Ok, so I decide to really push it to see how loud it will go.
The fane (8 ohm) is set a bit lower gain than the double 15's (4ohm total).
Amp is ab 600a (300 stereo rms into 4).
Active crossover LR 24db/octave @ 150hz.
So it's thumping along, enough to feel it through the concrete at 10'.
Clip lights starting to blink on active crossover (signal getting a bit high).
Yellow clip light starting to blink on the woofer channel on the amplifier.
Then the fane goes "sktttttt" then goes silent.
My wife goes "Oh no !!!!!!"
I said "It's ok, I have some more," refering to the fane but I'm thinking the amplifier quit.
I turn it down.
Touch cone, voice coil not scraping (hmm, shouldn't anyway, 250 watt rms driver and wasn't bottoming out).
Check back of speaker box.
The binding post plug walked out of the speaker box's binding post !!!!
All is well.
I know it is extreme, but I may get a double 12" fane box built.
Can't say as I would need it, but it would move half as far and have 1/4 of the harmonic distortion.
Scoop crossed 150hz to double 12" whizzers and piezos is a typical reggae band setup overseas I'm told.
Overall, I'm pretty impressed for an $85 driver, especially when crossed at 150hz, 100hz had no midbass.
In room it sounds balanced.
And I don't have to worry about it.
Great setup for a bass head that wants intelligibility.
Norman
The fane (8 ohm) is set a bit lower gain than the double 15's (4ohm total).
Amp is ab 600a (300 stereo rms into 4).
Active crossover LR 24db/octave @ 150hz.
So it's thumping along, enough to feel it through the concrete at 10'.
Clip lights starting to blink on active crossover (signal getting a bit high).
Yellow clip light starting to blink on the woofer channel on the amplifier.
Then the fane goes "sktttttt" then goes silent.
My wife goes "Oh no !!!!!!"
I said "It's ok, I have some more," refering to the fane but I'm thinking the amplifier quit.
I turn it down.
Touch cone, voice coil not scraping (hmm, shouldn't anyway, 250 watt rms driver and wasn't bottoming out).
Check back of speaker box.
The binding post plug walked out of the speaker box's binding post !!!!
All is well.
I know it is extreme, but I may get a double 12" fane box built.
Can't say as I would need it, but it would move half as far and have 1/4 of the harmonic distortion.
Scoop crossed 150hz to double 12" whizzers and piezos is a typical reggae band setup overseas I'm told.
Overall, I'm pretty impressed for an $85 driver, especially when crossed at 150hz, 100hz had no midbass.
In room it sounds balanced.
And I don't have to worry about it.
Great setup for a bass head that wants intelligibility.
Norman
new project started !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 x fane 12" (stacked over under).
Box will be 50" tall, 24" wide, and 15" deep.
Basically it's a box 15" x 24" x 39", but raised up 11" so between 2 drivers at ear seated level.
Top driver 1" from top and 1" between drivers.
I've spent time lately with single fane run wide open with 80hz @6db ppsl sub.
The bump at 125hz smooths out nice now that the box isn't on the floor.
Strange that voices localized to the floor when box was under tv.
Maybe tweeter basically touching screen is needed for Mcgurk effect.
Before with the 150hz 24db LR crossover, 20 seconds into ELO "Evil woman" it sounded completely wrong on the drum hits (going lower and lower).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R20f-TPKjzc
Single fane run wide open does well overall but breaks up on newer dance music.
The droning bass notes cause the fane to distort badly.
Tracks 1-8 hung in there fine.
but track 9 "Turn down for what" was a mess.
Pharrell Williams, Katy Perry, Aloe Blacc, Avicii, Bastille, Lorde, Bruno Mars, Miley Cyrus, John Legend, Various Artists - NOW That's What I Call Music Vol. 50 - Amazon.com Music
Otherwise, lately great for Jefferson airplane/starship, ELO, L.L Cool J greatest hits, and "Home" movie.
I can't believe my wife agreed to this beast of a box, luckily she enjoys music also.
I am blessed.
Norman
2 x fane 12" (stacked over under).
Box will be 50" tall, 24" wide, and 15" deep.
Basically it's a box 15" x 24" x 39", but raised up 11" so between 2 drivers at ear seated level.
Top driver 1" from top and 1" between drivers.
I've spent time lately with single fane run wide open with 80hz @6db ppsl sub.
The bump at 125hz smooths out nice now that the box isn't on the floor.
Strange that voices localized to the floor when box was under tv.
Maybe tweeter basically touching screen is needed for Mcgurk effect.
Before with the 150hz 24db LR crossover, 20 seconds into ELO "Evil woman" it sounded completely wrong on the drum hits (going lower and lower).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R20f-TPKjzc
Single fane run wide open does well overall but breaks up on newer dance music.
