Hi everyone, my situation it this: my neighbors don't like it when I turn up my music, and I like listening to music loud. Loud music is very enjoyable. People complain that it is too loud and makes their windows vibrate, stuff like that. Of course I turn down the music and not use the speakers when the neighbors are around. Being considerate of others is very important of course.
But what is the point in making big powerful speakers when you can't use them in an urban/suburban environment? I really like these speakers, and don't want to go back to headphones.
I am interested in making a soundproof listening room, but don't know if it could be done. Dampening the walls or filling it with sand won't be enough. What could I do? Radical suggestions are fine, since it seems like the solution would have to be radical to work. Sound dampening doesn't seem so easy based on my research so far. But no headphones, and I don't want to live 50 feet underground in the caves.
But what is the point in making big powerful speakers when you can't use them in an urban/suburban environment? I really like these speakers, and don't want to go back to headphones.
I am interested in making a soundproof listening room, but don't know if it could be done. Dampening the walls or filling it with sand won't be enough. What could I do? Radical suggestions are fine, since it seems like the solution would have to be radical to work. Sound dampening doesn't seem so easy based on my research so far. But no headphones, and I don't want to live 50 feet underground in the caves.
Only problem with this is that you don't want to end up with what is in effect an anechoic chamber. If the walls have cavities, then expanding, insulating foam would be a step forward, and also save on heating / air conditioning bills, if appropriate. Not enough? No. Sounds like you'd need to reconstruct the walls out of solid concrete or an equivalent. which might annoy the neighbours even more.
Exactly how loud are you listening? I mention this purely because anything over 85db in the long term will damage your hearing. You could try to attenuate some of the bass-frequencies a bit with traps etc, but in reality, they have to be VAST before they make a difference at low frequencies.
You might want to think less about the room, and more about the speakers. No, I don't mean swapping to something with 0 bass-output, but the type of speaker itself can have a huge effect on the disturbance, or lack thereof, given to people in the area. 2 types immediately spring to mind. Firstly, the dipole. These reduce the amount of energy compared to monopoles that is expended in activating room modes by around 30% or more. So you can listen at the same volume levels with a 30% or so reduction in unwanted room vibrations.
The other is the line array. Due to the cylindrical wave-front these launch, and the nearfield positioning, they too tend to annoy people a lot less, although that tends to be more in the vertaical than the horizontal domains.
Best
Scott
Exactly how loud are you listening? I mention this purely because anything over 85db in the long term will damage your hearing. You could try to attenuate some of the bass-frequencies a bit with traps etc, but in reality, they have to be VAST before they make a difference at low frequencies.
You might want to think less about the room, and more about the speakers. No, I don't mean swapping to something with 0 bass-output, but the type of speaker itself can have a huge effect on the disturbance, or lack thereof, given to people in the area. 2 types immediately spring to mind. Firstly, the dipole. These reduce the amount of energy compared to monopoles that is expended in activating room modes by around 30% or more. So you can listen at the same volume levels with a 30% or so reduction in unwanted room vibrations.
The other is the line array. Due to the cylindrical wave-front these launch, and the nearfield positioning, they too tend to annoy people a lot less, although that tends to be more in the vertaical than the horizontal domains.
Best
Scott
A friend of mine had much success with polystyrene back plaster board fixed to stud work about 2 inches in front of the walls of his lounge/living area.
He lived in a terraced house where he shared a common wall with his neighbours on both sides. His neighbours only complained when he crancked up his system with the windows open!
He lived in a terraced house where he shared a common wall with his neighbours on both sides. His neighbours only complained when he crancked up his system with the windows open!
If you turn up your system and go outside, is it the bass you hear most of?
Bass needs thick damping because the wavelengths are long. But you could make a useful improvement by putting your speakers up on spikes. Hopefully you may isolate them from directly vibrating your room.
You may also consider reducing the midrange where the ear is most sensitive?
In extremes, you might move to a room that does not adjoin an external wall, or even build a false interior wall with a gap filled with fibreglass (maybe just on one wall?).
Don't give up. Music is too important.
Bass needs thick damping because the wavelengths are long. But you could make a useful improvement by putting your speakers up on spikes. Hopefully you may isolate them from directly vibrating your room.
You may also consider reducing the midrange where the ear is most sensitive?
In extremes, you might move to a room that does not adjoin an external wall, or even build a false interior wall with a gap filled with fibreglass (maybe just on one wall?).
Don't give up. Music is too important.
You can decoupling speakers from the floor. How?
Air spring work really good .
but they are expansive.
Look at Newport for example.
