My GF Likes It....
Hey, I am happy with the SL-1600 and V-15 mk111 for ten bucks, DD cogging or no cogging.
In addition to plenty of cheapy and mid-fi, I also have an SL-10, and a Garrard 401 that will get my attention someday.
Eric, The Not Stupid Enough To Spend A Years Savings On A TT. 😉
Hey, I am happy with the SL-1600 and V-15 mk111 for ten bucks, DD cogging or no cogging.
In addition to plenty of cheapy and mid-fi, I also have an SL-10, and a Garrard 401 that will get my attention someday.
Eric, The Not Stupid Enough To Spend A Years Savings On A TT. 😉
Dave, the V-15 is VERY sensitive to electrical loading.
When it is right, they are not at all bad I reckon.
Eric.
When it is right, they are not at all bad I reckon.
Eric.
WELL WORTH THE ATTENTION
Hi,
What are you waiting for?
One good oldie my friend!
Build a biological environment for it and will cover your ears with heavenly music.
Cheers,😉
Hi,
What are you waiting for?
One good oldie my friend!
Build a biological environment for it and will cover your ears with heavenly music.
Cheers,😉
Re: Re: Need advice on old turntables.
The Kenwood you were referring to, was the Trio L-07D.
<img src=http://www.angelfire.com/music4/audio_visions/gallery/kenwood_l07.jpg>
Yum.
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/triol07dtt.html
Cheers
I disagree. A properly modified and set up SP10 will handily outdo many high end belt drives.planet10 said:
The Kenwood you were referring to, was the Trio L-07D.
<img src=http://www.angelfire.com/music4/audio_visions/gallery/kenwood_l07.jpg>
Yum.
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/triol07dtt.html
Cheers
AS you can see I have am no expert on Turntables.
Now I know somewhat more thanks to you all.
One thing I WANT to point out.
It has already been mentioned.
However good and expensive your TurnTable ever might be
it is the PICKUP that that will produce the sounds.
So a good pickup is of outmost importance for Vinyl Playing.
Also be sure to adjust the pickup correctly!
The force the needle has unto the groove and such things.
I am sure there is other Threads adressing this subject.
Phono RIAA amplifiers has been covered several times.
Last but an essential factor is that you have Vinyl Records.
And that you can enjoy them.
Without them, I am 100% sure nothing else matters.
/halojoy - music lover
Now I know somewhat more thanks to you all.
One thing I WANT to point out.
It has already been mentioned.
However good and expensive your TurnTable ever might be
it is the PICKUP that that will produce the sounds.
So a good pickup is of outmost importance for Vinyl Playing.
Also be sure to adjust the pickup correctly!
The force the needle has unto the groove and such things.
I am sure there is other Threads adressing this subject.
Phono RIAA amplifiers has been covered several times.
Last but an essential factor is that you have Vinyl Records.
And that you can enjoy them.
Without them, I am 100% sure nothing else matters.
/halojoy - music lover
Re: Re: Re: Need advice on old turntables.
Ok i'll bite -- what mods, because a stock one -- properly set-up -- sure doesn't.
That's not the one i was referring too, never saw that one before.
dave
Brett said:
Ok i'll bite -- what mods, because a stock one -- properly set-up -- sure doesn't.
That's not the one i was referring too, never saw that one before.
dave
halojoy said:
Ah but,
a pickup cannot do it's job properly
unless its body is held
perfectly motionless
with respect to the groove it is trying to trace
this is the job of the TT & the arm,
and even a modestly good pickup (ie Grado FTE+)
when allowed to do its job
will handily outperform pickups
orders of magnitude more dear
that aren't so allowed
I sold many an expensive TT with this amazing $20 USD cartridge
(or course to have the user come back to spend more another day)
dave
Incorrect. All the cartridge does is transduce the relative motion between it's body and the groove. If the TT and arm are not doing thier job properly it is merely transducing a distorted signal.halojoy said:
The TT is the nost important piece of the vinyl playback system, followed by the arm, then the cart.
Absolutely: geometry, azimuth, SRA/VTA, tracking force and antiskate. Some of these adjustments are interdependent, so it might take several iterations to get right.
Cheers
dagnabit dave, beat me to it.