The droning bass notes cause the fane to distort badly.
Tracks 1-8 hung in there fine.
but track 9 "Turn down for what" was a mess.
Pharrell Williams, Katy Perry, Aloe Blacc, Avicii, Bastille, Lorde, Bruno Mars, Miley Cyrus, John Legend, Various Artists - NOW That's What I Call Music Vol. 50 - Amazon.com Music
Otherwise, lately great for Jefferson airplane/starship, ELO, L.L Cool J greatest hits, and "Home" movie.
I can't believe my wife agreed to this beast of a box, luckily she enjoys music also.
I am blessed.
Norman
Last edited:
I use the 12 Lta and can relate to what you say about the Fane. I gave up trying to get below 100 Hz OB with them. I bought some Chinese drivers from a nasty cheap speaker for clubs and took a wild guess about them being workable. Matt a DIY Audio member measured them and found them much like the Alpha 15 inch, he sold me the 12 Lta. Qts of the 15 inch drivers about 1.2 and 97 dB /watt @ 5R7, Fo 35 Hz. UK price about £50 a pair inc shipping. These on the 4 x 2 foot baffles. They work OK with standard tone controls ( 100 Hz set at maximum ). Whilst bass is less than some medium sizesd speakers they make every bass note count. I suspect much that seems to have bass is in fact arrived at in recording studios to work in cars and TV's. The OB will be OK with these sources, it won't sound impressive. The Quad ESL speakers no better on this.
I have just bough a NAD 3020 as a general purpose pre and power amp. It cost £15 and needs new capacitors. I have a hunch it will be real high end through these speakers. By that I mean no box sound.
I dare say I will build some 20 to 150 Hz sub-woffers if I find a design that makes sense.
The cost of this project was £50 15 inch units. £45, 12 Lta ( pair, thanks Matt ). £50 wood from Wicks builders merchant. £17 tweeters ( DT 74/8 ) crossed at 6 kHz with first order , they also use stadard EQ at 10 kHz and about 50 % lift. Chokes are mains power devices I had of about 3 mH for the 15 inch. They are 20 A but common mode so probably saturate used this way. They are about 30 VA cores using M6 metal. As I plan this to be active they are not considered part of a final design. The baffles are 50 % 1/2 inch ply and 50 % 1/2 inch MDF. They were bonded together using PVA glue and large water buckets as weights. The differential absorbion means both are bowed towards the plywood about 3/4 of an inch at the centre . I have a hunch that's no bad thing and looks like it was a choice. I stretched two metalic green car paint cans someone left in our workshop to spray the backs. Even that looks arty. The prop is low grade fenching post about 2 x1 1/2 inch sanded with a shed door type hinge. A simple gate hook to make it ridged. The pole stands on face towels as an easy solution to damping. As far as I know no down side to that. The speakers will lay flat in my car with no need to unscrwew anything. Sorry I have no camera working. When I do I will post.
Listening to Riders on the Storm on LP They sound perfect. I suspect mostly what's wrong with them is they tell the truth. 1970's TV is fine. It sounds no worse than usual with unsuspected good moments. It seems the studio sound and atmospheric shots often were different. The latter seem to be added on and of better quality. Our TV cop series the Sweeney has fantastic jazz like music. The bass quality somehow better than most sources. This is weird as the general sound is like a talking yoghurt pot ( two with string made for kids ) . I am told the EQ for 70's TV was done through real TV's . Hence the sound of an off centre drive unit. Sometimes they got it wrong and reality gets in.
System . Linn LP12 Ekos ( first batch ) Denon DL 110. Own design of pre amp, you have no idea how good that pick up sounds when correctly used. My Lyra went back in the box. Now anyone can use the system. Quad 33 / 303 mildly moded. Quad FM 3. Marantz CD67 SE and Flying Calf 20 bit DAC ( seems to be Crystal even down to using the reference design , albeit single rail PSU ). Panasonic DVR ( rather good ). And a Roku box. The CD 67 is very awful, however it is a good transport. The DAC is almost something I like. I have a little switch box and use the highest input level the Quad offers through tape in. This suits CD and line very well. I use DIN and one RCA option. Something very cheap that really works. The TV output has a little hum. The switch box removes it completely like removing a cable. It needs a make before brake switch as it pops if I forget to turn down the amp. As it was made from scrap I am rather pleased with it. It does more good than harm.
The Quad always sounded great on FM and poor through other sources. Now that is completely changed. Seems the ideal input levels for Quad are knife edge. Get it right and it sounds totally modern and like silly money hi fi. I have a Garrard 401 comming to life. I have been bidding on a Michele Focus arm . No idea if my son won the bid. That and a DL110 should see the LP12 off. I loaned a 401 to a friend. It seems I miss it. The LP12 is almost a familly member. Like familly I have no true understanding of it. I suspect it is far better than I allow myself to believe. Someone said a very professional old stage act who to one who knows is slightly drunk. That seems about right. As in real life it hardly matters. The CD will show the same on alalogue sources so hard to know what is LP12 and what is mastertape. LP12 is a double dose I think?
