@Fast Eddy> Granted iPod is a great marketing success. There're just so many suckers out there. I for one have never been impressed by Apple's products, never bought one but did use McIntosh for editing in parallel with PC for engineering, at work.
One thing I do learn is you can't stop progress. Eventually gadgets will get better, insanely better, and majority of people go for cheaper products for a given quality. Thus Samsung may be the next iPod-type winner. Maybe some of us should design a high-end decking center for Samsung MP3.
One thing I do learn is you can't stop progress. Eventually gadgets will get better, insanely better, and majority of people go for cheaper products for a given quality. Thus Samsung may be the next iPod-type winner. Maybe some of us should design a high-end decking center for Samsung MP3.
classd4sure said:
Samsung seems to have understood one critical element of iPod's success: software. Lots of usability issues with early-day portables are software related. iTunes addressed that, eluoquently and effectively.
The hardware performance really is a non-issue: just look at how much iPod sucks as a music player vs. its popularity.
They are also smart in lunching this first outside of the US.
On the other hand, I am not convinced that it is a plus to have those crappy speakers built into the player: Samsung should observe how people use those types of devices.
classd4sure said:
my experience and my anecdot observation seem to suggest otherwise. I was an avid CD buyer until about 10 years ago. I used to buy one or two CDs a week, and I buy about 1 or two CDs a year now. and that is true among co-workers and supported by the demise of record stores as well.
The problem with CDs, and why Apple's pricing is quite effective, is that you usually buy a CD for a song or two on that CD. yet you pay like $10 - 20 a CD. With iTunes, you spend $1 or $2 for those songs that you like and don't have to buy the rest. Kind like the use of digital cameras vs. film cameras where you can selectively print out digital photos which on a per print basis is more expensive.
file sharing / downloading may be a plus for adults who have the means to afford a CD after they have tried and liked the downloads. Unfortunately, they aren't as avid CD buyers as the youngsters who are likely to just download. Thus the decline in CD sales. I would also venture to guess that the average age of CD buyers has gone up as well.
One puzzle that I don't quite understand is that legal downloading of songs offered by colleges isn't widely accepted by college students. There are various theories on that but I haven't found them to be convincing.
"On the other hand, I am not convinced that it is a plus to have those crappy speakers built into the player: Samsung should observe how people use those types of devices."
Of course no tiny speaker can do justice to music, but Samsung's idea is sharing. There'll be plenty of suckers for that, plus that's good for background music listening - I won't put buds into my ears, not even high-end headphone.
At work I have a 51-CD changer for "background" music, plus for obvious reasons good amplifiers and preamp. Even 51 CDs become too familiar after a while. Therefore I may try out the Samsung gadget for more variety. Or change the 51 CDs every week. Or use my PC as music server. The latter may not be a good idea as I use PC (latest high speed dual core CPU) for number crunching such as SPICE.
Of course no tiny speaker can do justice to music, but Samsung's idea is sharing. There'll be plenty of suckers for that, plus that's good for background music listening - I won't put buds into my ears, not even high-end headphone.
At work I have a 51-CD changer for "background" music, plus for obvious reasons good amplifiers and preamp. Even 51 CDs become too familiar after a while. Therefore I may try out the Samsung gadget for more variety. Or change the 51 CDs every week. Or use my PC as music server. The latter may not be a good idea as I use PC (latest high speed dual core CPU) for number crunching such as SPICE.
Samsung K5 v. Apple iPod
fokker: " ... Samsung seems to have understood one critical element of iPod's success: software. Lots of usability issues with early-day portables are software related. iTunes addressed that, eluoquently and effectively. ..."
FYI: Samsung makes a very large percentage of Apple's displays (monitors ... & soon HDTVs).
This means that (as in the past) if Samsung wants to marjket something similar to whatever Apple is doing, they do it with Apple's blessing and, often, Apple engineering assistance. My guess is that Samsung may actually be licensing a GIU (software) from Apple, or an Apple developed equivelent. That way Samsung a) gets an iPod matching product to market in Asia & elsewhere, b) gets preceived as a competitor with a comparable product ...
... and Apple gets a) some royalties, b) some "captive" competition, c) a foothold and/or leapfrog over the other competition, d) a cross compatible platform to bounce new ideas off of, e) a market test vehicle beyond the iPod ... === a win / win for both companies and a win / win / win for those who would rather buy something other than the mainstream (MS windows) ...
....
classd4sure: " ... Harvard's study on the matter has shown the claims of declined sales made by the record companies to be erroneous. The record companies claimed them to be in error... who do you find to be more believable?????? ..."
The keywords here are type of music / content (sic - genre ?) ... anyway, the sales of quality recorded music is on the increase ... the bubble gum / teenie bop / rap / hip hop types = not.