Another radical system is to souspandes the speakers from the ceiling
with elastic chord ( I'm not shure of translate, rubber-chord) and set
an Fs as low as possible , 2-5 Hz can go .
I hope this can help ( sure it works!) .
Cheers,
Inertial
Air spring work really good .
but they are expansive.
Look at Newport for example.
Another radical system is to souspandes the speakers from the ceiling
with elastic chord ( I'm not shure of translate, rubber-chord) and set
an Fs as low as possible , 2-5 Hz can go .
I hope this can help ( sure it works!) .
Cheers,
Inertial
Move? 
The air spring idea is interesting. How about making one out of a bicycle tube inside the base of the speakers? Works well for decoupling equipment.
Have you tried rearranging your placement to minimize room modes? I had an upstairs neighbor who would stomp if I got above a whisper. Moving things around I found a spot that didn't annoy her as easily, and sounded better to boot. Nothing helped with my electric bass. I had to use headphones when she was home. She finally moved and I have an understanding neighbor now. 😀
The air spring idea is interesting. How about making one out of a bicycle tube inside the base of the speakers? Works well for decoupling equipment.
Have you tried rearranging your placement to minimize room modes? I had an upstairs neighbor who would stomp if I got above a whisper. Moving things around I found a spot that didn't annoy her as easily, and sounded better to boot. Nothing helped with my electric bass. I had to use headphones when she was home. She finally moved and I have an understanding neighbor now. 😀
I have the same problem, but in a different way. I live out side of the city limits. My closest neighbor is several hundred feet away. I like to listen to music in the loud way, this is in my shop. I've raised the speakers off the floor using 2X2s. It helped the bass, still sounds good inside but rolls off quickly outside.
The opening of my shop is a two car garage door. Across the drive way there is a brick wall, the side of the house. Certian frequencies reflect off this wall and bounce out for the neighbors. Not much I can do there, so I have to tone it down. In the warmer weather, I have some trees that block the reflected sound, not so in the winter.
I'm now looking at an 8 acre lot that covered with trees, nothing sounds better than Neil Youngs Powder Finger at full blast and I can't do that where I'm at.
The opening of my shop is a two car garage door. Across the drive way there is a brick wall, the side of the house. Certian frequencies reflect off this wall and bounce out for the neighbors. Not much I can do there, so I have to tone it down. In the warmer weather, I have some trees that block the reflected sound, not so in the winter.
I'm now looking at an 8 acre lot that covered with trees, nothing sounds better than Neil Youngs Powder Finger at full blast and I can't do that where I'm at.
Has your room got a big bass resonance that maybe you don't particularly notice but sounds very dominant and one-note to your neighbours? If so then maybe you could equalise the bass end at least in an effort to flatten / minimise this big hump?
Hi Bob,
Yes you can do! I suggest you to search very little bycicle-tubes ,
( to say not more 5-7 " when pressurized) and set 3 of these between
two big MDF triangle 18-20". Some work is need for easy acces to air valves and periodic pump also.
The triangle "sandwitch" is a sort of mobile- base , so you can move it easy without touch the bycicle-tubes and adyust your speakers placement as a normal base.
You will be surprise how much sounds better also !
Not only for your neighbors..... 😉
Cheers,
Inertial
Yes you can do! I suggest you to search very little bycicle-tubes ,
( to say not more 5-7 " when pressurized) and set 3 of these between
two big MDF triangle 18-20". Some work is need for easy acces to air valves and periodic pump also.
The triangle "sandwitch" is a sort of mobile- base , so you can move it easy without touch the bycicle-tubes and adyust your speakers placement as a normal base.
You will be surprise how much sounds better also !
Not only for your neighbors..... 😉
Cheers,
Inertial
Alternative: ganite slab as a base. Cover the bottom of the speake rin sheets of Blu-Tak and stick it onto those.
Hi,
One problem with soundproofing is some people completely confuse it with acoustics.
Most acoustic treatments of rooms for studios etc. have absolutely no effect on soundproofing.
For soundproofing you basically have to build a room within a room,
with the whole structure floating on the original floor, not cheap.
🙂/sreten.
One problem with soundproofing is some people completely confuse it with acoustics.
Most acoustic treatments of rooms for studios etc. have absolutely no effect on soundproofing.
For soundproofing you basically have to build a room within a room,
with the whole structure floating on the original floor, not cheap.
🙂/sreten.
people are recommending too expensive solutions for floor vibration coupling, mcmaster has soft rubber feet, and more expensive industrial vibration solutions. Spikes do not decouple vibrations, maybe they prevent the bottom panel of the speaker from vibrating against the ground.
also browse their noise control products.
just my opinion, I'm a mechE, so I love mcmaster.
also browse their noise control products.
just my opinion, I'm a mechE, so I love mcmaster.
too expansive what?
