There was no fullrange forum at the time this was started and for whatever reason was never moved. I guess the moderators don't have the time to search for/move all the pertinent threads.
Unless you either only listen to chamber music or at very modest average SPL or you just like to hear your amp clip ~constantly, then WRT tube amps, 35W PP is about the minimum I would recommend, with 60-100 being my preference.
The only Jordan system I've auditioned is Jim Griffin's little BRs driven with various relatively high power SS amps in both large and small rooms, so was able to easily find its rather low amplitude audible distortion limits. In either a small room or 'intimate' seating layout though, they will do fine if enough clean power is available.
For only 10W though, I recommend at least 95dB eff. speakers.
GM
Unless you either only listen to chamber music or at very modest average SPL or you just like to hear your amp clip ~constantly, then WRT tube amps, 35W PP is about the minimum I would recommend, with 60-100 being my preference.
The only Jordan system I've auditioned is Jim Griffin's little BRs driven with various relatively high power SS amps in both large and small rooms, so was able to easily find its rather low amplitude audible distortion limits. In either a small room or 'intimate' seating layout though, they will do fine if enough clean power is available.
For only 10W though, I recommend at least 95dB eff. speakers.
GM
GM said:
Me thinks GM likes to listen loud... i'm using 2 W & 90 dB efficient speakers... every once in a while i wish for a bit more power, but for most of my listening i get away with it...
How much you need depends on, how loud, how big your room, what kind of music.
The low efficiency is my biggest issue with the Jordan...
dave
GM said:
I have to fully agree with this statement! That is like recommending at least a 105 db efficient speaker for a one watt amp, and this is about right too IMO.
planet10 said:
When you say you'd like more power, does this mean that your volume pot it at 100%
Bricolo said:
No at volumes i rarely like to have it at...
But a bit more power would be nice for those occasions... more amps on the way...
dave
volume / power ????
During a recent session at a top secret testing laboratory, attended by Dave D, myself, and several others, comfortable volume levels were measured at the listening position ( approx 3 meters from plane of the speakers)
Drivers were Fostex FE108E Sigmas in Buschhorn MkII enclosures, installed diagonally across a room corner, about 300cm from back wall.
Best guess to net efficiency of the speaker is about 93dB - hard to quantify exactly with a BLH, which like any multi pole radiation pattern derive a significant portion of the total energy at the listening position from boundary reinforcement.
Anyways, quite comfortable listening levels were averaging between 76-82dB ( C weighted)
How much power does that mean I'm using? I don't think at any point in the afternoon did we notice serious clipping issues with 2watts of EL84 triode monoblock power. Theory and the real world are very different places.
During a recent session at a top secret testing laboratory, attended by Dave D, myself, and several others, comfortable volume levels were measured at the listening position ( approx 3 meters from plane of the speakers)
Drivers were Fostex FE108E Sigmas in Buschhorn MkII enclosures, installed diagonally across a room corner, about 300cm from back wall.
Best guess to net efficiency of the speaker is about 93dB - hard to quantify exactly with a BLH, which like any multi pole radiation pattern derive a significant portion of the total energy at the listening position from boundary reinforcement.
Anyways, quite comfortable listening levels were averaging between 76-82dB ( C weighted)
How much power does that mean I'm using? I don't think at any point in the afternoon did we notice serious clipping issues with 2watts of EL84 triode monoblock power. Theory and the real world are very different places.
The loss at 3m will be about 15dB so the speakers were getting right around 97dB. If you weren't clipping, you must have been pretty close as that's right around 2W at the speaker.
🙂ensen.
🙂ensen.
here's the thing
Purple:
I don't have a VOM accurate enough to measure the applied AC to the driver terminals, nor a 'scope to observe the clipped waveforms of test signals, so these observations are about as meatball as you can get:
signal source:
FM interstation noise
1 meter on axis of (single) driver (FE108E Sigma) 70db.
Listening position (actually 2.85 meter) 64 db. The room is only moderately damped, and of course at that distance in spite of the higher frequency directivity that can narrow the listening window for "audiophile grade" soundstage/image etc etc, you're hearing not only both speakers, but the room.
No doubt since FM noise is broad spectrum and the meter is ungated, even at 1M it's picking up a substantial amount of reflected energy. Which was really my point - unless you listen in an anechoic chamber or outdoors, you're gonna hear more than any simple math might predict.
At 70 - 75 db SPL, I know for a fact that my 25wpc P/P EL34 amp doesn't clip, but since the Fostex drivers hav fully broken in the effect with the 2 watt babySETs is so much more musically involving and intimate, that the big amp seems positively brutish by comparison.
There are some things that can be appreciated, but you'll never be able to measure.
Dave:
what new amps are on the way for your system?
Purple:
I don't have a VOM accurate enough to measure the applied AC to the driver terminals, nor a 'scope to observe the clipped waveforms of test signals, so these observations are about as meatball as you can get:
signal source:
FM interstation noise
1 meter on axis of (single) driver (FE108E Sigma) 70db.
Listening position (actually 2.85 meter) 64 db. The room is only moderately damped, and of course at that distance in spite of the higher frequency directivity that can narrow the listening window for "audiophile grade" soundstage/image etc etc, you're hearing not only both speakers, but the room.
No doubt since FM noise is broad spectrum and the meter is ungated, even at 1M it's picking up a substantial amount of reflected energy. Which was really my point - unless you listen in an anechoic chamber or outdoors, you're gonna hear more than any simple math might predict.
At 70 - 75 db SPL, I know for a fact that my 25wpc P/P EL34 amp doesn't clip, but since the Fostex drivers hav fully broken in the effect with the 2 watt babySETs is so much more musically involving and intimate, that the big amp seems positively brutish by comparison.
There are some things that can be appreciated, but you'll never be able to measure.
Dave:
what new amps are on the way for your system?
purplepeople said:
6 dB for every doubling of distance... so lets say 9 dB + 82 dB = 91 dB...
dave
Re: here's the thing
You know how fast i work 🙂
XO `1st so i can hook up the subs... got the Don Stenton signature amp for that for now... an allen wright inspred EL84 amp at some point... others in between.
dave
chrisb said:
You know how fast i work 🙂
XO `1st so i can hook up the subs... got the Don Stenton signature amp for that for now... an allen wright inspred EL84 amp at some point... others in between.
dave
Re: Yuor place or mine?
Didn't someone ask you about selling your monoblocs?
I'm gathering iron for at least 2 more of those...
Highest in the queue is an RH-84 amp... i have the guinea pig together, it just has a nasty noise i have to track down and then it needs the power supply re-repaired (to clean up after the trouble shooting) -- at this point i suspect a bad filament winding on the power transformer.
Also want to see if i can do a 50EH5 amp with just 3 Rs (+ power supply)... that one is just for fun.
dave
chrisb said:
Didn't someone ask you about selling your monoblocs?
I'm gathering iron for at least 2 more of those...
Highest in the queue is an RH-84 amp... i have the guinea pig together, it just has a nasty noise i have to track down and then it needs the power supply re-repaired (to clean up after the trouble shooting) -- at this point i suspect a bad filament winding on the power transformer.
Also want to see if i can do a 50EH5 amp with just 3 Rs (+ power supply)... that one is just for fun.
dave
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