Interesting aside = the flight to quality is ongoing and ever present. The quality of equipment driven by leading edge methodologies (like DIY and high end components) continues to get better and better ... even legacy equipment designs are improving = tubes, etc.
... and costs continue to fall comparatively ... really great audio equipment like what we have in the warehouse stores was not available 10, 20 years ago ... same applies to lots of other areas of technology = better and better.
The flight to quality has been around, arguably, forever, but certainly since WWII ... all metal airplanes, FM radio, 20 year warranty washing machines, dish washers, basic automotive transport ... cheaper, better, faster, quieter ... often for the same inflation adjusted dollars ... sometimes less.
fokker: " ... Samsung seems to have understood one critical element of iPod's success: software. Lots of usability issues with early-day portables are software related. iTunes addressed that, eluoquently and effectively. ..."
FYI: Samsung makes a very large percentage of Apple's displays (monitors ... & soon HDTVs).
This means that (as in the past) if Samsung wants to marjket something similar to whatever Apple is doing, they do it with Apple's blessing and, often, Apple engineering assistance. My guess is that Samsung may actually be licensing a GIU (software) from Apple, or an Apple developed equivelent. That way Samsung a) gets an iPod matching product to market in Asia & elsewhere, b) gets preceived as a competitor with a comparable product ...
... and Apple gets a) some royalties, b) some "captive" competition, c) a foothold and/or leapfrog over the other competition, d) a cross compatible platform to bounce new ideas off of, e) a market test vehicle beyond the iPod ... === a win / win for both companies and a win / win / win for those who would rather buy something other than the mainstream (MS windows) ...
....
classd4sure: " ... Harvard's study on the matter has shown the claims of declined sales made by the record companies to be erroneous. The record companies claimed them to be in error... who do you find to be more believable?????? ..."
The keywords here are type of music / content (sic - genre ?) ... anyway, the sales of quality recorded music is on the increase ... the bubble gum / teenie bop / rap / hip hop types = not.
Interesting aside = the flight to quality is ongoing and ever present. The quality of equipment driven by leading edge methodologies (like DIY and high end components) continues to get better and better ... even legacy equipment designs are improving = tubes, etc.
... and costs continue to fall comparatively ... really great audio equipment like what we have in the warehouse stores was not available 10, 20 years ago ... same applies to lots of other areas of technology = better and better.
The flight to quality has been around, arguably, forever, but certainly since WWII ... all metal airplanes, FM radio, 20 year warranty washing machines, dish washers, basic automotive transport ... cheaper, better, faster, quieter ... often for the same inflation adjusted dollars ... sometimes less.
Advancement?
Sorry guys,
I have to totally disagree on this. It is a question of perspective, if you are in the power structure and are trying to dumb down the population so they can be controlled easier then tremendous progress has been made!
Think about the last time you had a fast food person actually count change, really sad.
Roger
Sorry guys,
I have to totally disagree on this. It is a question of perspective, if you are in the power structure and are trying to dumb down the population so they can be controlled easier then tremendous progress has been made!
Think about the last time you had a fast food person actually count change, really sad.
Roger
more meatheads?
" ... if you are in the power structure and are trying to dumb down the population so they can be controlled easier then tremendous progress has been made! ..."
... Since my degree in Physics from a small California state run collage has not landed any jobs in the field, does that mean I have to pay back my student loans?
" ... if you are in the power structure and are trying to dumb down the population so they can be controlled easier then tremendous progress has been made! ..."
... Since my degree in Physics from a small California state run collage has not landed any jobs in the field, does that mean I have to pay back my student loans?
Re: Advancement?
but why would you care? and if you do, how much more are you willing to pay for a cashier who counts changes at a fast food place? Would someone be willing to hire such a cashier in return for the amount you are willing to pay for him?
The point is that no one can push his or her preference onto the mass / mkt. If the market doesn't support your preference (for a cashier who can count, for example), you have two choices: a) accept it and move on; or b) you support it personally.
In your case, if you care about having a cashier that can count, go to your local fast food joint, and offer to pay the franchisee enough so that s/he is willing to hire such a cashier.
If you aren't willing to support your preference yourself, you probably should not blame others for not willing to support your preference.
sx881663 said:
but why would you care? and if you do, how much more are you willing to pay for a cashier who counts changes at a fast food place? Would someone be willing to hire such a cashier in return for the amount you are willing to pay for him?
The point is that no one can push his or her preference onto the mass / mkt. If the market doesn't support your preference (for a cashier who can count, for example), you have two choices: a) accept it and move on; or b) you support it personally.
In your case, if you care about having a cashier that can count, go to your local fast food joint, and offer to pay the franchisee enough so that s/he is willing to hire such a cashier.
If you aren't willing to support your preference yourself, you probably should not blame others for not willing to support your preference.
one could be ...
... concerned about the general quality of life.