How much can cost 3 elastic cables?
How much can cost 3 little bicycle tubes?
How much can cost a spartan-clone of a true Newport's air spring?
How much are efficaceous of others "alternative" solutions?
Where are situated system's Frequency resonant of your solutions?
And what is the Q ?
I'm sorry but the solutions are unknowned only in this hi-fi crazy world!
Perdone my affermations, I am only an audio-fanatic .....
Cheers,
Inertial
How much can cost 3 elastic cables?
How much can cost 3 little bicycle tubes?
How much can cost a spartan-clone of a true Newport's air spring?
How much are efficaceous of others "alternative" solutions?
Where are situated system's Frequency resonant of your solutions?
And what is the Q ?
I'm sorry but the solutions are unknowned only in this hi-fi crazy world!
Perdone my affermations, I am only an audio-fanatic .....
Cheers,
Inertial
Effective vibration isolation is a bit more involved than picking isolators rated to carry the weight. Too soft and they collapse and do not isolate, too hard and the resulting resonance is too high to isolate the frequencies of interest. The goal is to create a system resonance low enough that the vibrations are not transmitted
Not knowing what frequencies are the problem or speaker mass, is why I suggested the bike tube adjustable "isolator"
Of course the main problem is probably not directly coupled transmission, but radiated noise. (think one note bass car) The only real solutions to this are lowering the problem modes (placement) and soundproofing.
Not knowing what frequencies are the problem or speaker mass, is why I suggested the bike tube adjustable "isolator"
Of course the main problem is probably not directly coupled transmission, but radiated noise. (think one note bass car) The only real solutions to this are lowering the problem modes (placement) and soundproofing.
Sreten is right.
I once worked in a hifi retail store, for the rooms we had gypsum walls, inner wall and outer wall separated by air. This works very well. Some soft polyurethanefoam under the speaker will help decoupling cabinet vibrations from the floor, but does nothing for the air to floor coupling, better than doing nothing though...
A room within a room is the best solution for soundproofing.
I once worked in a hifi retail store, for the rooms we had gypsum walls, inner wall and outer wall separated by air. This works very well. Some soft polyurethanefoam under the speaker will help decoupling cabinet vibrations from the floor, but does nothing for the air to floor coupling, better than doing nothing though...
A room within a room is the best solution for soundproofing.
Hi
I am not an acoustic expert but a part of my job deals with neighbourhood noise complaint resolution so we run around with $20,000 noise meters and measure against a standard or regulation limits. If the noise is above limits noise makers are asked to reduce the sound levels or it gets legal. For Australian standards which is similar to Europe maybe, permitted noise nuisance levels vary according time of the day and weekends depending on landuse zoning and background noise of the area. So for suburbs typical outside regulation levels are weekdays/Saturday 45 dB(A) 7am - 7pm, 40 dB(A) 7-10pm, 35 dB(A) 10pm -7am, Sunday is like 40 dB 7-10pm all day and same 35dB at night. Adjustments/penalties are made depending on type of noise (music get +10-15dB), annoying characteristics (tonality +5dB, impulsiveness +5dB and modulation +5dB) and whether measurement is done outdoors or indoors (windows open +10dB, closed +15dB). If the noise is audible and contributes to the min allowed level all these adjustments kick in and hey presto you got a problem. 35dB is not much and most living rooms when quiet are about 20-25dB(A), while for sleeping purposes most people need about 30-40dB.
Some simple suggestions to reduce noise are close windows at the noise source end and reduce volume. When acoustic experts get involved they often recommend thicker window glass upgrade from standard 4mm to 6mm and 10mm, or double glazing, all doors and windows sealed, solid core doors, insulation materials that are heavily mass loaded and very thick or sandwiched layers of conventional materials like double 13mm gyrock (plaster board) and acoustic grade fibre insulation to achieve up to 20-30dB(A) reduction. Also another factor is controlling annoying C-weighted bass frequencies.
Before wasting money on the wrong materials perhaps get some one to measure the noise first and quantify the problem, it may not even be above the local standard and your neighbour has no case.
