Some Serious Comments
lUMANAUW,
i think u havent yet able to understand what i illustrated .
Therefore i advise u to do some more research in Transients especially High Voltage Transients effects with Slew rate distortion.
Then only u can grasp the concept.
Regards
lUMANAUW,
i think u havent yet able to understand what i illustrated .
Therefore i advise u to do some more research in Transients especially High Voltage Transients effects with Slew rate distortion.
Then only u can grasp the concept.
Regards
I would compare your kind of amplifiers more with a diesel truck, not a Ferrari 😉
Professional, private, scientific, diy'er, whoever you are, doesn't really change anything: tech data says nothing about how an amplifier sounds.
I don't agree with you that the people who buy PRO audio are more intelligent than the rest of us.
Pro audio is just a whole different ballgame than home audio, and the sound quality of a pro-amplifier (any of those brands you mention) can NEVER compare with even a simple home amplifier.
No matter how high the slew rate 😀
No more than a small home amplifier would have a chance of filling your 18" Hell Woofers with a stadium of havoc.
To go back to the truck analogy, use a truck to move 10 tons of goods, and a Porsche to drive your girlfriend to the cinema. Each car (or amplifier) has it's own use.
Rightly said Lars but I think our good old friend should be given a benefit of doubt for I still have not seen his working designs.
This one beats em all together. Well it appears the PROFESSIONAL OLD HANDS are not much far behind.
Regards
Rahul
Maybe you are right, I dont understand what you mean. I understand it like this :
Since in pro-amps it has to play synthesizer and turntable scratch that is "wow, that is very fast and sharp, wow what a controlled bass there is" in the ear of the audience, than it needs a special amp, the amp that excels than majority of designs talked here. The music played in pro amps are so fast that it will exceeds 20khz (especially in scratch and effect, like you said), where home amps cannot handle slewrate, damping, etc needed for powering pro-environment music.
So, the ones involved in pro amps (like you do) must be subjected to the highest standard in audio reproduction, because of the kind of music it have to produce (they also have to play 1000's of watts). Home amps are easy and low-standarded compared to pro-environment, looking from the kind of music and SPL have tobe reproduced.
If what you said is right, them all amps in the world will be pro amps, right? Ones with higher standard will easily play for lower standard. Why people are stupid enough to pay the same price (or even far higher) for purchasing home audio amp, whose properties are low-standared compared to the same (or cheaper) pro amps?
I also have doubts about what you mean by Pro-Audio (Professional Audio). If I heard the term, first thing it reminds me of Recording Studios. Its different by what you mentioned all this time. When you say Pro-Audio, I think you mean is Discotheque Audio or Party-Audio.
I know some people who is deeply involved in pro-audio. Some of them are recording studio owner. Some are discotheque/stadium audio engineer. And they still buy the expensive home audio gears (compared to pro gears) tobe installed in their home listening room 😀
So, you cannot generalized whose standard is higher, who is lower, in pro audio and home audio.
Excellent. You have write the paper that I can read? Or in what URL should I find it?😀
I have difficulties to understand that syntesizer effect and turntable scratch needs special slew rate tobe reproduced perfectly. Where can I learn topics concering this?
PS : Ampman, if you always use "Very Serious Comment" on every post you make, people who reads it would not consider it serious any longer.
amp_man,
Why are you so predisposed to antagonising and making what could be termed derogatory remarks? It is high time you either changed the way you come across and be a lot more polite AND published atleast one of your least designs for everyone to appreciate your work, if at all.
Why are you so predisposed to antagonising and making what could be termed derogatory remarks? It is high time you either changed the way you come across and be a lot more polite AND published atleast one of your least designs for everyone to appreciate your work, if at all.
Ampman has given a good sugestion
(( As far as contribution is concerned I want to state that the Zeta must
be desined Symmetrically which will improve its slew rate and dynamism
for a pro lander.
Solution is as follows An additional N-channel Driver stage must be used
for positive Rail mosfets to cope the symmetry with negative rail mosfets
as they are already driven by P-channel mosfet.
This addition will Definitly boost its performance in every aspect.
regarding professional standards are concerened by Diyers. ))
By adding the N-channel Driver stage I think the voltage required to drive
the +ve side will be double , and to keep this symmetry in the -ve side a
resistor will have to added in the source of the p-channel driver thus
making the total requirement of drive voltage double , will this be ok ???
Dj Quan ,
In my zeta too , the highs sound harsh , I will also lower the voltage gain
in my amp , today I will try increasing the value of R12 to 3k3 or 4k7 . I
think this will sort out the problem of distortion at near po max at my end .
Please try b putting the preset in the emitters of the pnp input diff pair that will sort out the offset problem at your end !!
Lars,
Sorry to ask the same question again and again , but you overlooked it
again.....
Sometime back I had asked you how to select optimum value of the
drain resistor of T14 but I think you missed that post , could you please
answer that question now ??
(( As far as contribution is concerned I want to state that the Zeta must
be desined Symmetrically which will improve its slew rate and dynamism
for a pro lander.
