Heey folks I hope y'all are doing well in these times 
I've always loved the pounding shaking boxy sound of cheap speakers pushed to their limit. I want to make speakerboxes that give me that experience
But I want to avoid the glaring of a 2kHz cross-over point usually associated with midbass drivers or car audio speakers, when turned way up
I don't really know where to start... All the pages on here are about achieving linear sound, not distorted sound
Anyway here goes
What still puzzles me...
1. What makes for the 'cranked' experience? Is it cone excursion, or is it distortion from the amp being pushed too far? (even order I think?)
2. Do I need a boxy sound for that 'cranked' experience?
What makes for boxy sound, is it just having a box smaller than the woofer's VAS?
Is it then as simple as sticking a woofer in a small box and cranking it?
(I have a dedicated subwoofer so I don't need the bass extension associated with bigger boxes anyway)
3. Should I go for 3-way in order to prevent that upper-midrange sneer?
Stay safe, cheers Raoul
I've always loved the pounding shaking boxy sound of cheap speakers pushed to their limit. I want to make speakerboxes that give me that experience
But I want to avoid the glaring of a 2kHz cross-over point usually associated with midbass drivers or car audio speakers, when turned way up
I don't really know where to start... All the pages on here are about achieving linear sound, not distorted sound
Anyway here goes
What still puzzles me...
1. What makes for the 'cranked' experience? Is it cone excursion, or is it distortion from the amp being pushed too far? (even order I think?)
2. Do I need a boxy sound for that 'cranked' experience?
What makes for boxy sound, is it just having a box smaller than the woofer's VAS?
Is it then as simple as sticking a woofer in a small box and cranking it?
(I have a dedicated subwoofer so I don't need the bass extension associated with bigger boxes anyway)
3. Should I go for 3-way in order to prevent that upper-midrange sneer?
Stay safe, cheers
RaoulGuessing here but thin chipboard for the cabinet and the cheapest paper or plastic cone drivers you can find ?
The distortion your possibly hearing could be cone breakup and non linearaties as the voice coil is pushed outside of its optimal operating range.
Keep in mind this is all purely guess work on my part.
The distortion your possibly hearing could be cone breakup and non linearaties as the voice coil is pushed outside of its optimal operating range.
Keep in mind this is all purely guess work on my part.
It's said to be a characteristic of cone breakup (or something similar) according to the following page:
The Truth About ...
3-way or not, use drivers with straight (and ribbed) cones (vs curvilinear) and cross low enough to avoid the harsh sound, e.g. a 15" crosses at 600-800Hz (2-way) and 300-400Hz (3-way). According to my understanding, it's not going to be possible to fix this harsh sound using EQ, as something non-minimum phase seems to happen when cones begin to break up.
EDIT: However, loud sounds, in my opinion, are a characteristic of very linear systems, not the opposite.
The Truth About ...
3-way or not, use drivers with straight (and ribbed) cones (vs curvilinear) and cross low enough to avoid the harsh sound, e.g. a 15" crosses at 600-800Hz (2-way) and 300-400Hz (3-way). According to my understanding, it's not going to be possible to fix this harsh sound using EQ, as something non-minimum phase seems to happen when cones begin to break up.
EDIT: However, loud sounds, in my opinion, are a characteristic of very linear systems, not the opposite.
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Cheap, high [~ > 1.0] Qt drivers in too small a reflex box driven to the limits of its excursion, which in turn sets up cone breakup/'cry', driven with a cheap amp with too little power and to make matters worse; a basic, 'hard' clipping protection ckt. ensures a suitably horrific noise to the vast majority of ears back decades ago, though much of what I've been exposed to on YouTube in recent years seems to be the norm for the youth of today .
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If you love the pounding shaking boxy sound of cheap speakers pushed to their limit, you don't obviously want a shaky box ! We used to make MDF (or pressed wood) double boxes with about 100 pounds of sand (or ciment) between the two before closing the back of the bigger one ! We used to make acoustic suspension baffles (no vent), I remember having used 15 inches woofer, two middle ranges and four tweeters per boxe. The result was effectively general all around shaking but not the boxes themselves !
Perhaps build the Suzie Q in a smaller, sealed enclosure with 1/2" chipboard or plywood. Looking at the frequency response, it shouldn't have that "glare".
