Got em at last, the latest Neo 4.5 inch BMR's!
Hiya,
I finally got the delivery from China...What a hassle with imports nowadays, not just import and VAT but EORI register as well...
Anyway I have the latest "Goldielocks" version to compare to my 4 year old Shinhint version.
Initially looks promising with very open rear chassis and nice foam balances on rear of honeycomb cone.
Same Sd (85mm flat diameter) as before, but with front surround rather than rear surround. 112mm square chassis which is only 45mm deep including the roll surround.
I am getting a new pair of cabinets CNC'd, should be ready in about 3 weeks, it will take me that long to prepare the 32 driver ( 16 per cabinet) wiring harness and make the 64 solder joints to the drivers...
I will post some pics of the drivers later this week, cabinets next month.
PM if you guys are still up for a group buy.
Cheers
Derek.
Hiya,
I finally got the delivery from China...What a hassle with imports nowadays, not just import and VAT but EORI register as well...
Anyway I have the latest "Goldielocks" version to compare to my 4 year old Shinhint version.
Initially looks promising with very open rear chassis and nice foam balances on rear of honeycomb cone.
Same Sd (85mm flat diameter) as before, but with front surround rather than rear surround. 112mm square chassis which is only 45mm deep including the roll surround.
I am getting a new pair of cabinets CNC'd, should be ready in about 3 weeks, it will take me that long to prepare the 32 driver ( 16 per cabinet) wiring harness and make the 64 solder joints to the drivers...
I will post some pics of the drivers later this week, cabinets next month.
PM if you guys are still up for a group buy.
Cheers
Derek.
Patents. NXT, Hi Wave, soon to new MBO company.
NXT, now HiWave soon to be new company as per last months " Shares suspended notice " ie another MBO about to take place have always been an IP led company.
They constantly renew, update, adapt and modify their patents ( at great expense) to keep licence value in them, without that they are nowhere as they have never managed to build and sell any finshed products profitably.
Once the next MBO is completed they will be looking to finally make some profit from licence deals, so you can be sure the good patents have plenty of life / value left in them.
Cheers
D.
NXT, now HiWave soon to be new company as per last months " Shares suspended notice " ie another MBO about to take place have always been an IP led company.
They constantly renew, update, adapt and modify their patents ( at great expense) to keep licence value in them, without that they are nowhere as they have never managed to build and sell any finshed products profitably.
Once the next MBO is completed they will be looking to finally make some profit from licence deals, so you can be sure the good patents have plenty of life / value left in them.
Cheers
D.
BMR patents
I havn't read any of their BMR patents, but I know Chris Ellis who is named on one of the original NXT patents from about 5 years ago, its still got plently of life / value in it for sure.
So far no other company has managed to circumvent the patents so maybe "the extra's" are still strong too?
I do one thing for sure the 4.5 Neo magnet BMR is a great driver for on wall line arrays.
The smaller BMR's are got good, ie Cambridge Audio use the crappy little 2 or 3 inch driver and its very low fi.
Cheers
Derek.
I havn't read any of their BMR patents, but I know Chris Ellis who is named on one of the original NXT patents from about 5 years ago, its still got plently of life / value in it for sure.
So far no other company has managed to circumvent the patents so maybe "the extra's" are still strong too?
I do one thing for sure the 4.5 Neo magnet BMR is a great driver for on wall line arrays.
The smaller BMR's are got good, ie Cambridge Audio use the crappy little 2 or 3 inch driver and its very low fi.
Cheers
Derek.
Take any cheap driver, 6 inch ( or smaller) MDF cube and maybe a passive component or two, assembled in China and add 5% for shipping and insurance, all in £10 /$15 landed in UK or USA.
Sell it to a distributor for £20 to £25, he sells to dealers for £40 to £50, they sell it to retail customer for £80 to £100 plus VAT =£ £96 TO £120 per speaker.
In audio minimum commercial margins are 10 fold, usually nearer 20 fold from manufacturer, distributor, dealers then retail customer.
This is why ANY £200 per pair of any commercial manufacturer's loudspeakers sound crap, you are buying £10 to £15 worth of materials and labour...A £200 DIY budget will sound good if done correctly, because you are building something that would retail at over £2,000.
