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He kicks the gray, becomes testimonial spokesperson
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Nomore Rushmore; does it have to stay that way??
Hmm, the "zero dealer interest" is a problem, and the reasons you gave probably are big factors. But perhaps that can be overcome? And is it just dealer interest that is the problem? (I'm not saying it isn't... I really don't know); I wonder if there is a chicken-and-egg problem here. Customers see combinations as something rarely made (so suspect good designers know there is something wrong with the idea), while designers get a bad response when they try to launch such a product (and so are reluctant to try again). As I say, I'm only guessing, but I'd love to know why Mr Pass "passed" on the idea after 2004.
I see that the Rushmores were a serious project, 30 years in "gestation" and years in making. Possibly the biggest problem was the $45k (was it?) price tag - probably reasonable for what they were, but restricted the market to the rarefied where people would pay for the best, yet had to make the leap of faith into something unusual. If many designers produced speaker+amplifier combos across most of the price range already, they might have had a warmer reception? But if it was mostly a question of dealers fearing less after-market (etc.) sales, I suspect there are ways around this; afterall, dealers recognise some demand for combined preamp+poweramp equipment is going to happen.
The aims for this are exactly what I was thinking of in my previous post; I imagined it logically should be very popular (perhaps essential for really good results, given the odd effects that can happen between Brand A amplifier and Brand B speaker, with a varying amount of Brand C cable... complications beyond the control of those making the amplifiers or speakers, yet could wreck their reputations if one reviewer's choice goes wrong). Obviously what is wrong with the idea is not a technical catch, but something in the psychology or practicalities or whatever in marketing? It must have been a blow for r Pass, after all that work, and having such a great product. I'd love to know his reaction to the sad lack of interest.
Mark
Hmm, the "zero dealer interest" is a problem, and the reasons you gave probably are big factors. But perhaps that can be overcome? And is it just dealer interest that is the problem? (I'm not saying it isn't... I really don't know); I wonder if there is a chicken-and-egg problem here. Customers see combinations as something rarely made (so suspect good designers know there is something wrong with the idea), while designers get a bad response when they try to launch such a product (and so are reluctant to try again). As I say, I'm only guessing, but I'd love to know why Mr Pass "passed" on the idea after 2004.
I see that the Rushmores were a serious project, 30 years in "gestation" and years in making. Possibly the biggest problem was the $45k (was it?) price tag - probably reasonable for what they were, but restricted the market to the rarefied where people would pay for the best, yet had to make the leap of faith into something unusual. If many designers produced speaker+amplifier combos across most of the price range already, they might have had a warmer reception? But if it was mostly a question of dealers fearing less after-market (etc.) sales, I suspect there are ways around this; afterall, dealers recognise some demand for combined preamp+poweramp equipment is going to happen.
"This unique listening system contains four independent purpose-built low wattage amplification packages plus a Nelson Pass designed four-way active electronic crossover within each loudspeaker. Each driver receives amplification from it’s own carefully tailored amplifier using Pass Labs proprietary circuit topologies. Each amplifier has performance characteristics, which have been optimized to best suit the assigned driver."
The aims for this are exactly what I was thinking of in my previous post; I imagined it logically should be very popular (perhaps essential for really good results, given the odd effects that can happen between Brand A amplifier and Brand B speaker, with a varying amount of Brand C cable... complications beyond the control of those making the amplifiers or speakers, yet could wreck their reputations if one reviewer's choice goes wrong). Obviously what is wrong with the idea is not a technical catch, but something in the psychology or practicalities or whatever in marketing? It must have been a blow for r Pass, after all that work, and having such a great product. I'd love to know his reaction to the sad lack of interest.
Mark
Rushmore
Rushmore was seen as a very viable product in some parts of Asia and Oceania. The caveat being it was a product for people who wished to "only listen to music" not play with equipment.
Their cost was less than say a pair of Wilson Watt Puppies and a pair of high end amplifiers.
In smaller spaces the Rushmore took up quite a bit less floor space than the above mentioned system, which made it popular with the significant other.
The Rushmore was discontinued as a matter of economics. The cabinet constructor in Nevada declined to make more than a couple cabinet runs.
The sheer volume of hardwood laminates and skins, not to mention stone took 100% of a substantial kiln and warehouse during a normal production run of several hundred pieces.
During manufacturing 50% of the stone was lost for various reasons and Nelson rejected 50% of what was supplied for cosmetic reasons.
After all the expense there was nothing do do with the rejected stone except send it to the land fill or break it up to make terrazzo flooring.
Cyclotronguy
Rushmore was seen as a very viable product in some parts of Asia and Oceania. The caveat being it was a product for people who wished to "only listen to music" not play with equipment.
Their cost was less than say a pair of Wilson Watt Puppies and a pair of high end amplifiers.
In smaller spaces the Rushmore took up quite a bit less floor space than the above mentioned system, which made it popular with the significant other.
The Rushmore was discontinued as a matter of economics. The cabinet constructor in Nevada declined to make more than a couple cabinet runs.
The sheer volume of hardwood laminates and skins, not to mention stone took 100% of a substantial kiln and warehouse during a normal production run of several hundred pieces.
During manufacturing 50% of the stone was lost for various reasons and Nelson rejected 50% of what was supplied for cosmetic reasons.
After all the expense there was nothing do do with the rejected stone except send it to the land fill or break it up to make terrazzo flooring.
Cyclotronguy
I am aware of the OEM use, I am also aware that Ravens are no longer in production. I have been happily living with a pair for several years now. I guess there is always something newer and better out there. The part I really lusted after was that beautiful granite face. Certainly a cost no object approach.
Combining speakers and amps
Thanks for those insights!
It would be great if good speakers were available with two options... with or without a matching amplifiers built in. Even better if there was a standard defined for a place in speaker enclosures for amplifiers, which was designed-in from the start, and known not to influence the sound, the appearance, or other problems (like wood warping from the heat). It would probably still require amplifiers to be officially approved as suitable, but that could generate a new market for manufacturers and dealers (it sounds like they have to be on-side from the start), and might release the floodgates for some really good sound where some of the annoying variables are removed!
Mark
Thanks for those insights!
It would be great if good speakers were available with two options... with or without a matching amplifiers built in. Even better if there was a standard defined for a place in speaker enclosures for amplifiers, which was designed-in from the start, and known not to influence the sound, the appearance, or other problems (like wood warping from the heat). It would probably still require amplifiers to be officially approved as suitable, but that could generate a new market for manufacturers and dealers (it sounds like they have to be on-side from the start), and might release the floodgates for some really good sound where some of the annoying variables are removed!
Mark
What would be cool if the amp was modular (at least the front end) like BA series and you could swap front end cards (like a PCI card in your computer) to taylor the sound to your taste.