Very nice.............
Last night I refell in love with my full rangers run wide open.
Music, emotion, I got lost in the music (and that's what it's really all about).
James Taylor Live 2-cd from 1992-1993.
Norman
Last night I refell in love with my full rangers run wide open.
Music, emotion, I got lost in the music (and that's what it's really all about).
James Taylor Live 2-cd from 1992-1993.
Norman
dual tang band 4" bamboo, but I have alpair 12s going into open baffle hopefully this weekend.
norman
norman
I was thinking of trying Alpair 10's or 12's next😎. Please let us know how it goes! My concern is the Alpair 12 has a QTS of 0.327 and the 10's QTS is 0.33 where as the 7 has a QTS of 0.574. My understanding is on an OB you want .5 or better😕. Perhaps you or someone else can chime in regarding this matter.
Ramon
Ramon
For bass duties, I have 15's used with 80hz f-mod (rolls at 6db), so the alpair doesn't need massive bass.
But yes, a higher qts would allow the driver to go lower open baffle or infinite baffle.
The driver would roll off below its mass corner (fs / qts, maybe qes) when not in a box.
I figure the alpair 12 will roll off below 150hz, that's fine to me.
I plan to run my alpair on an open baffle for the best vocal sound quality (least box colorations).
I had a tang band w3-871s on open baffle, I loved it. It was scrapped it because baffle got moldy when in temp storage.
Norman
But yes, a higher qts would allow the driver to go lower open baffle or infinite baffle.
The driver would roll off below its mass corner (fs / qts, maybe qes) when not in a box.
I figure the alpair 12 will roll off below 150hz, that's fine to me.
I plan to run my alpair on an open baffle for the best vocal sound quality (least box colorations).
I had a tang band w3-871s on open baffle, I loved it. It was scrapped it because baffle got moldy when in temp storage.
Norman
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Are you saying the speaker level taps on your plate amp are full range and not affected by the amp's built in xover? Or are you high passing to the Alpair via the plate amp xover and simple meant there is no passive xover on the Alpairs?
There are no speaker taps on subs, they have an 8 din plug from controller on each sub. Line out of integrated is going to subwoofer controller. Controller tells Subs too enter around 150 Hz . Integrated amp output speaker/taps of integrated are going directly to Alpair 7's with no x-over. I hope this answers your question.
Alpair 7 Revisited review
Hello,
Thought I would update you on the sound of the Alpair 7 OB system after much time. For a long time I used a Scott 222C that had
ailments that I have repaired🙂 and is now tweaked showing the true beauty of these drivers and their subsequent design. My Scott 222C has had numerous upgrades of caps (obbligato Gold Premium) between inverter and output stages, some Bradley resistors (Only!) replaced, selenium rectifier was replaced with a silicon bridge and Wima Black Boxes at the input stage. Also, all tubes were replaced with the following Brimar 12AX7 at (input-stages) line and phono stages, Siemens E80CF inverter-stage, Siemens E84L's at output and an Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 rectifier. All parts have had months of break in 
time.
Needless to say I would not be updating you if I were not enamored with what I have been hearing for weeks/months with the Alpair 7, especially after eliminating a nasty
hum that haunted
the Scott and my life for too long. Still a very minor amount left in right channel but only really audible when using my low output MC cartridge and there is a very quiet passage, not enough of a nuisance to discontinue evaluation or listening enjoyment, it will be eradicated later
, it was time to sit and listen.
First, I have no connection too Mark Audio or any of it's affiliates and second I am not paid to write this. Like many of you I am a music lover first and foremost and a DIY fan next.
If you read this post from the beginning you will be familiar with design build and construction of this simple yet elegant design. Thanks again must go out to Phil Townsend for his expert craftsmanship and patience in construction and input on design. I am a finisher by trade and without Phil's speaker cabinet building mastery I would have likely had to depend on someone less knowledgeable in this arena so I am fortunate and grateful.
SOUND
I will cut too the quick here as I have already gone on enough about this little project. Yes, the Alpair 7 sound fantastic, yes they have a clarity matched by few drivers, no they do not beam or honk at you nor do they split your head in half with a razor, like so many Full Range drivers IME. Yes they have finesse and stable imaging, yes they need a box or in my case subwoofers (see photos @ beginning) too supplement bass.