Stupid high end cables usually carry 100 fold margins, DAC's & electronics clad in exessive 50Kg alloy cases also carry " you pay for the price" margins.
Maybe Cambridge Audio will attempt a more upmarket BMR speaker in the future, Naim and Rega have done ok, but the Naim's ( £4K and £6K) are so overpriced they will never sell in any volume.
Cheers
Derek.
Sell it to a distributor for £20 to £25, he sells to dealers for £40 to £50, they sell it to retail customer for £80 to £100 plus VAT =£ £96 TO £120 per speaker.
In audio minimum commercial margins are 10 fold, usually nearer 20 fold from manufacturer, distributor, dealers then retail customer.
This is why ANY £200 per pair of any commercial manufacturer's loudspeakers sound crap, you are buying £10 to £15 worth of materials and labour...A £200 DIY budget will sound good if done correctly, because you are building something that would retail at over £2,000.
Stupid high end cables usually carry 100 fold margins, DAC's & electronics clad in exessive 50Kg alloy cases also carry " you pay for the price" margins.
Maybe Cambridge Audio will attempt a more upmarket BMR speaker in the future, Naim and Rega have done ok, but the Naim's ( £4K and £6K) are so overpriced they will never sell in any volume.
Cheers
Derek.
1.85 meter tall, BMR line array
Hi Thomas James,
Yes they would indeed!!
I am working on a 1.85 meter tall, on-wall line array using 16 4 Ohm BMR's per channel, wired in 4 by 4 to give a 4 Ohm load with a genuine 100dB for 1 watt ( 2.83 volts) sensitivity.
If all goes well I am going to offer DIY Kits, I now have the drivers in stock and the first pair of cabinets will be ready soon.
The attached is an array with just 8 BMR's per channel and it is a great performer.
I have demo'd them to various groups of people and they loved them, I also ran them at last months Bristol HiFi show (on the Sunday) with the AVA Media digital amp being fed from my lap top running JRiver 18 with JPlay.
100% positive feedback, including 2 reviewers, one ( print magazine) requested the first UK review if we go into production...
Re your question about DSP and low end, so far I have tested up to 8 drivers per channel.
For critical listening with two channel music, the 8 drivers / ch need a bit of Eq help from the JRiver Eq, not too much, just a 9KHz notch and then some boost above 12KHz and a few dB boost below 70 Hz. I actually use the parametric Eq the most with just a little bit of graphic Eq, its really great and has no sonic penalty as the JRiver software is already running the music.
For Home Cinema you can just run the BMR's flat, no Eq or tweeking, simply add a sub woofer below 90Hz and the system blends beautifully, speech inteligibilty is fantastic.
Once I have the big 16 driver speakers built up I will post some more pics and results. I have not been this enthusiastic about a driver / speaker since 2004 when I first started using the Manger driver....When used in a line array, the 4.5inch Neo magnet BMR is that good.
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Thomas James,
Yes they would indeed!!
I am working on a 1.85 meter tall, on-wall line array using 16 4 Ohm BMR's per channel, wired in 4 by 4 to give a 4 Ohm load with a genuine 100dB for 1 watt ( 2.83 volts) sensitivity.
If all goes well I am going to offer DIY Kits, I now have the drivers in stock and the first pair of cabinets will be ready soon.
The attached is an array with just 8 BMR's per channel and it is a great performer.
I have demo'd them to various groups of people and they loved them, I also ran them at last months Bristol HiFi show (on the Sunday) with the AVA Media digital amp being fed from my lap top running JRiver 18 with JPlay.
100% positive feedback, including 2 reviewers, one ( print magazine) requested the first UK review if we go into production...
Re your question about DSP and low end, so far I have tested up to 8 drivers per channel.
For critical listening with two channel music, the 8 drivers / ch need a bit of Eq help from the JRiver Eq, not too much, just a 9KHz notch and then some boost above 12KHz and a few dB boost below 70 Hz. I actually use the parametric Eq the most with just a little bit of graphic Eq, its really great and has no sonic penalty as the JRiver software is already running the music.