Solution is as follows An additional N-channel Driver stage must be used
for positive Rail mosfets to cope the symmetry with negative rail mosfets
as they are already driven by P-channel mosfet.
This addition will Definitly boost its performance in every aspect.
regarding professional standards are concerened by Diyers. ))
By adding the N-channel Driver stage I think the voltage required to drive
the +ve side will be double , and to keep this symmetry in the -ve side a
resistor will have to added in the source of the p-channel driver thus
making the total requirement of drive voltage double , will this be ok ???
Dj Quan ,
In my zeta too , the highs sound harsh , I will also lower the voltage gain
in my amp , today I will try increasing the value of R12 to 3k3 or 4k7 . I
think this will sort out the problem of distortion at near po max at my end .
Please try b putting the preset in the emitters of the pnp input diff pair that will sort out the offset problem at your end !!
Lars,
Sorry to ask the same question again and again , but you overlooked it
again.....
Sometime back I had asked you how to select optimum value of the
drain resistor of T14 but I think you missed that post , could you please
answer that question now ??
Statements
Hi Lars,
I can only say to u is that ur not in Pro-Arena business , therefore these type of things are not yet understandable by u.
Simply check any of the gear from Pro-Manufacturers such as QSC, Crown, Crest, Peavey , Roland , then u will understand the Gravity of such things well in a detail.
How Can u comment on Pro-amps and pro-Gear, especially without manufacturing them or building them. Comment only in case of domestic amps not on pro-amps thats my advise to u.
ProFessional gear manufacturing is Not everyone's home brewed Vodka!
Diesel Trucks r Better Than Ferrari's as they can carry lot more Friends & GirlFriends than Ferrari😀
You r a good designer indeed.
I Appriciate it.
Cheers and feel free to be devoid of pro-environment.
Samuel jayaraj
I think u lost ur memory , I had publish several schematics of Bipolar amps last year on this forum. I havent been harsh on anyone on this forum nor i had any enimity with anyone.
"Jararaj ji apke to Jai-jai kar Karni chahiye" for ur implicit deregatory remarks.
LumanuW,
For u a simple Reason ,
A pro-amp has to produce lots of power i.e. 2200W normally and contionously.
To produce such power the amplifier has to produce very high Voltage Swings with magnitudes of sometimes 100VRMS and has to deliver Continous High Currents 40A peak to cater the needs of power hungry paralleled speakers. Therefore the need for high Slewrate is evident so as to reproduce the input signal with increased amplitude that is output in a excellent fast manner.
Hi Lars,
I can only say to u is that ur not in Pro-Arena business , therefore these type of things are not yet understandable by u.
Simply check any of the gear from Pro-Manufacturers such as QSC, Crown, Crest, Peavey , Roland , then u will understand the Gravity of such things well in a detail.
How Can u comment on Pro-amps and pro-Gear, especially without manufacturing them or building them. Comment only in case of domestic amps not on pro-amps thats my advise to u.
ProFessional gear manufacturing is Not everyone's home brewed Vodka!
Diesel Trucks r Better Than Ferrari's as they can carry lot more Friends & GirlFriends than Ferrari😀
You r a good designer indeed.
I Appriciate it.
Cheers and feel free to be devoid of pro-environment.
Samuel jayaraj
I think u lost ur memory , I had publish several schematics of Bipolar amps last year on this forum. I havent been harsh on anyone on this forum nor i had any enimity with anyone.
"Jararaj ji apke to Jai-jai kar Karni chahiye" for ur implicit deregatory remarks.
LumanuW,
For u a simple Reason ,
A pro-amp has to produce lots of power i.e. 2200W normally and contionously.
To produce such power the amplifier has to produce very high Voltage Swings with magnitudes of sometimes 100VRMS and has to deliver Continous High Currents 40A peak to cater the needs of power hungry paralleled speakers. Therefore the need for high Slewrate is evident so as to reproduce the input signal with increased amplitude that is output in a excellent fast manner.
djQUAN said:I didn't.
I just used a lower supply voltage since this is where the amp runs fine. 😀
dj,
Have you still got the Aussie Amplifiers N-channel PDF? In there I think he mentions something about when you go above a certain Vds the MOSFETs behave funny even though it's well within their rating. I can't remember the exact effect, maybe it's what problem you're having?
High slewrate is not always good...
Sorry amp man..
I've built a a very high speed amp (high slewrate too..) but it did'nt give a very good sound,,, mainly in high frequency, too much treble, but it's depend on your speaker too..I think slewrate of 50 V/us is enough for domestic proffesional application..
Sorry amp man..
I've built a a very high speed amp (high slewrate too..) but it did'nt give a very good sound,,, mainly in high frequency, too much treble, but it's depend on your speaker too..I think slewrate of 50 V/us is enough for domestic proffesional application..
High slewrate is not always good...
Sorry amp man..
I've built a a very high speed amp (high slewrate too..) but it did'nt give a very good sound,,, mainly in high frequency, too much treble, but it's depend on your speaker too..I think slewrate of 50 V/us is enough for domestic proffesional application..
