if you just want to continue blowing up cheap speakers...
just buy them at goodwill and other thrift oriented retailers
and hit up garage sales, etc for screaming deals...
you may luck out and end up with some very desirable kit...
so do some research and see if it's a wise move to feed
you found treasures extreme low frequencies....
sometimes those goodwill finds are worth real $$$
just buy them at goodwill and other thrift oriented retailers
and hit up garage sales, etc for screaming deals...
you may luck out and end up with some very desirable kit...
so do some research and see if it's a wise move to feed
you found treasures extreme low frequencies....
sometimes those goodwill finds are worth real $$$
How much were these paradigms worth, how sad should I feel about nuclearing them?
I'd like to not blow them up, but I need to know what capacitors/resistors to put on the speaker lines not to. One never knows what hz one will be putting out when jamming w/ friends.
I got the infinities and the paradigms from a tag sale. 5 USD per speaker.
But tag sales only come around 2wice a year.
I'd like to not blow them up, but I need to know what capacitors/resistors to put on the speaker lines not to. One never knows what hz one will be putting out when jamming w/ friends.
I got the infinities and the paradigms from a tag sale. 5 USD per speaker.
But tag sales only come around 2wice a year.
4 Hertz is not sound...
...it's wind. 😉
Sorry to hear about the mishap but at least it's a cheap fix. Everyone else has told you pretty much what you need to know. Good luck with the fix.
...it's wind. 😉
Sorry to hear about the mishap but at least it's a cheap fix. Everyone else has told you pretty much what you need to know. Good luck with the fix.
I'm new at this though, what caps do I need inline of the speakers to protect them, where do I get them? What cheap cones can I replace the busted cones w? (and the 1 tweeter that's also busted, guess it was trying to bass out too 😛)
If you have a pair of blown woofers, one blown tweeter and to do it correctly requires a new crossover--and you'll have to find the exact tweeter to fix it properly. Then it is time to "take stock" with what you have and the cost it takes to fix it. At least you're only out 10 bucks--my mishap in the past nuked a 15" Infinity woofer so 10 bucks is a cheap lesson.
I'd wash my hands of the Paradigms and get some speakers that can withstand more bass
The Paradigms are generally around $500 back in the 90's, they are (were) good speakers but not made for deep bass in any shape or form. Your subwoofers most likely have filtering in the amplifier to prevent destroying the woofer from bass that is too low to reproduce.
The reason you blew the tweeter is caused by massive clipping of the amplifier--it will put out a lot of noise when severely clipping which gets passed to the tweeter and it dies. The way to prevent blowing tweeters is don't clip amplifiers and learn what distortion sounds like--if you hear distortion turn down the volume. Using amplifiers that have clip lights on them as a warning is also a good idea.
That 18" thing is a PA woofer--it is rated for 40Hz to 300Hz and is not made for anything below that. It is built to be loud but it can't go low.
If it was me, I'd write off any 4 or 8 Hz "notes" and be happy if I could get 16Hz in any form. There is a reason those 8Hz pipes are 32 feet tall and around 2 feet in diameter.
I'd do some more reading on audio, check out Hoffman's Iron Law to start. Learn how subwoofers work and the basics on audio. Those huge PA systems are huge not to look impressive because that is the game. Remember that Bass Pig has a huge system but it "only" goes down to 10Hz. That is TEN 18" woofers and 15,000 watts of power...
For now, run whatever speakers you have through a crossover and the subs can do the low end. Do some more reading, figure out how it works and figure out how low/loud and big you can go.
What caps should I get to put on the speaker lines?
Why were paradigms 500 dollars, they suck. Also there's no way I could have heard any distortion given the fact that I had the software pedal-rack making the guitar sound distroted, overdriven, and staticy: distortion was the sound I was going for. It was like playing a semi truck.
I don't understand why a piece of plastic or paper plus a magnet plus a coil is so expensive. Drivers should be 10 dollars, they are very simple things. The know how to build them is common knowlege.
Is it just that the market for speakers is too small?
Why can't the 18" go low? I totally do not understand that? My 12 goes down to 20hz and peeps reviewed the 18 and said it was great for bass. Yes it's starting upper cutoff (where it kicks in) can be set as low as 40hz on the dial, but why couldn't it go lower?
If I closed off the ports on that would it go low without prob?
Now for 16hz: a 1/4th wavelenght pipe is 17.5 feet or so, which I could fit in the room length wise.
