Need advice or guidance on full range drivers.

[TheBeautifulTheory]

Hi, I'm new to the forum.

I'm using audio in a car application. Would like to hear recommendations and/or direction for a full range driver, between 3-4 inch in size, 16 ohms and preferably 40-50 Wrms.

Thanks in advance

 

[planet10]

Despite it being a golden age for FR availability there are few that are 16 ohms. Power handling is a pretty irrelevant specification and can rarely be compared brand-to-brand.

I can tell you my personal favorites from the FRs i have heard (quite a few). Fostex FF85wk, Mark Audio Alpair 5.2 & 7.3.

For less money the Mark Audio Pluvia Seven/CHS-70 has the same basic sonic signature as the Alpair7 but is not capable of the same level of small detail (DDR)

dave

 

[TheBeautifulTheory]

I need power handling somewhat specific to that due to the type of amps I'm putting onto all of my drivers. So it's pretty relevant for me. Right now I have 2 Dayton audio nd91-8. This would be a great driver except it's 8 ohm and for what I have planned I'm in need of 16 ohm full range drivers.

 

[ewollowe]

Faital pro might be what you're after? They seem to have a few 16 ohm variants available.

I've seen the faital pro range become quite popular on this forum over the last few years. They have good sensitivity and this one has a maximum power handling of 60 watts but as Planet10 says it's not really always that straight forward? Are you running them full range or rolling off the bass?

FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 4FE32

 

[TheBeautifulTheory]

Roll them as full range. I'll have 2 12s in a 6th order for 20-60hz(possible a little higher) I'll have a 6 8s for 70-7khz range and then 4 morel soft domes will pay 12khz-20khz so the full range are gonna cover that gap. Between let's say about 5k to 13k.

 

[ewollowe]

That sounds like an odd set up but then again I'm afraid I'm not up to speed with car audio at all, this might best be moved over there?

5k to 13k for full rangers seems like a total waste? Why not just use more tweeters?

 

[TheBeautifulTheory]

I will have 2 4 channels that deliver 200Wrms per channel which is why I prefer a driver with at least 40Wrms(it won't be cranked up to max but I obviously wanna keep it on the safe side.

 

[TheBeautifulTheory]

I mean it'll probably play more, I definitely won't have it crossed as that. I don't want the diaphragms of a tweeter moving that slow. I'd prefer full range drivers. That was somewhat of an example realistically I'd probably have them play 1k-17k or so.

 

[TheBeautifulTheory]

It is an odd setup, it's my first actual build after studying get sound reproduction, I'm trying to be able to murder the 20-20khz bandwidth in a car while maintaining warmth and not being shrill.

 

[ewollowe]

I think I have a better idea of your goals now but again outside my area of (lol) "expertise".

In a standard loudspeaker driver placement is critical, using 4" drive units close together would result in some undesirable effects over 4 or 5 khz? Comb filtering etc.

Can you actually hear over 17khz?

I'm curious about what you're doing but you're setting off a fair few alarm bells at the same time 😀

 

[planet10]

I need power handling somewhat specific to that due to the type of amps I'm putting onto all of my drivers.

But the numbers you get on the spec sheet are not very useful. You can find drivers rated at 10w that handle more power than some rated at 50w.

It is also typicallt safer to have too much power than too little.

dave

 

[planet10]

200Wrms per channel

Auto amps? The power specs are more often than not highly exaggerated.

dave

 

[chrisb]

I've posited this before, regardless of the safety cushion of actual effective available power, is a car audio application the safest environment for drivers with the physical attributes of FR units such as particularly the Alpair or Jordan metal cones?

When one reads the phrase "murder the 20-20Khz bandwidth", it's not hard to imagine ( or remember) SPLs that could be very torturous for non-hardened drivers.

As with live music reinforcement / musical instrument stage speakers, I think this is an application where the designed operating conditions and limitations of drivers is ignored at one's peril.

 

[Colin]

Metal cones should be fine in-car. We have a couple of customers in the US who have installed Eikona 2s in-car, one customer specifically for competition use. (He came second but the Eikonas held up OK.)

 

[chrisb]

good to know, Colin - I've just seen and heard some pretty crazy stuff in the car audio world, and would err on the side of extreme - possibly anal - caution

 

[TheBeautifulTheory]

What bells do I set off?

12V auto amps yes. The amp is an Orion xtr 1200.4. Judging from guts it'll probably put out close to that.

 

[ewollowe]

Perhaps the wrong choice of words?

If you could sketch up what you have in mind that might clear up things?

 

[chrisb]

What bells do I set off?

12V auto amps yes. The amp is an Orion xtr 1200.4. Judging from guts it'll probably put out close to that.

As far as wishful thinking on car amps power ratings, there's this:
Mobile Edge Tests The Real World Output of 2 Amplifiers

simply put, it's a lot easier to print a big number on a label, or even stuff a lot of parts inside a box than it is to defy the laws of physics.

Not saying that your particular amp isn't capable of its rated power, but many are not.

 

[planet10]

The amp is an Orion xtr 1200.4.

rated at 200w into 4 ohms. Makes it 50w into 16 ohms, and that is likely inflated. It would probably make 20-50w into 8 ohms FTC.

dave

 

[TheBeautifulTheory]

Boss amps are completely different. My amp is rated at 4800 watts max, that's obviously not would I would go by. This 4 channel is probably the size of a 2.5k class D it's not puny in size whatsoever. It may not put out exactly 200 watts per channel(i think it does) even still it would be close to it I'm thinking. That's why I need 4 16ohm full ranges to wire at 1 ohm.