" ... why would you care? and if you do, how much more are you willing to pay for a cashier who counts changes at a fast food place? Would someone be willing to hire such a cashier in return for the amount you are willing to pay for him? ..."
Increasing Quality might = fast food with a cashier with the ability to make chnge ... or at least intellegent enough to refill the paper towels and potty paper when needed.
Increasing Quality might = a Class-D amp with better audio characturistics ... at the same costs.
(And Increasing Quality might = a college graduate who could spell.)
My point being that all the technologies seem to be getting better, faster, quieter, lower cost, etc., ... except possibly the service industry = fokker's suggestions about fast food workers being but one area.
... concerned about the general quality of life.
" ... why would you care? and if you do, how much more are you willing to pay for a cashier who counts changes at a fast food place? Would someone be willing to hire such a cashier in return for the amount you are willing to pay for him? ..."
Increasing Quality might = fast food with a cashier with the ability to make chnge ... or at least intellegent enough to refill the paper towels and potty paper when needed.
Increasing Quality might = a Class-D amp with better audio characturistics ... at the same costs.
(And Increasing Quality might = a college graduate who could spell.)
My point being that all the technologies seem to be getting better, faster, quieter, lower cost, etc., ... except possibly the service industry = fokker's suggestions about fast food workers being but one area.
Re: one could be ...
You've heard of Bill Gates, right? What happens when someone's product becomes so widely used and depended upon that you eventually have to accept whatever changes are made to the product based on the creator's preferences?
I would like to add proper grammar and punctuation to that list
fokker said:
You've heard of Bill Gates, right? What happens when someone's product becomes so widely used and depended upon that you eventually have to accept whatever changes are made to the product based on the creator's preferences?
FastEddy said:
I would like to add proper grammar and punctuation to that list
Re: Re: one could be ...
it is true that some people don't like certain aspects of MS' products, or their business model. That is natural, healthy and to be expected. No product can satisfy all the people.
However, i have not found a rejection of MS products by the market. I hope to draw you attention to the difference between the market's acceptance of a product and some people's rejection of that product.
BWRX said:
it is true that some people don't like certain aspects of MS' products, or their business model. That is natural, healthy and to be expected. No product can satisfy all the people.
However, i have not found a rejection of MS products by the market. I hope to draw you attention to the difference between the market's acceptance of a product and some people's rejection of that product.
Topic please ...
... I'm trying to remember how this got on a politics tangent ... Oh, yeah, now I remember ... Al Gore sits on the board at Apple and Apple is supposedly not buying FreeStyle processor chips, so FreeStyle is now entering the Class-D amplifier market ... or something like that.
Anyone actually seen the FreeStyle designs / circuit diagrams / eval boards / distortion specs ... ? (other than from their publicity announcements.)
... I'm trying to remember how this got on a politics tangent ... Oh, yeah, now I remember ... Al Gore sits on the board at Apple and Apple is supposedly not buying FreeStyle processor chips, so FreeStyle is now entering the Class-D amplifier market ... or something like that.
Anyone actually seen the FreeStyle designs / circuit diagrams / eval boards / distortion specs ... ? (other than from their publicity announcements.)
Re: Re: Advancement?
I really didn’t want to get into this or even respond but this does need an answer.
Point 1) Why would I need to pay more? We already are spending far too much for educational systems that aren’t working. I can’t believe you really think a system that fails to provide the most basic skills needed in society is OK!
Point 2) Pushing your ideas and preferences into the mass markets is called advertising! The less educated your target markets are the easier your job. Most ads are at grade school level and must be working as the stuff sells and the companies prosper.
Point 3) Point has already been made, we have already paid and paid!
Point 4) Totally different deal! I am supporting it and not getting what I paid for!
I don’t see how any one can object to higher, ie. reasonable, levels of education. It makes communication so much easier when both sides understand each other. With the tremendous disparity we have now even putting in a fast food order and trying to get what you want is a challenge. To my mind this is not acceptable! We are getting ripped off. When I was in school if you didn’t learn you were failed and needed to take it over. Peer pressure assured your trying as well as some corporal punishment if you misbehaved. There wasn’t even a psychologist on call let alone resident. Funny how well that worked!
Roger
Edit) Sorry about the off track discussion but this is important to most of us.
fokker said:
I really didn’t want to get into this or even respond but this does need an answer.
Point 1) Why would I need to pay more? We already are spending far too much for educational systems that aren’t working. I can’t believe you really think a system that fails to provide the most basic skills needed in society is OK!
Point 2) Pushing your ideas and preferences into the mass markets is called advertising! The less educated your target markets are the easier your job. Most ads are at grade school level and must be working as the stuff sells and the companies prosper.
Point 3) Point has already been made, we have already paid and paid!
Point 4) Totally different deal! I am supporting it and not getting what I paid for!