How are said one-note-wonder woofers made? Is it just a driver at the end of the pipe and maybe stuff the pipe with absorbant stuff? Simple as that, and the pipe as long as 1/4th of whatever HZ you're looking to be good for?
D-Jamz ( Seismic Audio Tremor Review 3 ) - YouTube
18" Powered Subwoofer Bass Cabinet - 500 Watts RMS | Powered 18 Inch Sub Cab | Powered 18" sub woofer | Powered 18 sub | Power
It's the dial that let's you set it to only kick in at 40hz and below, it doesn't say it has a HPF at 40hz. I think. I can't find the spec of what the lowest that should be sent through is. I would like to set a HPF for 20hz or so, dunno how, no one will give me links to where I should get caps or anything.
"
LPF (Low Pass Filter) - 40Hz - 300Hz"
This amazing Powered 18 inch Pro Audio Subwoofer Cabinet delivers the low end sounds loud and clear with a 18 inch woofer and 500 watts RMS. It doesn't matter if you are doing a DJ gig, a wedding, a church event, or a club gig, these subwoofers will deliver the deep bottom end you want! Great quality powered subs are very hard to find, especially at a decent price. The Seismic Audio brand was designed to make the professional musician, as well as the musician low on cash, sound great. With your purchase, you will receive a Powered 18" Subwoofer Cabinet pictured and described above. So, put it in your cart today and get ready for years of trouble-free, crystal clear sound!
Subwoofer - 18"
500 Watts RMS
Why were paradigms 500 dollars, they suck. Also there's no way I could have heard any distortion given the fact that I had the software pedal-rack making the guitar sound distroted, overdriven, and staticy: distortion was the sound I was going for. It was like playing a semi truck.
I don't understand why a piece of plastic or paper plus a magnet plus a coil is so expensive. Drivers should be 10 dollars, they are very simple things. The know how to build them is common knowlege.
Is it just that the market for speakers is too small?
Why can't the 18" go low? I totally do not understand that? My 12 goes down to 20hz and peeps reviewed the 18 and said it was great for bass. Yes it's starting upper cutoff (where it kicks in) can be set as low as 40hz on the dial, but why couldn't it go lower?
If I closed off the ports on that would it go low without prob?
Now for 16hz: a 1/4th wavelenght pipe is 17.5 feet or so, which I could fit in the room length wise.
How are said one-note-wonder woofers made? Is it just a driver at the end of the pipe and maybe stuff the pipe with absorbant stuff? Simple as that, and the pipe as long as 1/4th of whatever HZ you're looking to be good for?
D-Jamz ( Seismic Audio Tremor Review 3 ) - YouTube
18" Powered Subwoofer Bass Cabinet - 500 Watts RMS | Powered 18 Inch Sub Cab | Powered 18" sub woofer | Powered 18 sub | Power
It's the dial that let's you set it to only kick in at 40hz and below, it doesn't say it has a HPF at 40hz. I think. I can't find the spec of what the lowest that should be sent through is. I would like to set a HPF for 20hz or so, dunno how, no one will give me links to where I should get caps or anything.
"
LPF (Low Pass Filter) - 40Hz - 300Hz"
This amazing Powered 18 inch Pro Audio Subwoofer Cabinet delivers the low end sounds loud and clear with a 18 inch woofer and 500 watts RMS. It doesn't matter if you are doing a DJ gig, a wedding, a church event, or a club gig, these subwoofers will deliver the deep bottom end you want! Great quality powered subs are very hard to find, especially at a decent price. The Seismic Audio brand was designed to make the professional musician, as well as the musician low on cash, sound great. With your purchase, you will receive a Powered 18" Subwoofer Cabinet pictured and described above. So, put it in your cart today and get ready for years of trouble-free, crystal clear sound!
Subwoofer - 18"
- 90 oz magnet
- 3" Voice Coil
500 Watts RMS
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Use a crossover calculator to find out.
Did you buy them from some guys in a white van parked in front of a circuit city in he 90s?
Why are you using "hiFi" speakers for live music? Get or build yourself a decent PA rig for this. Traditional HiFi gear does not have the dynamic reach or transient response to deal with live jarbled guitar.
