It's not doubt that the newer DEQX' are much better than the older versions. However, I still don't consider the HDP-4 as high-end device. Expect the price....
One can build a Hypex DLCP at a fraction of a price and get better quality. Plus expand to 12 channels at a low cost. The DLCP has lacked a great software and FIR filter but it will have that soon.
But the perfect and completely transparent sounding crossover/preamp doesn't exist today.
One can build a Hypex DLCP at a fraction of a price and get better quality. Plus expand to 12 channels at a low cost. The DLCP has lacked a great software and FIR filter but it will have that soon.
But the perfect and completely transparent sounding crossover/preamp doesn't exist today.
That's simply not true. I have had it for a long time and that has never happened.
However, there was a problem in the beginning when loading ned filters fast in a row. Than the software got stuck sometimes. But that has has been fixed a long time ago. It was also unreliable for a while with 12 channels. Something I haven't personally tried but it's also been fixed for what I hear from an owner.
Through the recent years, I have seen a number of alternatives to the DEQX:
- There is the DBX Pro product line, which I have never seen in action, for example, this one looks promising but now it's gone.
- There was someone in Germany who offered modules under the badge "4Audio" - I can't seem to find him anymore.
- There is MiniDSP - these are far from Audiophile quality but are fairly easy to modify.
- JBL offers a room correction system which can act as a 2-way crossover - it seems to offer a very good software that automates the correction process, but then again it's far more expensive than DEQX !
- Ground Sound in Denmark offers a nice looking xover - I worked with their amplifier modules in the past, they are really good - I have no experience with this new product.
- AllDSP offers a very interesting DSP machine, I have no experience with them.
I'm sure there are many more available.
Just to summarize, I have been using and supporting DEQX products for about 10 years, I know the product inside and out - it's not the ultimate audiophile machine as far as its design (signal path too long, power supply not perfect etc), and it's not easy to get the best results out of it, but given the alternatives, it's excellent.
Cheers, Yair
- There is the DBX Pro product line, which I have never seen in action, for example, this one looks promising but now it's gone.
- There was someone in Germany who offered modules under the badge "4Audio" - I can't seem to find him anymore.
- There is MiniDSP - these are far from Audiophile quality but are fairly easy to modify.
- JBL offers a room correction system which can act as a 2-way crossover - it seems to offer a very good software that automates the correction process, but then again it's far more expensive than DEQX !
- Ground Sound in Denmark offers a nice looking xover - I worked with their amplifier modules in the past, they are really good - I have no experience with this new product.
- AllDSP offers a very interesting DSP machine, I have no experience with them.
I'm sure there are many more available.
Just to summarize, I have been using and supporting DEQX products for about 10 years, I know the product inside and out - it's not the ultimate audiophile machine as far as its design (signal path too long, power supply not perfect etc), and it's not easy to get the best results out of it, but given the alternatives, it's excellent.
Cheers, Yair
Looks interesting...those are BMR's right?
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Early BMR or just flat coned bass mid?
Yes , I think so.
They look like an early design of BMR, but could also just be a flat coned bass / mid.
The limited spec suggests very average performance.
76dB sensitivity with max 80 watts power handling = peaks of around 96dB with average continuous output of around 90dB ....
Also £2,700 back in 2004 was a lot of £ for a small low power handling design.
Cheers
Derek.
Yes , I think so.
They look like an early design of BMR, but could also just be a flat coned bass / mid.
The limited spec suggests very average performance.
76dB sensitivity with max 80 watts power handling = peaks of around 96dB with average continuous output of around 90dB ....
Also £2,700 back in 2004 was a lot of £ for a small low power handling design.
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Yair,
That's all good advice from Percival and I agree with him, you should read the two towers thread and then clone that great line array....
I havn't heard his system but I am sure it will sound really great and you can save a lot of $$$$ by using plywood instead of alloy.
Wesayso is a great guy and will help you and share his experience, personally I think his system is currently the very best on the DIY scene.
Although Stig Erik's systems are awesome too!
The measurements Wesayso has posted are the best I have ever seen on this site and are better than 99% of commercial systems.
For a DIY system sound quality is all that counts.
In the commercial world measurements are almost as important as the sound.
In the Pro world total reliability is a big factor.
I really hope someone in the UK builds a two towers line array as I would love to take along my BMR line arrays and compare....
All the best
Derek.
PS I have just taken delivery of a new DEQX HD4....Its mega! The on board DAC's and power supply are now top class.....The unit is great value and can hold its own in any studio environment or domestic system.
thanks for that, Derek And yes, I'd always be willing to help...
Though as some have found out, it's not as easy as slapping together a box with a lot of drivers. A bit more effort goes a long way.
I dont' like the meausurements of it, but would have to measure it properly to be certain of the quality.
I've found it very difficult to communicate with Cotswold. Most of the time, they don't reply.
DEQX....Still king of the hill!
Hi James,
We will continue to develop our own DSP for sure, its just taking a bit longer than originally planned.
The new DEQX did surprise me, its really superb and offers great value for money and is easyto use, reliable and cool running.
Its made us re-examine our own costs and it will be tough to produce a product at a lower price point which out performs the DEQX.
Sure one can spend £10,000 on DAC's or £ 5,000 on an A to D and gain a little bit of performance, but thats not going to sell in the Pro or high end markets.
To beat the existing DEQX one must find the following high quality components for less than the RRP (£3,000 or $4.500) of the DEQX:
(1) 6 channels of DAC
(2)Stereo A to D
(3) Multi connective high quality pre amp
(4) 24 bit / 96KHz DSP crossover & Eq with both FIR and IIR
(5) All relevant interconnects and cables
(6) Rack and space with cooling
I cant buy this lot for under £6,800 ($10,200) and even then getting all the units set up is a pain!