I don’t see how any one can object to higher, ie. reasonable, levels of education. It makes communication so much easier when both sides understand each other. With the tremendous disparity we have now even putting in a fast food order and trying to get what you want is a challenge. To my mind this is not acceptable! We are getting ripped off. When I was in school if you didn’t learn you were failed and needed to take it over. Peer pressure assured your trying as well as some corporal punishment if you misbehaved. There wasn’t even a psychologist on call let alone resident. Funny how well that worked!
Roger
Edit) Sorry about the off track discussion but this is important to most of us.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Advancement?
You don't think Mcpukes makes enough money selling their gutt rott to train individuals with anything other than a series of beeps and symbols?
He's not the owner of the store who hired the brainless employee for brainwashing, so it's not up to him to pay more for them to get basic experience.
"The point is that no one can push his or her preference onto the mass / mkt. If the market doesn't support your preference"
Get real man. It's done all the time via commercial brainwashing. What do you think, windows made it so huge because it was good? Reliable? Robust? Well rounded? Secure?
Windows brainswashes new PC users much like Mcpukes does to employees, series of beeps and symbols, keeps sthem oblivious to how it really works, or the true capabilies a computer has. So what happens to the vast majority of them when they click on a symbol and don't get the expected beep.... their entire world crashes down, to the point they have to hire someone to fix it or pay some help desk ... where all can do is read off a checklist, not actually being allowed to think for themselves or paid for their own skillset. Anyone who's above that may be considered a hacker, a diy'r, an engineer... we're not in the majority.
You get brainwashed just by opening your eyes, going outside, turning on the TV or radio, surfing the web.. you're told what you want and how you want it, your subconscious hears and often obeys, this has sculpted our vision of reality, religion, government..and produced vast fortunes for those who use it to their benefit. The majority of the population is oblivious to this.
Advertising doesn't just sell pop and chips, it sells politicians, wars, religions. Are you looking forward to blueray... yet?
Irrespective of other aspects Ipod made it huge largely because of the advertising they did, telling people what they wanted, needed, imposing their views/products /services on you.
Samsung will stand a good chance to share in their market simply because they're also smart enough to launch a mass advertising campaign, and if they didn't, no matter how good the product, nobody would give a damn for it.
"The point is that no one can push his or her preference onto the mass / mkt. If the market doesn't support your preference (for a cashier who can count, for example), you have two choices: a) accept it and move on; or b) you support it personally."
Explain Nuforce's success.
So I obviously disagree with that. Also, should the rest of the world accept some inferior product as the de facto standard... you're going to get dragged along with it. Windows..... VHS, power transmission that needs lines, cabon based fuel vehicles...
Don't be so blind to how things really work.
fokker said:
You don't think Mcpukes makes enough money selling their gutt rott to train individuals with anything other than a series of beeps and symbols?
He's not the owner of the store who hired the brainless employee for brainwashing, so it's not up to him to pay more for them to get basic experience.
"The point is that no one can push his or her preference onto the mass / mkt. If the market doesn't support your preference"
Get real man. It's done all the time via commercial brainwashing. What do you think, windows made it so huge because it was good? Reliable? Robust? Well rounded? Secure?
Windows brainswashes new PC users much like Mcpukes does to employees, series of beeps and symbols, keeps sthem oblivious to how it really works, or the true capabilies a computer has. So what happens to the vast majority of them when they click on a symbol and don't get the expected beep.... their entire world crashes down, to the point they have to hire someone to fix it or pay some help desk ... where all can do is read off a checklist, not actually being allowed to think for themselves or paid for their own skillset. Anyone who's above that may be considered a hacker, a diy'r, an engineer... we're not in the majority.
You get brainwashed just by opening your eyes, going outside, turning on the TV or radio, surfing the web.. you're told what you want and how you want it, your subconscious hears and often obeys, this has sculpted our vision of reality, religion, government..and produced vast fortunes for those who use it to their benefit. The majority of the population is oblivious to this.
Advertising doesn't just sell pop and chips, it sells politicians, wars, religions. Are you looking forward to blueray... yet?
Irrespective of other aspects Ipod made it huge largely because of the advertising they did, telling people what they wanted, needed, imposing their views/products /services on you.
Samsung will stand a good chance to share in their market simply because they're also smart enough to launch a mass advertising campaign, and if they didn't, no matter how good the product, nobody would give a damn for it.
"The point is that no one can push his or her preference onto the mass / mkt. If the market doesn't support your preference (for a cashier who can count, for example), you have two choices: a) accept it and move on; or b) you support it personally."
Explain Nuforce's success.
So I obviously disagree with that. Also, should the rest of the world accept some inferior product as the de facto standard... you're going to get dragged along with it. Windows..... VHS, power transmission that needs lines, cabon based fuel vehicles...
Don't be so blind to how things really work.
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