I agree about the Grado FTE+, a very good cart for the money, esp in a great rig. I had one as the backup for mt Decca for a long time until I loaned it to my mate Steve who used it in a Merrilled AR (which I also gave him). Never saw it again.
Do you know how the current colour series relaye to the FTE+?
Cheers
I agree about the Grado FTE+, a very good cart for the money, esp in a great rig. I had one as the backup for mt Decca for a long time until I loaned it to my mate Steve who used it in a Merrilled AR (which I also gave him). Never saw it again.
Do you know how the current colour series relaye to the FTE+?
Cheers
I think that confirms that a bad pickup can spoil the whole thingplanet10 said:
as can a bad uninteresting Record.
A modestly good pickup is not bad.
$20 USD is real a bargain.
I would even be prapared to spend $50-100 on a good pickup.
The weakest link always set the limit.
Can be body, turntable, arm, pickup or the Record itself.
/halo - still turning
Brett said:
Is that Oz? A new word for me.
Oh but mine was in "halo" and yours was very complimentary -- and the point cannot be over emphasized.
I don't know that the current line has a direct replacement. With fewer, but higher quality, TT sales i think they have probably just dropped the extreme low end of the line-up. The needle doctor lists a Grado Black at $40 USD. I guess given inflation that would be pretty close. (i have my eye on one of the wooden body ones).
dave
planet10 said:
The Grado green are the best 15% of the Blacks -- probably worth spending the extra $20 on.
dave
Re: Re: Re: Need advice on old turntables.
Brett - sorry to contradict you, but between Planet 10 & myself we've heard or owned the following over the years:
Owned:
ARX,stock arm, cartridges from SHure M75Ed to V15II
Duals from 1210,1214, 1218, 1229, 701, usually Shure M91 series or ADC cartridges
Ariston Audio/SME 3009II/V15III
Kenwood KD500/SME3009/ V15III,Sonus Blue, ADCVLM & XLM
Kenwood KD500/Formula 4 unipivot /Supex900 super MC
Kenwood KD500/Decca Arm/Decca MkV cartridge
(you tell me why this didn't sound great, should have kept the arm/pickup
)
Rega 2/ Lustre arm, Nagoka, Grado & other cartridges
Oracle Delphi, (OK, I'm buggered if I can remember the names of the several arms/cartridges on this one)
Linn Axis/Basik arm/K9 (Audio Technica)
Linn LP12/Lingo/Akito/K9
(Actually virtually every version of LP12 and factory arm except the most recent Cirkus, Trampolin, etc)
Rega P3/RB250/Sumiko Blue Point Special, AudioNote IQII
Somewhere along the line, also ran Grace 707 arms, Dyanvector Ruby MC and several models of Grado pickups
Extensively listened to:
all of the above in different systems,
Mitch Cotter DD table - highly modified Denon Direct drive
Oracle Alexandria
Most consumer models of Denon, Marantz, Technics, Sony, BIC direct and belt drives from mid 70's to late 80's
VPI
Most Thorens from 124 to 165, with stock and numerous aftermarket arms
Garrards ( real Garrards 301, 401 etc) to the changers, Zero100 etc.
I'm sure I've missed a few
With the exception of the long defunct Cotter table, I've yet to hear any direct drive that can sonically match a good belt drive, while the KD500 with a damping mat or platter treatment was pretty decent, the stock arms were nothing great.
There are literally tonnes of still decent sounding used TT out there, you don't even to look at E-bay - start with your local pawn/thrift/repair shops, then check for trade-ins at your hi-fi shop. (Hint, if they don't have a used department, look elsewhere to deal)
For the bucks, a good used Rega 2 with a decent MM (Grado/Goldring, etc) would be hard to beat;
Another sleeper was a model of Technics belt drive (SL23?). Clean the belt, clean & lubricate the bearing, and damp the platter with dynamat , and you'll have decent tunes for cheap bucks.