The only real flaw in the DEQX is tha inability to Eq each channel independently when using the room correction, apart from that its great.
Many companies have tried and failed to beat the DEQX.....After years of beta testing Hypex are getting close to finishing their version and Bruno is a digital genius so eventually they will get it right.
There are a few Pro companies waking up to gap in the market and TB on this DIY site is looking good as well.
So later in 2016 we will see some cool new DSP challengers.....Let the games begin!
All the best
Derek.
Hi James,
We will continue to develop our own DSP for sure, its just taking a bit longer than originally planned.
The new DEQX did surprise me, its really superb and offers great value for money and is easyto use, reliable and cool running.
Its made us re-examine our own costs and it will be tough to produce a product at a lower price point which out performs the DEQX.
Sure one can spend £10,000 on DAC's or £ 5,000 on an A to D and gain a little bit of performance, but thats not going to sell in the Pro or high end markets.
To beat the existing DEQX one must find the following high quality components for less than the RRP (£3,000 or $4.500) of the DEQX:
(1) 6 channels of DAC
(2)Stereo A to D
(3) Multi connective high quality pre amp
(4) 24 bit / 96KHz DSP crossover & Eq with both FIR and IIR
(5) All relevant interconnects and cables
(6) Rack and space with cooling
I cant buy this lot for under £6,800 ($10,200) and even then getting all the units set up is a pain!
The only real flaw in the DEQX is tha inability to Eq each channel independently when using the room correction, apart from that its great.
Many companies have tried and failed to beat the DEQX.....After years of beta testing Hypex are getting close to finishing their version and Bruno is a digital genius so eventually they will get it right.
There are a few Pro companies waking up to gap in the market and TB on this DIY site is looking good as well.
So later in 2016 we will see some cool new DSP challengers.....Let the games begin!
All the best
Derek.
DSP relevant on all BMR threads
No worries, I dont want to start a new thread but if anyone else does I will add when I have some news!
I would add that all BMR's need Eq....Even the existing passive speakers commercially available, they all benefit when the passive crossover is replaced by a DSP with Eq.
Anyone starting any BMR project should build in a DSP crossover / Eq to their plans....Even if they cant afford it on day one and need to start with a passive crossover, DSP and Eq is always going to beat passive with BMR's
So in my view DSP is very relevant on any BMR thread.
Cheers
Derek.
No worries, I dont want to start a new thread but if anyone else does I will add when I have some news!
I would add that all BMR's need Eq....Even the existing passive speakers commercially available, they all benefit when the passive crossover is replaced by a DSP with Eq.
Anyone starting any BMR project should build in a DSP crossover / Eq to their plans....Even if they cant afford it on day one and need to start with a passive crossover, DSP and Eq is always going to beat passive with BMR's
So in my view DSP is very relevant on any BMR thread.
Cheers
Derek.
My understanding is MOTU 1248 have 8 times DC coupled outputs, 8 analog inputs plus diverse digital I/O's, and that JRiver will talk 32bit direct to DACs over ASIO. Setup will need a computer too but think then will be very powerfull and flexible.
PC is a problem....
As a multi channel DAC with A to D the Moto is a good value card.....It all depends on the quality of the sound?
JRiver is a great media interface and gets better each year. Its not a dedicated crossover or Eq, but it does do a good job and is easily the best value for money IMO.
The problem is it all needs a computer.....Apart from the cost, its the hassle of cables and never ending compatibility issues with drivers, software, firmware, virus, heat, dust, noise etc that gets to me.
I have abandoned the idea of running a system with a PC / Lap Top / Mac.....
The way ahead is store all digital material on a NAS ( not cloud) and feed it to stable hardware that does need windows or an internet connection....Its the only way to be sure!
Best not talk about this though, its not BMR
Cheers
D.
As a multi channel DAC with A to D the Moto is a good value card.....It all depends on the quality of the sound?
JRiver is a great media interface and gets better each year. Its not a dedicated crossover or Eq, but it does do a good job and is easily the best value for money IMO.
The problem is it all needs a computer.....Apart from the cost, its the hassle of cables and never ending compatibility issues with drivers, software, firmware, virus, heat, dust, noise etc that gets to me.
I have abandoned the idea of running a system with a PC / Lap Top / Mac.....
The way ahead is store all digital material on a NAS ( not cloud) and feed it to stable hardware that does need windows or an internet connection....Its the only way to be sure!
Best not talk about this though, its not BMR
Cheers
D.
While the DEQX might be a great value it's price still puts it out of reach of some of us. But with Derek's comment that all BMR's need EQ it does make me wonder if one could implement the miniDSP units to accomplish this. Certainly Sigfried Linkwitz uses it in his systems and they do sound very very good.
The Hypex DLCP whips the mini dsp 2x8 in terms of sound quality and control. Not the latest and greatest in terms of chips, filters, but zero noise floor, and enough control. Considering the price I think its a bargain.
Software is soon to be updated which should hopefully bring the UI close to minidsp's nice interface.
As Derek stated these require eq, and ideally active room control to really shine, run full range they don't sound great, so the dsp/active development is key to their success and should be considered crucial to the thread, but back to the BMR's.
Software is soon to be updated which should hopefully bring the UI close to minidsp's nice interface.
As Derek stated these require eq, and ideally active room control to really shine, run full range they don't sound great, so the dsp/active development is key to their success and should be considered crucial to the thread, but back to the BMR's.