Suzie "Q" | Scan-Speak Discovery compact speaker
Suzie "Q" | Scan-Speak Discovery compact speaker
Don't forget either that the wattage of the speaker must match the amp it's intended to work with. Don't try to drive a 200 W speaker with a 20 W amp, you won't obviously get the optimal results you're craving for ! The reverse situation is also true perhaps with, this time, probably more dramatic and definitive consequences !
+100 on high Q speakers (which have large resonant peaks, give you "chest pounding" boomy sound (because of lack of magnetic damping), driven HARD.
Distortion comes from amplifiers driven hard and no limiters involved so it´s rail smashing distortion baby!!!!
ake cabinets with PA/DJ type woofers, not Hi Fi; and even better with Bass Guitar woofers.
Search Parts Express or US Speakers for that kind of woofers.
All will have high efficiency (>94dB) which will contribute to the head smashing performance , typical Hi Fi *fight* against distortion but pay with lower efficiency (say 86 to 89 dB) for the privilege.
Distortion comes from amplifiers driven hard and no limiters involved so it´s rail smashing distortion baby!!!!
ake cabinets with PA/DJ type woofers, not Hi Fi; and even better with Bass Guitar woofers.
Search Parts Express or US Speakers for that kind of woofers.
All will have high efficiency (>94dB) which will contribute to the head smashing performance , typical Hi Fi *fight* against distortion but pay with lower efficiency (say 86 to 89 dB) for the privilege.
We have our next millionaire speaker designer in our midst! Like the guy that plays Minecraft with his friends as his product, making millions - I'll never understand...
I say step one would be to quantify this "pounding shaking boxy sound". I've recently been introduced to the cumulative audio spectrum, which was used to compare the total frequency content of source material to that reproduced by the speaker. If you do that with a set displaying this sound you like, subtract out the source spectrum, you should end up with a set of characteristic frequencies that appeals to you, as introduced by the speaker doing its "pounding shaking boxy sound" thing.
If you can repeat this process across a number of songs that such speakers really do that well with, you'll begin to see a sonic signature. Now translating that into a reliably reproducible design is the million dollar engineering feat, but I'm sure you'll be able to do it eventually. It could be a unique combination of speaker, wood and geometry that does it. Imagine building something that has that sound, but you cant kill it - whereas the actual cheap speakers always die from the amplifier power, eventually.
Good luck - it's certainly a different line to pursue than what is ordinarily sought here. Significant too, methinks; building a speaker that sounds how you want it to sound, versus one of those "transparent" things that transform electricity into air pressure variations with no added effects at all.
I say step one would be to quantify this "pounding shaking boxy sound". I've recently been introduced to the cumulative audio spectrum, which was used to compare the total frequency content of source material to that reproduced by the speaker. If you do that with a set displaying this sound you like, subtract out the source spectrum, you should end up with a set of characteristic frequencies that appeals to you, as introduced by the speaker doing its "pounding shaking boxy sound" thing.
If you can repeat this process across a number of songs that such speakers really do that well with, you'll begin to see a sonic signature. Now translating that into a reliably reproducible design is the million dollar engineering feat, but I'm sure you'll be able to do it eventually. It could be a unique combination of speaker, wood and geometry that does it. Imagine building something that has that sound, but you cant kill it - whereas the actual cheap speakers always die from the amplifier power, eventually.
Good luck - it's certainly a different line to pursue than what is ordinarily sought here. Significant too, methinks; building a speaker that sounds how you want it to sound, versus one of those "transparent" things that transform electricity into air pressure variations with no added effects at all.
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I would never try to design a speaker that sounded bad... Intentionally. Unless you need to be all analog, I would rather design a capable speaker and tune with DSP. Sensitive speakers, and big cones will get you loud and clean.
With the abilities of DSP these days, there's no reason you can't have a house curve that gives a huge chest slamming sound, without being a bunch of cheap parts and tons of unwanted distortion. I run a pair of 12" car subs with a pair of JBL L5 and a lot of the visceral effect and wow sounds come from the subs and how they are tuned. Just tweaking the 80hz region can make a snare drum or male vocal really move within the mix. I have several different settings I switch between depending on my mood and source. If I ever wanted to have that sound that OP seeks, I'd rather have it on my DSPs speed dial as an alternative tuning option. Best of both worlds IMO.