To explain. Money got tight and I had to use what I had. I always called myself an engineer so put it to the test. Like watching crops grow something like I have heard for silly money became real. The Quad was my kitchen radio with Mission 760's ( now with a Rotel 840 mK1 and Sony STR 3950 inc SW, ). The Quad amp belonged to a heart broken old lady who's husband loved it. She couldn't bare to keep it. I couldn't bare to sell it, it still has his name sticker on it.
I have just bough a NAD 3020 as a general purpose pre and power amp. It cost £15 and needs new capacitors. I have a hunch it will be real high end through these speakers. By that I mean no box sound.
I dare say I will build some 20 to 150 Hz sub-woffers if I find a design that makes sense.
The cost of this project was £50 15 inch units. £45, 12 Lta ( pair, thanks Matt ). £50 wood from Wicks builders merchant. £17 tweeters ( DT 74/8 ) crossed at 6 kHz with first order , they also use stadard EQ at 10 kHz and about 50 % lift. Chokes are mains power devices I had of about 3 mH for the 15 inch. They are 20 A but common mode so probably saturate used this way. They are about 30 VA cores using M6 metal. As I plan this to be active they are not considered part of a final design. The baffles are 50 % 1/2 inch ply and 50 % 1/2 inch MDF. They were bonded together using PVA glue and large water buckets as weights. The differential absorbion means both are bowed towards the plywood about 3/4 of an inch at the centre . I have a hunch that's no bad thing and looks like it was a choice. I stretched two metalic green car paint cans someone left in our workshop to spray the backs. Even that looks arty. The prop is low grade fenching post about 2 x1 1/2 inch sanded with a shed door type hinge. A simple gate hook to make it ridged. The pole stands on face towels as an easy solution to damping. As far as I know no down side to that. The speakers will lay flat in my car with no need to unscrwew anything. Sorry I have no camera working. When I do I will post.
Listening to Riders on the Storm on LP They sound perfect. I suspect mostly what's wrong with them is they tell the truth. 1970's TV is fine. It sounds no worse than usual with unsuspected good moments. It seems the studio sound and atmospheric shots often were different. The latter seem to be added on and of better quality. Our TV cop series the Sweeney has fantastic jazz like music. The bass quality somehow better than most sources. This is weird as the general sound is like a talking yoghurt pot ( two with string made for kids ) . I am told the EQ for 70's TV was done through real TV's . Hence the sound of an off centre drive unit. Sometimes they got it wrong and reality gets in.
System . Linn LP12 Ekos ( first batch ) Denon DL 110. Own design of pre amp, you have no idea how good that pick up sounds when correctly used. My Lyra went back in the box. Now anyone can use the system. Quad 33 / 303 mildly moded. Quad FM 3. Marantz CD67 SE and Flying Calf 20 bit DAC ( seems to be Crystal even down to using the reference design , albeit single rail PSU ). Panasonic DVR ( rather good ). And a Roku box. The CD 67 is very awful, however it is a good transport. The DAC is almost something I like. I have a little switch box and use the highest input level the Quad offers through tape in. This suits CD and line very well. I use DIN and one RCA option. Something very cheap that really works. The TV output has a little hum. The switch box removes it completely like removing a cable. It needs a make before brake switch as it pops if I forget to turn down the amp. As it was made from scrap I am rather pleased with it. It does more good than harm.
The Quad always sounded great on FM and poor through other sources. Now that is completely changed. Seems the ideal input levels for Quad are knife edge. Get it right and it sounds totally modern and like silly money hi fi. I have a Garrard 401 comming to life. I have been bidding on a Michele Focus arm . No idea if my son won the bid. That and a DL110 should see the LP12 off. I loaned a 401 to a friend. It seems I miss it. The LP12 is almost a familly member. Like familly I have no true understanding of it. I suspect it is far better than I allow myself to believe. Someone said a very professional old stage act who to one who knows is slightly drunk. That seems about right. As in real life it hardly matters. The CD will show the same on alalogue sources so hard to know what is LP12 and what is mastertape. LP12 is a double dose I think?
To explain. Money got tight and I had to use what I had. I always called myself an engineer so put it to the test. Like watching crops grow something like I have heard for silly money became real. The Quad was my kitchen radio with Mission 760's ( now with a Rotel 840 mK1 and Sony STR 3950 inc SW, ). The Quad amp belonged to a heart broken old lady who's husband loved it. She couldn't bare to keep it. I couldn't bare to sell it, it still has his name sticker on it.
yup.
Ob's are tough.
