Hi PuterPro,
I've yet to be impressed by the very inexpensive Ultrasonic Cleaners, but good luck with your unit. Hopefully, it's a gem.
My impression is that it's difficult for the layman to succeed in building a high performance ultrasonic cleaner from components. I haven't found a lot of successful examples of this being done. If it was easy, I suspect more people would be doing how-tos. If you're going to attempt this, why not take a shot with 80kHz transducers, which could arguably be better than 60kHz for the LP application?
In any case, good luck and keep us updated on your progress.
B B
BB-
Thanks for the info, I suspect your right about it being non trivial. First you'd have to get off the existing ones (although there are epoxy dissolvers available, they're, as you'd expect, pretty nasty stuff!). I suspect it would be hard to get it to work between the surfaces.
The transducers ~could~ be welded on too, that would end that.
I agree about not seeing many people trying it, I spent a fair amount of time looking for DIY US projects and basically found nothing (well, one guy on Instructables put two TD's on an aluminum pot) { !!} but no real projects. I'd love to see the pot's interior after a couple uses ...! 
Once you got off the existing TD's I don't think it would be all that hard to get to 60 or 80 KHz. I'd have to see the driver board to see if the final output stage is spec'd to run that high but I'm guessing it would only require some semi-minor changes to the Oscillator on the electrical end of things.
Big show stopper is the TD's cost. I think going 80KHz makes a lot of sense, if you're going to invest the time & $$, go big or go home. My initial look around the Web for 60KHz TD's only found two reasonably priced ones; one was a 20/40/60 Tri Frequency, and the cheaper (60KHz only)
was $85 USD. (Plus some non-trivial shipping from China. SURPRISE!)
That's more than I paid for the unit! Sadly, I'm semi-retired and the income stream isn't what it was so the cost is a huge factor.
I plan on doing a frame with some rubber pads on the contact surfaces to reduce noise at contact points. That will let me have an unchanged unit I could sell on E-Bay when I can convince my Wife to let me upgrade.
'Course, by then all my records could be cleaned ...
Well off to work I go. What the heck are you doing up at 4AM?
That's an UN-Godly hour! And if it's EST ...
Thanks again for the reply, the project, and on behalf of the rest of us, your support to all the group!
Later! PuterPro
Thanks for the info, I suspect your right about it being non trivial. First you'd have to get off the existing ones (although there are epoxy dissolvers available, they're, as you'd expect, pretty nasty stuff!). I suspect it would be hard to get it to work between the surfaces.
The transducers ~could~ be welded on too, that would end that.
I agree about not seeing many people trying it, I spent a fair amount of time looking for DIY US projects and basically found nothing (well, one guy on Instructables put two TD's on an aluminum pot) {
!!} but no real projects. I'd love to see the pot's interior after a couple uses ...! Once you got off the existing TD's I don't think it would be all that hard to get to 60 or 80 KHz. I'd have to see the driver board to see if the final output stage is spec'd to run that high but I'm guessing it would only require some semi-minor changes to the Oscillator on the electrical end of things.
Big show stopper is the TD's cost. I think going 80KHz makes a lot of sense, if you're going to invest the time & $$, go big or go home. My initial look around the Web for 60KHz TD's only found two reasonably priced ones; one was a 20/40/60 Tri Frequency, and the cheaper (60KHz only)
was $85 USD. (Plus some non-trivial shipping from China. SURPRISE!)
That's more than I paid for the unit! Sadly, I'm semi-retired and the income stream isn't what it was so the cost is a huge factor.
I plan on doing a frame with some rubber pads on the contact surfaces to reduce noise at contact points. That will let me have an unchanged unit I could sell on E-Bay when I can convince my Wife to let me upgrade.
'Course, by then all my records could be cleaned ...
Well off to work I go. What the heck are you doing up at 4AM?
That's an UN-Godly hour! And if it's EST ...
Thanks again for the reply, the project, and on behalf of the rest of us, your support to all the group!
Later! PuterPro
Dear ALL -
I forgot to post a link I found for those of you interested in some background on US cleaning. It's a fascinating read, and one of the better explanations of the process I've seen.
They say in the title:
"The following information is taken from the ASM HANDBOOK® Volume 5 : Surface Engineering."
LINK: Ultrasonic Cleaning 101
PuterPro
I forgot to post a link I found for those of you interested in some background on US cleaning. It's a fascinating read, and one of the better explanations of the process I've seen.
They say in the title:
"The following information is taken from the ASM HANDBOOK® Volume 5 : Surface Engineering."
LINK: Ultrasonic Cleaning 101
PuterPro
Elmasonic P60H
Has anyone tried this cleaner:
Elmasonic P60H | Elma Ultrasonic Cleaner | iUltrasonic
Any thoughts on whether having the benefit of both 37khz and 80khz would yield significantly better results than a 60khz unit only? From everything I've gathered reading this thread it seems like this would do the best job of getting both the large and small particles. That said, it is more than twice as expensive as the Sonix IV ST-136 a lot of people have used. Unless there is some significant benefit it doesn't make any sense.