With the abilities of DSP these days, there's no reason you can't have a house curve that gives a huge chest slamming sound, without being a bunch of cheap parts and tons of unwanted distortion. I run a pair of 12" car subs with a pair of JBL L5 and a lot of the visceral effect and wow sounds come from the subs and how they are tuned. Just tweaking the 80hz region can make a snare drum or male vocal really move within the mix. I have several different settings I switch between depending on my mood and source. If I ever wanted to have that sound that OP seeks, I'd rather have it on my DSPs speed dial as an alternative tuning option. Best of both worlds IMO.
Well, its really not easy to get both that punchy mid bass slam along with the jeans fluttering low end that takes your breath away with one type of LF driver and enclosure covering the whole bottom end. Most of the time you can't have both without a lot of DSP trickery and even then it doesn't always make the kick drum in a really good dance track come through as visceral as it should.
One of the few cabs that could maybe pull it off would be a large rear loaded horn with a 15" driver. You'd likely need the acoustical gain of multple cabs placed close together to get there.
A lot of the cheaper large PA cabs have flimsy thin wall enclosures that resonate and give that extra upper bass reinforcement. A higher Q driver also helps with the extra resonant low end overhang found on a thick synthetic kick drum sound. Alot of the reggae guys love that kind of low end.
I used to be a club DJ back in the 80s and one of the best systems I played through was at a club in the north end of Munich. They had large 4 way setup running 8 x Fostex 2 x 15" front loaded horn bins, 4 x Fostex 2 x 12" front loaded horn mid bass, 4 x Fostex 2" drivers through large wooden bi-radial horns and 4 x Fostex ring radiators. All this was driven by more than a dozen crown macros through a GSA (thats Gary Stewart Audio for you millennials...) custom crossover and front end facing into a 20 x 20 ft dance floor. Bass bins went flat down to 20 hz and you could easily hit north of 145dB from 30 hz on up. Distortion was extremely low and with the right EQ curve it was gentle on your ears even after long periods of exposure. Haven't heard anything close to as good even to this day and it was a 100 % analog signal chain.
One of the few cabs that could maybe pull it off would be a large rear loaded horn with a 15" driver. You'd likely need the acoustical gain of multple cabs placed close together to get there.
A lot of the cheaper large PA cabs have flimsy thin wall enclosures that resonate and give that extra upper bass reinforcement. A higher Q driver also helps with the extra resonant low end overhang found on a thick synthetic kick drum sound. Alot of the reggae guys love that kind of low end.
I used to be a club DJ back in the 80s and one of the best systems I played through was at a club in the north end of Munich. They had large 4 way setup running 8 x Fostex 2 x 15" front loaded horn bins, 4 x Fostex 2 x 12" front loaded horn mid bass, 4 x Fostex 2" drivers through large wooden bi-radial horns and 4 x Fostex ring radiators. All this was driven by more than a dozen crown macros through a GSA (thats Gary Stewart Audio for you millennials...) custom crossover and front end facing into a 20 x 20 ft dance floor. Bass bins went flat down to 20 hz and you could easily hit north of 145dB from 30 hz on up. Distortion was extremely low and with the right EQ curve it was gentle on your ears even after long periods of exposure. Haven't heard anything close to as good even to this day and it was a 100 % analog signal chain.
Not over here at least. They do use back loaded horns (called scoops or hogs), but they use low qts high BL and xmax drivers like their favorite, the Precision Devices PD1850 (all variations), not high qts sloppy drivers. And mostly (almost always) the cabinet is made of double layer 18mm birch ply or at least 21mm birch play single layer. Not thin cardboard cabs. They do like the colouration of the out of phase scoop horn altough, it's almost mandatory here. I don't have such a system, but as oldskool semi-retired reggae dj i played on many of those.
It reminds me in the '80s when I had my first 'stereo'
I used to like the elicopter in 'The Wall' because it was very....pistonic!
And after, the thunderous attack of 'The Happiest Days Of Our Lives', bass note+bass drum produced a clear Toc! on my fabolous Allison Four...
AAAAhhh, those were the times...
( the weak part of those speakers were the tweeters )
I used to like the elicopter in 'The Wall' because it was very....pistonic!
And after, the thunderous attack of 'The Happiest Days Of Our Lives', bass note+bass drum produced a clear Toc! on my fabolous Allison Four...
AAAAhhh, those were the times...
( the weak part of those speakers were the tweeters )
Okay so I guess it's distortion that I want, caused by woofers extending past their xmax i.e. the voice coil moving out of its optimal magnetic field. I don't want the bad kind of distortion so the cones have to be stiff most likely to keep it from flexing. Small stiff box, drive the woofers hard?