Most successful ones (to me) run floppy qts long throw 15s.
Some low pass at 40hz 12db and seem to have some bass.
Think Carver amazing, check out figure 4.
Carver Amazing Loudspeaker (Platinum Edition) Measurements | Stereophile.com
or the visaton "no box"
"In both cases, a second order low-pass network consisting of a series 13 mH steel-laminate coil and a 200 uF shunt capacitor was used to roll off the high frequencies. The measured frequency response is shown below."
The VISATON NoBox BB Loudspeaker Kit Review By Dick Olsher
Hmm............
Beaming on a 12" full range?
Of coarse it's an issue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe a whizzer helps a driver disperse an extra octave.
So a whizzered 12" disperses like a non whizzer 8", or fine up to 2khz anyway.
The sweet spot is 2-3 people wide at 11'.
That works for me fine.
And I like less room reflections, especially for a single speaker.
It lights up the room far far less than a 3-way.
You are right on the beaming of 2 drivers.
I assume it will fail the "sitting down then stand up test".
And the climbing response, it needs a bit of 16khz boost with a 10 band eq.
But I know what I'm getting into.
I'm giving up dispersion for output.
I'm positive a smaller driver will be more accurate.
But I need more output for bass music.
As others have said, a 12" full range is its own thing.
Norman
Ob's are tough.
Most successful ones (to me) run floppy qts long throw 15s.
Some low pass at 40hz 12db and seem to have some bass.
Think Carver amazing, check out figure 4.
Carver Amazing Loudspeaker (Platinum Edition) Measurements | Stereophile.com
or the visaton "no box"
"In both cases, a second order low-pass network consisting of a series 13 mH steel-laminate coil and a 200 uF shunt capacitor was used to roll off the high frequencies. The measured frequency response is shown below."
The VISATON NoBox BB Loudspeaker Kit Review By Dick Olsher
Hmm............
Beaming on a 12" full range?
Of coarse it's an issue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe a whizzer helps a driver disperse an extra octave.
So a whizzered 12" disperses like a non whizzer 8", or fine up to 2khz anyway.
The sweet spot is 2-3 people wide at 11'.
That works for me fine.
And I like less room reflections, especially for a single speaker.
It lights up the room far far less than a 3-way.
You are right on the beaming of 2 drivers.
I assume it will fail the "sitting down then stand up test".
And the climbing response, it needs a bit of 16khz boost with a 10 band eq.
But I know what I'm getting into.
I'm giving up dispersion for output.
I'm positive a smaller driver will be more accurate.
But I need more output for bass music.
As others have said, a 12" full range is its own thing.
Norman
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I can't, Nivana 15's are too expensive.
$550 with free shipping ?
My fanes run $85 each, free shipping usually with orders over $200.
And if you've never ordered before (get a friend to), you can save another 10%.
I wanted to try the seas fa22rcz, but not at $150 each, no way.
On my fane 12" I slid the 30hz and 60hz sliders down on the eq and was amazed at the reduction in overall bass, especially when box is rolling below 100hz.
That's running along side of the subwoofer.
Awesome time with "Woman in Black" blu-ray.
Could have used a bit more bass on Nelly Furtado "Loose" cd, but still fun.
I'm used to distorted double 15" bass compared to ppsl 4x12's.
Nelly Furtado - Loose - Amazon.com Music
Some deep stuff hiding on the cd too.
Norman
$550 with free shipping ?
My fanes run $85 each, free shipping usually with orders over $200.
And if you've never ordered before (get a friend to), you can save another 10%.
I wanted to try the seas fa22rcz, but not at $150 each, no way.
On my fane 12" I slid the 30hz and 60hz sliders down on the eq and was amazed at the reduction in overall bass, especially when box is rolling below 100hz.
That's running along side of the subwoofer.
Awesome time with "Woman in Black" blu-ray.
Could have used a bit more bass on Nelly Furtado "Loose" cd, but still fun.
I'm used to distorted double 15" bass compared to ppsl 4x12's.
Nelly Furtado - Loose - Amazon.com Music
Some deep stuff hiding on the cd too.
Norman
When looking at the Fane graph it looks very narrow. The 12 Lta I use dies at 8 kHz. I cross to the very cheap DT74/8 with only a capacitor at 6 kHz . This is why them and no other I can think of. I give them some boost to add sparkle. I would love to borrow some Fane if someone had some as they would drop right in. If the Fane could solve the fact the 12 Lta hits a brick wall at 10 K would be interesting. I could see myself filtering the Fane a little bit ( 12 kHz 1 st order ? ). I suspect this would be better than what I have.
As I might have said I plan to try my speakers on a NAD 3020. If my sums are right it will work. I designed my passive solutions arround standard tone controls at 100 and 10 kHz. 1 watt is already loud.