Has anyone tried this cleaner:
Elmasonic P60H | Elma Ultrasonic Cleaner | iUltrasonic
Any thoughts on whether having the benefit of both 37khz and 80khz would yield significantly better results than a 60khz unit only? From everything I've gathered reading this thread it seems like this would do the best job of getting both the large and small particles. That said, it is more than twice as expensive as the Sonix IV ST-136 a lot of people have used. Unless there is some significant benefit it doesn't make any sense.
Elmasonic P60H
Hey CG!
It certainly looks like a nice unit, and 80KHz is an awesome feature. If you read the thread through (no mean feat at 63 current pages!) The higher frequencies are prefered over 40K. Price is a bit high at over $1400 on E-Bay, but that's on my budget.
Member cbachalo discussed this unit on Page 23 of this thread, perhaps he'll chime in here. (Search is your friend - Hint -Hint!)
The link you gave is broken. I just searched for the P60H and found lots of links.
Dual frequency theoretically would be good, if you found stubborn stuff after an 80K run you could try a 37K run. It would be interesting to try that and see if any more dirt came off. Thing is, I think you'd have to be the Guinea pig on this one! LOL! Kinda expensive experiment, eh? I imagine cbachalo has tried some tests.
Having the 37K certainly would make the unit more useful for other things than vinyl ... and the 80KHz is considered the cat's meow, so, all in all a very nice unit if your budget allows.
One thing I ran into on the Elma website was that they units are being copied - "Elma products are counterfeited!" Here's the link:
News: Elma Hans Schmidbauer GmbH & Co. KG
Courtesy of our Chinese friends no doubt!
The couple quick looks I did on Amazon and E-bay the units at the $1400 price range did look legit, but if you go this route ... be careful!
Best of luck, and welcome to the club of Class A perfectionists!
All the Best, PuterPro
PS: Gotta love the Germans. Check out the look on these faces from their logo: All Business, LOL!
Hey CG!
It certainly looks like a nice unit, and 80KHz is an awesome feature. If you read the thread through (no mean feat at 63 current pages!) The higher frequencies are prefered over 40K. Price is a bit high at over $1400 on E-Bay, but that's on my budget.
Member cbachalo discussed this unit on Page 23 of this thread, perhaps he'll chime in here. (Search is your friend - Hint -Hint!
)The link you gave is broken. I just searched for the P60H and found lots of links.
Dual frequency theoretically would be good, if you found stubborn stuff after an 80K run you could try a 37K run. It would be interesting to try that and see if any more dirt came off. Thing is, I think you'd have to be the Guinea pig on this one! LOL! Kinda expensive experiment, eh? I imagine cbachalo has tried some tests.
Having the 37K certainly would make the unit more useful for other things than vinyl ... and the 80KHz is considered the cat's meow, so, all in all a very nice unit if your budget allows.
One thing I ran into on the Elma website was that they units are being copied - "Elma products are counterfeited!" Here's the link:
News: Elma Hans Schmidbauer GmbH & Co. KG
Courtesy of our Chinese friends no doubt!
The couple quick looks I did on Amazon and E-bay the units at the $1400 price range did look legit, but if you go this route ... be careful!
Best of luck, and welcome to the club of Class A perfectionists!
All the Best, PuterPro
PS: Gotta love the Germans. Check out the look on these faces from their logo: All Business, LOL!
What a difference 30KHZ more makes makes! In a previous post I had complained about a so called 50KHZ Chinese US cleaner that ended up being a 30KHZ. I was able to return for a full refund. Bought a 12x13 early version Sonix IV 60 KHZ off of Craigslist. No heater but I will add one to the pan or use an external. No biggie. The difference between a 30 and a 60 is phenomenal. Also I noticed the residue line is much less.
This unit seems pretty cheap.
How many of these would be needed for a DIY tank?
80KHz 60W Ultrasonic Cleaning Transducer
How many of these would be needed for a DIY tank?
80KHz 60W Ultrasonic Cleaning Transducer
Transducers, generator/amplifier, power supply.
You'd probably need 3 of these transducers for a 6 qt tank. A simple rule of thumb is 100 watts per gallon of tank capacity. Or, you can use this formula to calculate wattage required based on tank size:
L x(in) W(in) x. (H -2") /231*100=Avg. Watts Power.
For the typical record cleaner-sized tank, you'll end up with a requirement in the range of 150 to 200 watts, or about 3 60-watt transducers.
Of course, you would also need a Generator designed/tuned to the transducers being used, Power Supply, etc. You also need the proper epoxy and bonding techniques to mount the transducers. This is non-trivial. I concluded that building the actual ultrasonic cleaning mechanism from components is a very tough DIY project to pull off well. It is doubtful a first-timer can match the quality of the better commercial units in a compact, fully enclosed home-made unit.