Al.M
I am not an acoustic expert but a part of my job deals with neighbourhood noise complaint resolution so we run around with $20,000 noise meters and measure against a standard or regulation limits. If the noise is above limits noise makers are asked to reduce the sound levels or it gets legal. For Australian standards which is similar to Europe maybe, permitted noise nuisance levels vary according time of the day and weekends depending on landuse zoning and background noise of the area. So for suburbs typical outside regulation levels are weekdays/Saturday 45 dB(A) 7am - 7pm, 40 dB(A) 7-10pm, 35 dB(A) 10pm -7am, Sunday is like 40 dB 7-10pm all day and same 35dB at night. Adjustments/penalties are made depending on type of noise (music get +10-15dB), annoying characteristics (tonality +5dB, impulsiveness +5dB and modulation +5dB) and whether measurement is done outdoors or indoors (windows open +10dB, closed +15dB). If the noise is audible and contributes to the min allowed level all these adjustments kick in and hey presto you got a problem. 35dB is not much and most living rooms when quiet are about 20-25dB(A), while for sleeping purposes most people need about 30-40dB.
Some simple suggestions to reduce noise are close windows at the noise source end and reduce volume. When acoustic experts get involved they often recommend thicker window glass upgrade from standard 4mm to 6mm and 10mm, or double glazing, all doors and windows sealed, solid core doors, insulation materials that are heavily mass loaded and very thick or sandwiched layers of conventional materials like double 13mm gyrock (plaster board) and acoustic grade fibre insulation to achieve up to 20-30dB(A) reduction. Also another factor is controlling annoying C-weighted bass frequencies.
Before wasting money on the wrong materials perhaps get some one to measure the noise first and quantify the problem, it may not even be above the local standard and your neighbour has no case.
Al.M
Hi BobEllis,
You are right obviously, I have simplified too much because my poor english!
You have correct suggested the regulation pressure, but I have emploied bike-tubes from 6-7 years ago and I assicure you that it works!
I know damped harmonic-oscillators quite well, I believe.
A friend in Italy produce some similar devices like the Newport air springs and I have it. ( MOSS air spring)
Works better , no surprise.
But 5-6 feets of elastic cables from the ceiling works better again!
Cheers,
Inertial
You are right obviously, I have simplified too much because my poor english!
You have correct suggested the regulation pressure, but I have emploied bike-tubes from 6-7 years ago and I assicure you that it works!
I know damped harmonic-oscillators quite well, I believe.
A friend in Italy produce some similar devices like the Newport air springs and I have it. ( MOSS air spring)
Works better , no surprise.
But 5-6 feets of elastic cables from the ceiling works better again!
Cheers,
Inertial
no problem inertial. I've been in agreement with you all along.
I wonder where I can get elastic cable to support my 2 80 Kilo subwoofers?
I wonder where I can get elastic cable to support my 2 80 Kilo subwoofers?
Be careful, the one warrant I ever had out for my arrest was directly related to gross noise violations! Seriously!
If there is air flow between the inside and outside, that increases the problem quite a bit. Install EDPM weather stripping around windows and in door frames, if you don't already have a sealing. That helps quite a bit.
If bass is your problem, then look into the decoupling solutions... Bungee cords for your subs would be a unique idea. 80kg isn't much, a lot of people weigh that much! Look into climbing or mountaineering bungee, in fact, some climbing gyms will GIVE you their old bungee that is no longer safe for life preservation, but still plenty strong enough to support a static load.
Then use two good solid lag-type eye bolts, of at least 3/8" diameter screwed into preferably two seperate ceiling joists, and then use carabeiners or quick-links to support the bungee.
It may look weird, but it won't be overly expensive. 😉
peace,
sam
If there is air flow between the inside and outside, that increases the problem quite a bit. Install EDPM weather stripping around windows and in door frames, if you don't already have a sealing. That helps quite a bit.
If bass is your problem, then look into the decoupling solutions... Bungee cords for your subs would be a unique idea. 80kg isn't much, a lot of people weigh that much! Look into climbing or mountaineering bungee, in fact, some climbing gyms will GIVE you their old bungee that is no longer safe for life preservation, but still plenty strong enough to support a static load.
Then use two good solid lag-type eye bolts, of at least 3/8" diameter screwed into preferably two seperate ceiling joists, and then use carabeiners or quick-links to support the bungee.
It may look weird, but it won't be overly expensive. 😉
peace,
sam
Yeah Bob,
You need a good-robust girder on the ceiling!!! 🙂
Good agree confirmed .
Joke apart , some Murano's chandeliers are much more heavy....
If the sub are not columnar MAYBE you can employ one single
little tube-bike in the center, I have used one with a massive amplifier.
Periodically like Pisa-tower but can go!
You need a good-robust girder on the ceiling!!! 🙂
Good agree confirmed .
Joke apart , some Murano's chandeliers are much more heavy....
If the sub are not columnar MAYBE you can employ one single
little tube-bike in the center, I have used one with a massive amplifier.
Periodically like Pisa-tower but can go!
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