Brett said:
Brett - sorry to contradict you, but between Planet 10 & myself we've heard or owned the following over the years:
Owned:
ARX,stock arm, cartridges from SHure M75Ed to V15II
Duals from 1210,1214, 1218, 1229, 701, usually Shure M91 series or ADC cartridges
Ariston Audio/SME 3009II/V15III
Kenwood KD500/SME3009/ V15III,Sonus Blue, ADCVLM & XLM
Kenwood KD500/Formula 4 unipivot /Supex900 super MC
Kenwood KD500/Decca Arm/Decca MkV cartridge
(you tell me why this didn't sound great, should have kept the arm/pickup
)Rega 2/ Lustre arm, Nagoka, Grado & other cartridges
Oracle Delphi, (OK, I'm buggered if I can remember the names of the several arms/cartridges on this one)
Linn Axis/Basik arm/K9 (Audio Technica)
Linn LP12/Lingo/Akito/K9
(Actually virtually every version of LP12 and factory arm except the most recent Cirkus, Trampolin, etc)
Rega P3/RB250/Sumiko Blue Point Special, AudioNote IQII
Somewhere along the line, also ran Grace 707 arms, Dyanvector Ruby MC and several models of Grado pickups
Extensively listened to:
all of the above in different systems,
Mitch Cotter DD table - highly modified Denon Direct drive
Oracle Alexandria
Most consumer models of Denon, Marantz, Technics, Sony, BIC direct and belt drives from mid 70's to late 80's
VPI
Most Thorens from 124 to 165, with stock and numerous aftermarket arms
Garrards ( real Garrards 301, 401 etc) to the changers, Zero100 etc.
I'm sure I've missed a few
With the exception of the long defunct Cotter table, I've yet to hear any direct drive that can sonically match a good belt drive, while the KD500 with a damping mat or platter treatment was pretty decent, the stock arms were nothing great.
There are literally tonnes of still decent sounding used TT out there, you don't even to look at E-bay - start with your local pawn/thrift/repair shops, then check for trade-ins at your hi-fi shop. (Hint, if they don't have a used department, look elsewhere to deal)
For the bucks, a good used Rega 2 with a decent MM (Grado/Goldring, etc) would be hard to beat;
Another sleeper was a model of Technics belt drive (SL23?). Clean the belt, clean & lubricate the bearing, and damp the platter with dynamat , and you'll have decent tunes for cheap bucks.
The real story on turntables
Having perused this thread briefly-----
Find yourself a Marantz TT530 on eBay--
It's direct drive AND, I repeat, AND
LINEAR TRACKING!!!
That's the way records were cut........
True listening satisfaction.
Peace
Lee
Having perused this thread briefly-----
Find yourself a Marantz TT530 on eBay--
It's direct drive AND, I repeat, AND
LINEAR TRACKING!!!
That's the way records were cut........
True listening satisfaction.
Peace
Lee
Synergy, kids
One reason why 'tables so easily got a bad rap in the early days of "perfect sound forever" was the dearth of expertise, even in the high priced salons of the day in setting them up.
Manufacturers didn't aid the cause by contradictory instructions or polemic attitudes. One famous maker (still in business) long refuted the importance of VTA adjustment in arm design. "Just use one of my cartridges, and you won't need it" (not a direct quote)
Also interesting were the different tracking alignments(azimuth).
Set up with the manufacturer's protractor, then check with the Denneson, and it'd be out!
Of course with an air-bearing parallel tracking arm this would be unnecessary 😀
Particularly with suspended designs ( Thorens, AR, or notoriously finicky early Oracles and LP12s) correct setup took time and care, but paid off in spades.
Now as then, a high performance (but not necessarily expensive) 'table is a SYSTEM; the parameters of each component must be fully understood and optimized to the compliment of the others.
Brett said:
One reason why 'tables so easily got a bad rap in the early days of "perfect sound forever" was the dearth of expertise, even in the high priced salons of the day in setting them up.
Manufacturers didn't aid the cause by contradictory instructions or polemic attitudes. One famous maker (still in business) long refuted the importance of VTA adjustment in arm design. "Just use one of my cartridges, and you won't need it" (not a direct quote)
Also interesting were the different tracking alignments(azimuth).
Set up with the manufacturer's protractor, then check with the Denneson, and it'd be out!
Of course with an air-bearing parallel tracking arm this would be unnecessary 😀
Particularly with suspended designs ( Thorens, AR, or notoriously finicky early Oracles and LP12s) correct setup took time and care, but paid off in spades.
Now as then, a high performance (but not necessarily expensive) 'table is a SYSTEM; the parameters of each component must be fully understood and optimized to the compliment of the others.
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