B B
You'd probably need 3 of these transducers for a 6 qt tank. A simple rule of thumb is 100 watts per gallon of tank capacity. Or, you can use this formula to calculate wattage required based on tank size:
L x(in) W(in) x. (H -2") /231*100=Avg. Watts Power.
For the typical record cleaner-sized tank, you'll end up with a requirement in the range of 150 to 200 watts, or about 3 60-watt transducers.
Of course, you would also need a Generator designed/tuned to the transducers being used, Power Supply, etc. You also need the proper epoxy and bonding techniques to mount the transducers. This is non-trivial. I concluded that building the actual ultrasonic cleaning mechanism from components is a very tough DIY project to pull off well. It is doubtful a first-timer can match the quality of the better commercial units in a compact, fully enclosed home-made unit.
B B
There are plenty of 100KHz transducers on ebay, but cant find any drivers for them.
1pc NEW 60W 100kHz Ultrasonic Piezoelectric Cleaning Transducer Cleaner | eBay
Most of the transducers have a threaded mount. You can actually just bolt them to the bottom of your pan, perhaps with some sealant. From what I have read here, a scratch built diy US cleaner using ebay parts is comparable to the cheap US cleaners, but the expensive ones are way better. Not surprisingly perhaps because the cheap US cleaners use those same parts. If you want to try US cleaning on the cheap - and can be bothered with all the fitting up - it costs about $100 inc the clamp - my one works. One at a time submerged in a flat pan ($10).
martin
1pc NEW 60W 100kHz Ultrasonic Piezoelectric Cleaning Transducer Cleaner | eBay
Most of the transducers have a threaded mount. You can actually just bolt them to the bottom of your pan, perhaps with some sealant. From what I have read here, a scratch built diy US cleaner using ebay parts is comparable to the cheap US cleaners, but the expensive ones are way better. Not surprisingly perhaps because the cheap US cleaners use those same parts. If you want to try US cleaning on the cheap - and can be bothered with all the fitting up - it costs about $100 inc the clamp - my one works. One at a time submerged in a flat pan ($10).
martin
Are folks doing a combo of UC and then a rinse with RCM? I'm still considering an RCM and adding an UC later. I have the GEM DANDY cleaner now (used to own Nitty Gritty).
When using UC with just ultra-pure water is anyone doing a rinse? Are the records drying with slow spin for the most part w/o using PhotoFlo?
I'm still trying to find someone to build an UC for me, if anyone is interested. I'm overseas and don't have access to the parts on the list.
Heater
yes, I believe my unit has a silicone heater, attached to the side wall of the tank. Not sure of the specs though. It's probably in the 100 watt range.
Cheers,
B B
yes, I believe my unit has a silicone heater, attached to the side wall of the tank. Not sure of the specs though. It's probably in the 100 watt range.
Cheers,
B B
I have literally EVERY other part for BBFTX's ver 2 cleaner... but, for the life of me, i can't source out a bearing to fit the 9/32" shaft.
I tried the part numbers and such that are cited in his parts list, but they are out of stock.
Does anyone else have an online source ( or, extra i could buy from you?)
Thanks!
I tried the part numbers and such that are cited in his parts list, but they are out of stock.
Does anyone else have an online source ( or, extra i could buy from you?)
Thanks!
Hi Magnet,
Do you need just the bearing --- I'm assuming you have the bearing housing? I might have another one of the bronze bearings floating around.
B B
New commercial variations appear...
Kuzma (Franck Kuzma) of Slovenia debuted his prototype of an US setup that looks like it could've been inspired by this thread. It was shown in munich at the hi end show last week.
If you zoom in on the info sheet it reveals the idea to just sell the carriage with motor and spindles. The user supplies their own US cleaning machine - he goes on to recommend 40 kHz, heater, 20-25 minute bath, etc. A blog cited a price of £800.
It looks like two spindles are used to have one set drying balanced on a base while another cleans. This setup concept is all very similar to the V8 Machine marketed in the states.
Klaudio also showed their mechanized LP changer attachment for their automatic machine.
What price convenience? $5000 US.
Cheers
Kuzma (Franck Kuzma) of Slovenia debuted his prototype of an US setup that looks like it could've been inspired by this thread. It was shown in munich at the hi end show last week.
If you zoom in on the info sheet it reveals the idea to just sell the carriage with motor and spindles. The user supplies their own US cleaning machine - he goes on to recommend 40 kHz, heater, 20-25 minute bath, etc. A blog cited a price of £800.
It looks like two spindles are used to have one set drying balanced on a base while another cleans. This setup concept is all very similar to the V8 Machine marketed in the states.
Klaudio also showed their mechanized LP changer attachment for their automatic machine.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
What price convenience? $5000 US.
Cheers
The Klaudio changer in action
KLAudio's Peter Cheon - YouTube
Courtesy of Michael Fremer's go pro cam
KLAudio's Peter Cheon - YouTube
Courtesy of Michael Fremer's go pro cam