In this OB design the speakers throw a deep soundstage too my back wall which is 5ft from driver, they do this superbly with digital as well. Transients and textures are clear detailed and never overblown. Dispersion which is a big gripe with me is excellent, you do not have to sit with your head in a vice, you can wander over too the record shelf and ponder your next record or CD without major sound compromise.
Most importantly how natural do they sound?
I listen to 70% classical and 30% jazz and rock which includes electronic/Krautrock etc. I am one that believes DIY people differ from the herd in their ability to distinguish natural sounding systems from mechanical sounding systems. The Alpair 7 will merely reveal what you throw at it, that's all and it says a lot. The Scott amplifiers are often referred to as sounding fudge colored as opposed to early carmel colored Conrad-Johnson gear. I believe this pretty close to the truth, before proper modifications that is. The combination of my 222C with all it's tweaks (and there are more to come,
hard to leave well enough alone when you love DIYing) and not straying to far from it's origins works a magic with the Alpair 7.
The natural and rich beauty from the Vienna Philharmonic performing Anton Bruckner's 7th symphony recorded at Musikeverein Vienna with Nikolaus Harnoncourt (Teldec 3984-24488-2) is reproduced with exceptional deftness and a very pleasing balance. Smoother than most tweeter systems with more than adequate headroom and a more realistic sonic picture without exaggeration. Oddly this speaker can play up to satisfying (living room is 13x23) levels with large orchestral music, undoubtedly the subwoofers play a big roll in this. The 7's have very good control and play horn fortissimo's with aplomb and assurance that I found surprising, just make sure too follow Mark's instructions on break in as a local DIY friend blew a pair the first day with Hip-Hop.
Another important note is how well the Alpair 7 integrates with my subwoofer system. Imbalance or lag is not an issue plus being able to dial in bass proportion is easily handled with a separate crossover box (comes with subwoofers) which incidentally I have set to enter at 140-150 Hz and the phase set around 180 degrees. At 180 degrees I found the tautest most natural sounding bass response after much testing in my living room.
Lastly, the Alpair 7's play chamber music whether jazz or classical amazingly well, transients are quick and never artificial sounding with low
level resolution not to be scoffed at. The 7's allow quiet delicate moments and all the subtle inner textures of Anton Webern's String Trio Op.20 on Nimbus Records (NI 5668) to enter from the silent ether with plucks and various other sonic flavors with astounding clarity resembling electrostatic speakers but without the artificial aural mechanics and narrow dispersion electrostats are known for.
The 7's simply sound natural and I know of no other way to put it. On the "Coleman Hawkins encounters Ben Webster" on a Verve (CD 314 521 427-1) recording the 7's perform the magical act you are there trick with a warm, luscious sound that never is muddled or antiseptic, just straight forward, beautiful and elegant. It also displays all the inner hallmarks of a truly classic Capitol tube recording with a natural warmth that suits this performance just the way it's supposed too.
I cannot say enough about these fine speakers except next time you look at at purchasing a pair of Fostex, Lowther or even Feastrex or any full range driver for that matter, you give these a listen thrown into a piece of plywood, cardboard, cabinet or whatever suits your taste. You might just find you saved a lot of money and didn't miss a note.
Ramon Sena
Related System
Scott 222C Modified
Scheu Premier II Turntable
SAEC 308N tonearm
Coral MC81 cartridge
Sony SCD-1
Coph Nia Phonostage made in Sweden
Alpair 7 in small L OB
NHT Sub Two, two 10 inch drivers per cabinet Freq 21Hz-200Hz with 250w Sunfire/Carver plate amps in each cab.
Cables, DIY silver,Stealth, CRL and Aural Harmonies.
