock into a very very large tractrix horn... intersting so far, but not a magic stroke of perfection by any stretch of the imagination... definitely fun though...
_-_-bear
Yeah this whole thing, and just before that the DAC 😕, kind of has me bummed out too...
I guess I should just speak to what I know, my amp sounds, works, and functions well, so that is that😎
And when I shop for a potential new dac in the near future, and my first one at that!, it will most likely be the next offering from Gigawork, just because😉
I guess I should just speak to what I know, my amp sounds, works, and functions well, so that is that😎
And when I shop for a potential new dac in the near future, and my first one at that!, it will most likely be the next offering from Gigawork, just because😉
Creek,
You going to send the speakers back? The original specs VS the latest specs are a drastic change so--is that "oops" covered under warranty? You'd figure a guy that makes speakers would get outside verification BEFORE he went into production, at least before he started to take people's money.
They usually call that "oops" bait-and-switch fraud where I come from. All depends if you like the sound or not--I'd be making a phone call if it was me.
You going to send the speakers back? The original specs VS the latest specs are a drastic change so--is that "oops" covered under warranty? You'd figure a guy that makes speakers would get outside verification BEFORE he went into production, at least before he started to take people's money.
They usually call that "oops" bait-and-switch fraud where I come from. All depends if you like the sound or not--I'd be making a phone call if it was me.
It's no Problem to achieve ruler flat curve- sounds ridiculous, but it's possible, one Guy here in Serbia has a Patent, but it's the Question does it sounds good...
Visaton B200
original
DD modified
I didn't hear those modified drivers yet, and it's all under a veil of mistery, and those threads always end in fight lol 😀 All I know is that he change the voice coil in some original way, and the impedance is then 1 or 2 Ohms, but as I said I have no knowledge about those uberdrivers that are made by Dragic Dragicevic (DD)
maybe Zen Masters could tell more 😀
Visaton B200
original
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
DD modified
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I didn't hear those modified drivers yet, and it's all under a veil of mistery, and those threads always end in fight lol 😀 All I know is that he change the voice coil in some original way, and the impedance is then 1 or 2 Ohms, but as I said I have no knowledge about those uberdrivers that are made by Dragic Dragicevic (DD)
maybe Zen Masters could tell more 😀
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