Sorry amp man..
I've built a a very high speed amp (high slewrate too..) but it did'nt give a very good sound,,, mainly in high frequency, too much treble, but it's depend on your speaker too..I think slewrate of 50 V/us is enough for domestic proffesional application..
Lars, something to think about: How much good does the source resistors do?
I have the impression that those are good only for BJT's and for current sharing they are more or less worthless. Why? The Vgs is so large compared to realistic values of these resistors.
Do you achieve any proven stability improvement?
My last mosfet amp QRO didn't have any source resistors and worked pretty good.
This topic was thought as something to think about.
I have the impression that those are good only for BJT's and for current sharing they are more or less worthless. Why? The Vgs is so large compared to realistic values of these resistors.
Do you achieve any proven stability improvement?
My last mosfet amp QRO didn't have any source resistors and worked pretty good.
This topic was thought as something to think about.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=516890#post516890
Are you parrareling speakers in pro environment?
I've heard "State of The Art Sound System". Is there anything like "State of The Art of Being Wrong"?
That comes from nature, isn't it. The bigger the voltage rail, with right calculation for everything , automaticly the slewrate will be higher. Unless you make amp without calculation.
Are you parrareling speakers in pro environment?
I've heard "State of The Art Sound System". Is there anything like "State of The Art of Being Wrong"?
reply
LumanauW,
No one makes an amplifier without proper calculations involved.
paralleling the speakers is not a new fantasy, it is practised by every one through out the world.
ThanX again.
lumanauw said:
LumanauW,
No one makes an amplifier without proper calculations involved.
paralleling the speakers is not a new fantasy, it is practised by every one through out the world.
ThanX again.
Feel Good
AH HAH Moderator The Senor
Finally there is atleast something begin to enlighten in ur mind regarding elimination of Source resistors.
Its a good sign of some good designings
Regards
ampman
peranders said:
AH HAH Moderator The Senor
Finally there is atleast something begin to enlighten in ur mind regarding elimination of Source resistors.
Its a good sign of some good designings
Regards
ampman
I don't know either why I have become Senior Moderator becasue I am one of the newest ones and I'm not oldest either...🙂
peranders said:
Check the spelling and you will see that he did not make you senior but possibly Spanish...Señor Moderator.
Yes, it has been done since the invention of audio. I do it sometimes too. But I rarely see people in very serious and very professional pro audio do it. Even tweeters are driven by 1 amp (actively). Subwoofer? You got 20 subwoofers, you will see 20 pro amps. I believe this is more due to technical reasons and safety/failure procedure, not show off or wasting money, looking at the SPL figure they play at. The show must go on even if one of subwoofer burnt out.
Ampman, you will sell more amps if there is no parrareling in your pro environment 😀
"But I rarely see people in very serious and very professional pro audio do it. Even tweeters are driven by 1 amp (actively). "
I have never seen the pros drive only one driver per amp.
They typically use 16 ohm drivers and run the amps at 2 ohms for mids and highs, and 4 ohms for bass.
The old workhorse Clair Bros. S4 had 12 drivers per cabinet, if you want to use 12 channels of amplification per box with 80 boxes in your rig, go right ahead!!!
I have better things to do with my time and money.
I have never seen the pros drive only one driver per amp.
They typically use 16 ohm drivers and run the amps at 2 ohms for mids and highs, and 4 ohms for bass.
The old workhorse Clair Bros. S4 had 12 drivers per cabinet, if you want to use 12 channels of amplification per box with 80 boxes in your rig, go right ahead!!!
I have better things to do with my time and money.
Hi, DJK,
Yes, if you use a factory made cabinet with parrareled drivers, sure you don't want to open the box and put one amp for one driver.😀 I saw a midbass (8x8") and woofer (2x12") in the same box, and they use only one amp to drive it. Mackie, JBL also makes a passive 3way system in one box, I don't want to open the box and put one amp for one driver, I has designed so the input is only one +/- input, why stupid enough to change it? Even ones with excessive money won't do such a thing.
But I have saw a system that use 1 amp for a tweeter, in a well established system. If I'm not mistaken, the tweeter is JBL, it has magnet of ordinary 12" woofer😀 The mid high, midlow (both horns) are also powered separately. The bass (12") and subwoofer (18") also powered one amp for one driver.
You never saw such a system?
Yes, if you use a factory made cabinet with parrareled drivers, sure you don't want to open the box and put one amp for one driver.😀 I saw a midbass (8x8") and woofer (2x12") in the same box, and they use only one amp to drive it. Mackie, JBL also makes a passive 3way system in one box, I don't want to open the box and put one amp for one driver, I has designed so the input is only one +/- input, why stupid enough to change it? Even ones with excessive money won't do such a thing.
But I have saw a system that use 1 amp for a tweeter, in a well established system. If I'm not mistaken, the tweeter is JBL, it has magnet of ordinary 12" woofer😀 The mid high, midlow (both horns) are also powered separately. The bass (12") and subwoofer (18") also powered one amp for one driver.
You never saw such a system?