There are lots of $10 drivers out there, and some of them aren't actually all that bad. However, most drivers in this price point have very little along the lines of technology to minimize distortion or have flexible box design options. The trick to paying MORE than $10 per driver is to weigh the benefits of the drivers and cost points and decide what drivers represent good value for your desires/needs. $10 won't even buy enough raw material to make some medium to larger size speakers, have you seen the price of copper lately? Just because the arrangement of materials to make a speaker is well known does not mean there isn't room for improvement at significant R&D costs.
No I think it's that the concept of material and R&D costs in your head are based on the idea that everything is a chinese replica these days.
Some 18" setups go low, some go loud, it's a tradeoff and depends on box size, driver characteristics, and tuning. If you are serious about sub-20hz stuff, consider 21" and/or 24" driver sizes. They are out there.
Closed boxes will provide driver loading right down to 1hz and below. Whether or not you can achieve any useful output below 20hz depends on displacement capabilities.
Any box and driver relationship resulting in a very high peak in sensitivity and maximum output centered around a narrow band of frequency in the bass region can be considered a "1-note-wonder." Generally they achieve their "wonder" somewhere in the 40-120hz range depending on box size and driver characteristics. Don't bother thinking you're going to build a "wonder" at 8hz. There's no free lunch down there. Such "wonders" can be the result of high Qts drivers, or unusual bass reflex or bandpass designs that purposely tune above the driver Fs and/or are over sized.
Usually you have to buy into pretty nice PA gear before they start properly revealing where the "bottom end" loading of the driver drops out and you have to HPF it. Based on a quick look, I'd be very surprised if that sub were useful below ~30-40hz. The amp they put on it may have a LPF that goes as low as 40hz, but that doesn't automatically mean that the sub has a ton of capability below 40hz.
Eric
I looked up a review on the 1993 5se MkII
The guy paid $500 for the pair 19 years ago and really loves the sound of them. Granted, most people will use them for what they are designed to do, play music in the home.
Are there any speakers that can be run 3 octaves below their tuned frequency with test tones, throw in guitar distortion and massive clipping from an amplifier?
Survey sez.... no.
A musician that spent thousands on instruments and practices for years generally won't buy cheap PA gear...the Sonic Thunder (Pyle and all the junk brands) those are for people that play music through them . Generally speaking you'll see a DJ using Gemini but not a band. Playing pre-recorded music is "safer" than live music since a CD/MP3 has a standard range they operate.
Live music is horrific to speaker drivers so such devices like brick wall filters set at what the woofers can handle, limiters to prevent over driving the speakers, compression to limit clipping, locking control panels to keep idiots from changing the settings, variable speed fans to cool amplifiers and some speaker have auto-resetting breakers on the tweeter horns.
Take a $50K club sound system, remove the protection and hand it to a DJ with a special mix. 15 minutes later the woofers are blown out, the amps have either overheated or blown up, the tweeters are fried and the EQ has the 20Hz band pushed to +15dB. What a piece of !@#$! system, it can't handle Bass I Love You at 130dB! My buddies Gansta Special in his Civic has only two 15's and they can do it.
Eventually there will be lasers firing through the vented pole piece on subwoofers to determine how far they are moving to limit the amplifer power to keep them within spec. Another sensor can read voice coil temperature to prevent overdriving the speaker when operating with too much power input and turn it down.
Maybe then a 8 Hz subwoofer will be built that can handle operating so low. It would work but then some moron would sue them when his ceiling fell on him from too much low frequency energy. There is a reason there are no high output infrasonic subwoofers available on the consumer market. They will damage buildings and blow out windows. It is not the idiots fault that has 4 of them in a small room--it is the manufacturer's fault for building something "dangerous".
The DIY crowd can design and build an 8 Hz subwoofer with enough output to cause structural failure in a house. Generally speaking that won't happen because the knowledge required along with the skill of building such a monster, usually means the person understands the science of what he is doing.
After all, it won't be too hard to find multiple woofers with an Fs of 16Hz or lower--just wonder how big the BiB enclosure will be? 😱
The guy paid $500 for the pair 19 years ago and really loves the sound of them. Granted, most people will use them for what they are designed to do, play music in the home.
Are there any speakers that can be run 3 octaves below their tuned frequency with test tones, throw in guitar distortion and massive clipping from an amplifier?
Survey sez.... no.
A musician that spent thousands on instruments and practices for years generally won't buy cheap PA gear...the Sonic Thunder (Pyle and all the junk brands) those are for people that play music through them . Generally speaking you'll see a DJ using Gemini but not a band. Playing pre-recorded music is "safer" than live music since a CD/MP3 has a standard range they operate.