For Home Cinema you can just run the BMR's flat, no Eq or tweeking, simply add a sub woofer below 90Hz and the system blends beautifully, speech inteligibilty is fantastic.
Once I have the big 16 driver speakers built up I will post some more pics and results. I have not been this enthusiastic about a driver / speaker since 2004 when I first started using the Manger driver....When used in a line array, the 4.5inch Neo magnet BMR is that good.
Cheers
Derek.
Attachments
I have 2 of the 3.5" Hi-Wave BMRs from PE, they sound quite nice to me, perhaps they could be slightly muddled but also sound very clear/lots of depth at the same time. In fact they have a similar sound to a pair of Sony Ericson in-earphones I have.
Just wondering, where do you get the 4.5" units from, and are they Hi-Wave as well?
Just wondering, where do you get the 4.5" units from, and are they Hi-Wave as well?
LA 8 already full range...!
Hi Iperv,
I only use the 4.5 inch ( Sd 60) Neo magnet BMR as the ferrite drivers have a closed in " cuppy sound " in the lower mids.
The LA 16 will be full range and then some...
The LA 8 already is flat to 37Hz, with a -3dB of 35Hz, I have some in room measurements I can email you if you send me your email address.
I have tried to post them here but the system does not like my screen shots!
Both unsmoothed and smoothed measurements were taken at 4 meters in the listening position.
My room has a symmetrical 50Hz suck out and an asymmetrical peak at 103 Hz peak ( 6 dB ) on the right channel. I don’t boost the suck out but I do lower the peaks.
I also correct the 120Hz to 220Hz shelf, this is boundary gain and not present with anechoic measurements.
The last correction is to bring down the 9KHz peak and add a wee bit of boost around 16KHz.
I have almost finished the LA 16 cabinets internal damping and will start the driver wiring on Wed / Thursday...Hope to have sounds by the weekend!
I will make some Kits available soon, details to follow!
Re your question about electrostatics...I like electrostatics but I don’t love them... They are very pretty and correct but, to my ears stats lack slam, dynamics and don’t have that solid " reach out touch " feel about them....IMO stats are detailed but not believable if that makes sense?
The LA arrays are very, very believable!
Hi Iperv,
I only use the 4.5 inch ( Sd 60) Neo magnet BMR as the ferrite drivers have a closed in " cuppy sound " in the lower mids.
The LA 16 will be full range and then some...
The LA 8 already is flat to 37Hz, with a -3dB of 35Hz, I have some in room measurements I can email you if you send me your email address.
I have tried to post them here but the system does not like my screen shots!
Both unsmoothed and smoothed measurements were taken at 4 meters in the listening position.
My room has a symmetrical 50Hz suck out and an asymmetrical peak at 103 Hz peak ( 6 dB ) on the right channel. I don’t boost the suck out but I do lower the peaks.
I also correct the 120Hz to 220Hz shelf, this is boundary gain and not present with anechoic measurements.
The last correction is to bring down the 9KHz peak and add a wee bit of boost around 16KHz.
I have almost finished the LA 16 cabinets internal damping and will start the driver wiring on Wed / Thursday...Hope to have sounds by the weekend!
I will make some Kits available soon, details to follow!
Re your question about electrostatics...I like electrostatics but I don’t love them... They are very pretty and correct but, to my ears stats lack slam, dynamics and don’t have that solid " reach out touch " feel about them....IMO stats are detailed but not believable if that makes sense?
The LA arrays are very, very believable!
Attachments
Line Array Kit prices
I have some pricing info...
BMR 4.5 inch Neo magnet 112mm square chassis, driver prices:
1 to 9 - £ 49 each
10 to 19 - £ 45 each
20 to 49 - £ 39 each
50 plus - £ 35 each.
The LA16 kit £ 2,500. (Drivers only Kit - £ 1,248)
LA 9 Kit price £1,595. (Drivers only £810.)
The speaker kits are actually going to be 90% pre assembled as there is a lot of machinery required to bend the curved ply wood sides and then its a bit tricky to bond it to the inner " skeleton ".