Hello,
Thought I would update you on the sound of the Alpair 7 OB system after much time. For a long time I used a Scott 222C that had
ailments that I have repaired🙂 and is now tweaked showing the true beauty of these drivers and their subsequent design. My Scott 222C has had numerous upgrades of caps (obbligato Gold Premium) between inverter and output stages, some Bradley resistors (Only!) replaced, selenium rectifier was replaced with a silicon bridge and Wima Black Boxes at the input stage. Also, all tubes were replaced with the following Brimar 12AX7 at (input-stages) line and phono stages, Siemens E80CF inverter-stage, Siemens E84L's at output and an Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 rectifier. All parts have had months of break in time.Needless to say I would not be updating you if I were not enamored with what I have been hearing for weeks/months with the Alpair 7, especially after eliminating a nasty
hum that haunted the Scott and my life for too long. Still a very minor amount left in right channel but only really audible when using my low output MC cartridge and there is a very quiet passage, not enough of a nuisance to discontinue evaluation or listening enjoyment, it will be eradicated later, it was time to sit and listen.First, I have no connection too Mark Audio or any of it's affiliates and second I am not paid to write this. Like many of you I am a music lover first and foremost and a DIY fan next.
If you read this post from the beginning you will be familiar with design build and construction of this simple yet elegant design. Thanks again must go out to Phil Townsend for his expert craftsmanship and patience in construction and input on design. I am a finisher by trade and without Phil's speaker cabinet building mastery I would have likely had to depend on someone less knowledgeable in this arena so I am fortunate and grateful.
SOUND
I will cut too the quick here as I have already gone on enough about this little project. Yes, the Alpair 7 sound fantastic, yes they have a clarity matched by few drivers, no they do not beam or honk at you nor do they split your head in half with a razor, like so many Full Range drivers IME. Yes they have finesse and stable imaging, yes they need a box or in my case subwoofers (see photos @ beginning) too supplement bass.
In this OB design the speakers throw a deep soundstage too my back wall which is 5ft from driver, they do this superbly with digital as well. Transients and textures are clear detailed and never overblown. Dispersion which is a big gripe with me is excellent, you do not have to sit with your head in a vice, you can wander over too the record shelf and ponder your next record or CD without major sound compromise.
Most importantly how natural do they sound?
I listen to 70% classical and 30% jazz and rock which includes electronic/Krautrock etc. I am one that believes DIY people differ from the herd in their ability to distinguish natural sounding systems from mechanical sounding systems. The Alpair 7 will merely reveal what you throw at it, that's all and it says a lot. The Scott amplifiers are often referred to as sounding fudge colored as opposed to early carmel colored Conrad-Johnson gear. I believe this pretty close to the truth, before proper modifications that is. The combination of my 222C with all it's tweaks (and there are more to come,
hard to leave well enough alone when you love DIYing) and not straying to far from it's origins works a magic with the Alpair 7. The natural and rich beauty from the Vienna Philharmonic performing Anton Bruckner's 7th symphony recorded at Musikeverein Vienna with Nikolaus Harnoncourt (Teldec 3984-24488-2) is reproduced with exceptional deftness and a very pleasing balance. Smoother than most tweeter systems with more than adequate headroom and a more realistic sonic picture without exaggeration. Oddly this speaker can play up to satisfying (living room is 13x23) levels with large orchestral music, undoubtedly the subwoofers play a big roll in this. The 7's have very good control and play horn fortissimo's with aplomb and assurance that I found surprising, just make sure too follow Mark's instructions on break in as a local DIY friend blew a pair the first day with Hip-Hop.
Another important note is how well the Alpair 7 integrates with my subwoofer system. Imbalance or lag is not an issue plus being able to dial in bass proportion is easily handled with a separate crossover box (comes with subwoofers) which incidentally I have set to enter at 140-150 Hz and the phase set around 180 degrees. At 180 degrees I found the tautest most natural sounding bass response after much testing in my living room.
Lastly, the Alpair 7's play chamber music whether jazz or classical amazingly well, transients are quick and never artificial sounding with low
level resolution not to be scoffed at. The 7's allow quiet delicate moments and all the subtle inner textures of Anton Webern's String Trio Op.20 on Nimbus Records (NI 5668) to enter from the silent ether with plucks and various other sonic flavors with astounding clarity resembling electrostatic speakers but without the artificial aural mechanics and narrow dispersion electrostats are known for.The 7's simply sound natural and I know of no other way to put it. On the "Coleman Hawkins encounters Ben Webster" on a Verve (CD 314 521 427-1) recording the 7's perform the magical act you are there trick with a warm, luscious sound that never is muddled or antiseptic, just straight forward, beautiful and elegant. It also displays all the inner hallmarks of a truly classic Capitol tube recording with a natural warmth that suits this performance just the way it's supposed too.
