Need a replacement for the GTO1214 subwoofer driver.

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#23
#24
I remember my old Infinity perfect 12.1's being almost identical in build to the JBL's (have owned both speakers a long time back) Both brands are Harman International.

The specs look similar except VAS. Might be discontinued but I see them fairly often on Ebay in the UK at least.

Rob.
 
#27
speakrsrfun said:
The Pioneer TS-W1200PRO looks interesting.

Subwoofer Pioneer TS-W1200PRO specifications.

FS is a bit high though and Xmax is a tad short. But BL, efficiency and Q looks workable.

So far the short list is;

Eminence Lab12
Pioneer ts-w1200pro
Precision Devices PD.12SB30
Fane FC-123F01

Still not ideal and seems most will lack extension, but I may be able to get away with a 25HZ highpass.

Hey @The Lord Flashheart, the JL audio may work also, but it's a tad higher in price than what I wanted to spend and you're honestly not getting much for the money you spend with JL.
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Ok I quite agree, JL are spendy but also popular.

So popular that one tends to see them come up second hand at very reasonable prices on places like eBay and local free ads, at least in my neck of the woods. 🙂
 
#28
Well it seems after modeling several drivers in HornResp I've come to a few conclusions.

1) Although the idea of using a prosound driver seems great and for the most part will provide the highest BL's on the market you're also stuck with the other side of the give and take physics fence. With this added efficiency and ability to control cone movement at very high SPL you also give up extension and xmax. I can EQ a pro driver to achieve the extension but will soon run out of Xmax at frequencies below FS that the horn and driver can't support mechanically. So where does that leave me....

2) Car audio subwoofers. Most have QES and QTS much higher than desired for a horn loaded subwoofer. Although they can have higher BL to control heavy cones they lack definition and can sound muddy in a horn loaded situation. They also tend to be more expensive (less bang for your buck) and over-sized due to the car audio worlds obsession with vanity. Some drivers fit the bill but most in this category are far more expensive than I'm willing to spend.

3) Home audio drivers, there are a few drivers within this category that will work, but they also tend to be a tad high in Q and I'm honestly not sure if they are built to withstand horn pressures. Any that I've found that fit the bill are once again much higher than I want to spend. But when it comes to motors and BL, you pay for the big magnetic field.

So where does this leave me, still looking for a 12" driver with Q's between .25 and .45 with a BL above 15, Xmax of 10-15mm and an FS in the mid 20's (so I don't have to EQ).

So far the best simulations have come from the BMS 12S330 (although I can't get it in Canada), B&C 12PS100, the Pioneer TS-W1200PRO (if you can believe the specs), Celestion FTR12-4080DL. But all simulated as somewhat displacement output limited when driven below FS due to limitations of xmax.

So now comes the trade-off, extension and boominess or tight musical bottom end lacking extension. The search continues.
 
#30
I would not include 12PS100. It does not have great excursion capabilities...
As mentioned, Hifonics MXZ 12D2 is interesting middle ground. I will be replacing 12TBX100 with it, exactly for cone excursion capabilities. Now it sits in the paper box...
 
#31
Petter Persson said:
How does BMS 12S305 simulate? It has 11 mm X-max, add 3 mm for 1/3 mag. gap.

How did your driver die? Over-excursion or thermal over-heating? Did you use a high pass filter?
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The BMS 12S305 simulated decently. I'll see if I can get an image up to show the results. First I'll have to find an image host 😉 .

Driver died due to over excursion and mechanical failure of the VC former when slammed off the back plate. There was a 20hz rumble filter active but it seems it wasn't a steep enough slope because 8hz at 600W isn't impossible. As a matter of fact it's quite destructive.
 
#32
Here's what I got with the BMS 12S305.
 

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#35
I remember there being a peak in the response for the JBL in and around 70-75HZ but didn't think it was an artifact of the horn. Every single driver I load into simulation in this horn has a huge peak in this range. I wonder if it's mouth related or something to do with the horn line itself.
 
#36
The peak is positive interference between the front and back sound wave. That is one of the reasons people now days are exploring the compound horn family, it is easier to extend bandwidth while maintaining the efficiency of a horn.

It must have been quite some volume just before the driver got smashed. I've received other reports on similar failures. Those JBL drivers were clearly not designed with over excursion in mind.

I did a simulation with The Ciare and Celestion drivers. They fit equally well. Even better than the original drivers.
 
#37
Petter Persson said:
The peak is positive interference between the front and back sound wave. That is one of the reasons people now days are exploring the compound horn family, it is easier to extend bandwidth while maintaining the efficiency of a horn.

It must have been quite some volume just before the driver got smashed. I've received other reports on similar failures. Those JBL drivers were clearly not designed with over excursion in mind.

I did a simulation with The Ciare and Celestion drivers. They fit equally well. Even better than the original drivers.
Click to expand...

If I had the time and desire I'd build something else a bit smaller since I don't need 20Hz all that often in music. But I don't so I'll just insert another heart into the beast to keep the music living. A compound horn would certainly make for a smaller cabinet but would also require a bit of a design stage and build stage both of which I don't currently have the time for again.

The JBL's served me well and they died as every subwoofer should, in a horrific display of destructive energy that nearly stopped my heart.😉

So far the Celestion FTR12-4080DL, Eminence Lab12, BMS 12S305 (although I can't get BMS in Canada) and even the FANE FC-123F01 look promising.
 
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