The customer just has to apply all the internal damping material ( very important to get right) and then glue in the baffle.
Then you can install the drivers.
Pics to follow later this week.
Cheers
Derek.
I have some pricing info...
BMR 4.5 inch Neo magnet 112mm square chassis, driver prices:
1 to 9 - £ 49 each
10 to 19 - £ 45 each
20 to 49 - £ 39 each
50 plus - £ 35 each.
The LA16 kit £ 2,500. (Drivers only Kit - £ 1,248)
LA 9 Kit price £1,595. (Drivers only £810.)
The speaker kits are actually going to be 90% pre assembled as there is a lot of machinery required to bend the curved ply wood sides and then its a bit tricky to bond it to the inner " skeleton ".
The customer just has to apply all the internal damping material ( very important to get right) and then glue in the baffle.
Then you can install the drivers.
Pics to follow later this week.
Cheers
Derek.
Very interesting.
Just a little bit more than i aspected, but just because i didn't know which price per unit i had to aspect.
What about listening quality?
We have to wait this weekend?
LA 16 build
Listening tests will be a little way off as I am not allowed to solder in the house and 32 drivers plus wiring harness takes some time and this cold weather is making working in the garage rather difficult...My hands freeze up every 45 minutes, so progress is slow.
Having said that I actually crimp all joints and only use a blob of solder to seal the joint, then cover with Teflon tubing and heat shrink so its way less fumes than traditional solder joints.
I have just bought a couple of reels of 0.8mm and 0.5mm solid core silver plated copper wire which is great to work with and is ( unexplainably?) genuinely a worthwhile improvement over the Cardas multi strand copper.
As far as sound quality goes I don’t want to start gushing about how I think they are the cats pyjama's...Over the next month or two I am going to get a few independent ( musicians and studio guys mostly) listeners in and post their thoughts on a web site which should go live in May.
Also I am looking for a few DIY Forum guys who have their own high end systems as references to come and have a listen... These guys dont miss and hit the wall, they tell it like it is!
Suffice to say I am used to ultra-high end sound and have a what most people would regard as a " Desert Island " system i.e. £30K worth of Manger driver & Precision Devices open baffle speakers / DEQX - custom battery power supply / Fully tricked out TP Buffalo 3 DAC / selection of power amps / custom media PC - battery powered no fans / studio grade software & mics. With that as a reference system I am still excited about the LA speakers.
I would not be spending all this time and money on producing the LA range unless I believed I had a disruptive product range. People use the term
" Game Changer " all too frequently, well I am here to say the LA range is a game changer!
All the best
Derek.
Listening tests will be a little way off as I am not allowed to solder in the house and 32 drivers plus wiring harness takes some time and this cold weather is making working in the garage rather difficult...My hands freeze up every 45 minutes, so progress is slow.
Having said that I actually crimp all joints and only use a blob of solder to seal the joint, then cover with Teflon tubing and heat shrink so its way less fumes than traditional solder joints.
I have just bought a couple of reels of 0.8mm and 0.5mm solid core silver plated copper wire which is great to work with and is ( unexplainably?) genuinely a worthwhile improvement over the Cardas multi strand copper.
As far as sound quality goes I don’t want to start gushing about how I think they are the cats pyjama's...Over the next month or two I am going to get a few independent ( musicians and studio guys mostly) listeners in and post their thoughts on a web site which should go live in May.
Also I am looking for a few DIY Forum guys who have their own high end systems as references to come and have a listen... These guys dont miss and hit the wall, they tell it like it is!
Suffice to say I am used to ultra-high end sound and have a what most people would regard as a " Desert Island " system i.e. £30K worth of Manger driver & Precision Devices open baffle speakers / DEQX - custom battery power supply / Fully tricked out TP Buffalo 3 DAC / selection of power amps / custom media PC - battery powered no fans / studio grade software & mics. With that as a reference system I am still excited about the LA speakers.
I would not be spending all this time and money on producing the LA range unless I believed I had a disruptive product range. People use the term
" Game Changer " all too frequently, well I am here to say the LA range is a game changer!
All the best
Derek.