I cannot say enough about these fine speakers except next time you look at at purchasing a pair of Fostex, Lowther or even Feastrex or any full range driver for that matter, you give these a listen thrown into a piece of plywood, cardboard, cabinet or whatever suits your taste. You might just find you saved a lot of money and didn't miss a note.
Ramon Sena
Related System
Scott 222C Modified
Scheu Premier II Turntable
SAEC 308N tonearm
Coral MC81 cartridge
Sony SCD-1
Coph Nia Phonostage made in Sweden
Alpair 7 in small L OB
NHT Sub Two, two 10 inch drivers per cabinet Freq 21Hz-200Hz with 250w Sunfire/Carver plate amps in each cab.
Cables, DIY silver,Stealth, CRL and Aural Harmonies.
Attachments
I think this is a great way to build a speaker. It's actually very simple... whether it's the MA, TB, Fostex, etc... mount it onto an OB that sits atop your powered subwoofer, blend the sub into the full rangers... you get 'mostly' full range sound and you get open baffle sound too. This plus the full bass adds up to a really great way to build an excellent sounding speaker... and without mucking around crossing over a tweeter. But you can add a super tweeter crossed over 12 or 15k if you like easily and it can be something cheap.
Zilla
Zilla
Agreed,
This is a simple way to design a system provided you have the subs or build them.
You do not need a super tweeter with the Alpair 7 it goes up to 23 k and sounds like it, the 7 is simply astounding. In fact I think a super tweeter would cause more harm with this driver and be a waste of money you would get nowhere by adding one IMO.
Very nice to see you are still listening to the same setup. I change etups weekly (but still learning). 5' from the front wall is a definite requirement for medium to narrow open baffles. That wall bounce is nice. I perfer to make a foam box behind the driver so I'd have zero rear sound (especially if closer to the front wall).
Norman
Norman
I was lucky enough to hear this system, although for way too short a time 🙂
Monte Verdi's whole system is really sympatico throughout, and it's a big compliment to the Alpair 7's that they are never out-classed. I was really surprised at the transparency and clarity, and the sparkle. These beauties really "breathe" too, the way he has them positioned (well away from the front wall).
I hope I get to hear these again soon! 🙂 Phil's Feastrex OB system has also gotten a tremendous overhaul in the past year.
Monte Verdi's whole system is really sympatico throughout, and it's a big compliment to the Alpair 7's that they are never out-classed. I was really surprised at the transparency and clarity, and the sparkle. These beauties really "breathe" too, the way he has them positioned (well away from the front wall).
I hope I get to hear these again soon! 🙂 Phil's Feastrex OB system has also gotten a tremendous overhaul in the past year.
Norman,
On second thought, you should try using a rear firing tweeter, who knows it might work better.
Ramon
On second thought, you should try using a rear firing tweeter, who knows it might work better.
Ramon
Not knowing where you obtained your 7's, may I point to Planet 10's latest products?
EnABL 2.0 on an Alpair 7.
This add on removes that slight metal taste to certain instruments, refines the delicacy of every delicate note and adds even greater depth to orchestral renderings. Throw in a pair of Ground Controls (see Phil for these if you aren't interested in the commercial version) and my Lowther PM6A silver VC 16 ohm drivers have met their match and in some cases, been bested..... by a 4" driver!
I can only imagine what the larger drivers will be like!
Bud
EnABL 2.0 on an Alpair 7.
This add on removes that slight metal taste to certain instruments, refines the delicacy of every delicate note and adds even greater depth to orchestral renderings. Throw in a pair of Ground Controls (see Phil for these if you aren't interested in the commercial version) and my Lowther PM6A silver VC 16 ohm drivers have met their match and in some cases, been bested..... by a 4" driver!
I can only imagine what the larger drivers will be like!
Bud
Thanks Bud,
Yes, Phil has a pair of EnABL 2.0 Alpair 7's that we are going to experiment with soon. Also we plan on doing a shootout with a standard pair for kicks, will report back!
Ramon
Yes, Phil has a pair of EnABL 2.0 Alpair 7's that we are going to experiment with soon. Also we plan on doing a shootout with a standard pair for kicks, will report back!
Ramon
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