Live music is horrific to speaker drivers so such devices like brick wall filters set at what the woofers can handle, limiters to prevent over driving the speakers, compression to limit clipping, locking control panels to keep idiots from changing the settings, variable speed fans to cool amplifiers and some speaker have auto-resetting breakers on the tweeter horns.
Take a $50K club sound system, remove the protection and hand it to a DJ with a special mix. 15 minutes later the woofers are blown out, the amps have either overheated or blown up, the tweeters are fried and the EQ has the 20Hz band pushed to +15dB. What a piece of !@#$! system, it can't handle Bass I Love You at 130dB! My buddies Gansta Special in his Civic has only two 15's and they can do it.
Eventually there will be lasers firing through the vented pole piece on subwoofers to determine how far they are moving to limit the amplifer power to keep them within spec. Another sensor can read voice coil temperature to prevent overdriving the speaker when operating with too much power input and turn it down.
Maybe then a 8 Hz subwoofer will be built that can handle operating so low. It would work but then some moron would sue them when his ceiling fell on him from too much low frequency energy. There is a reason there are no high output infrasonic subwoofers available on the consumer market. They will damage buildings and blow out windows. It is not the idiots fault that has 4 of them in a small room--it is the manufacturer's fault for building something "dangerous".
The DIY crowd can design and build an 8 Hz subwoofer with enough output to cause structural failure in a house. Generally speaking that won't happen because the knowledge required along with the skill of building such a monster, usually means the person understands the science of what he is doing.
After all, it won't be too hard to find multiple woofers with an Fs of 16Hz or lower--just wonder how big the BiB enclosure will be? 😱
I payed 10 dollars and blew them.
What does he think of that?
Why won't anyone tell me what things I should put on the lines to protect them? I need a link, to purchase.
So DJs are hard on their speakers with their custom mixes, but they rate this 18 inch well, so does that mean it's
Yes I am thinking "chinese knockoff" for everything because if I had to choose between working chinese knockoff that's cheap and working american brand of similar use, I'd go with the chinese knockoff: They've been making things out of paper since forever.
Can I get 10 dollar drivers for these boxes anywhere?
If the tremor 18 cone can only go down to 40hz why is the dj guy saying it has great bass?
What does he think of that?
Why won't anyone tell me what things I should put on the lines to protect them? I need a link, to purchase.
So DJs are hard on their speakers with their custom mixes, but they rate this 18 inch well, so does that mean it's
Yes I am thinking "chinese knockoff" for everything because if I had to choose between working chinese knockoff that's cheap and working american brand of similar use, I'd go with the chinese knockoff: They've been making things out of paper since forever.
Can I get 10 dollar drivers for these boxes anywhere?
If the tremor 18 cone can only go down to 40hz why is the dj guy saying it has great bass?
I have a 12in fan cooling my reciever.
"Live music is horrific to speaker drivers so such devices like brick wall filters set at what the woofers can handle, limiters to prevent over driving the speakers, compression to limit clipping, locking control panels to keep idiots from changing the settings, variable speed fans to cool amplifiers and some speaker have auto-resetting breakers on the tweeter horns. "
Where do I get these filters, no one will help me here. Someone said they cost just a few dollars, I'd like to get some please.
"Live music is horrific to speaker drivers so such devices like brick wall filters set at what the woofers can handle, limiters to prevent over driving the speakers, compression to limit clipping, locking control panels to keep idiots from changing the settings, variable speed fans to cool amplifiers and some speaker have auto-resetting breakers on the tweeter horns. "
Where do I get these filters, no one will help me here. Someone said they cost just a few dollars, I'd like to get some please.
"Closed boxes will provide driver loading right down to 1hz and below. Whether or not you can achieve any useful output below 20hz depends on displacement capabilities."
So should I seal it, will it better protect the speaker?
So should I seal it, will it better protect the speaker?
PROVANTAGE: Pyle PPA-8 Pyle 8 inch 8 Ohm Woofer
Would these work for replacing the destroyed cones? They're cheap paper chinese speakers apparently.
Would these work for replacing the destroyed cones? They're cheap paper chinese speakers apparently.
Someone already did, it's called a capacitor, or a bass blocker. I told you to use a crossover calculator to estimate the value you should shoot for depending on your desires. Use google and find this stuff.
It's what? Good below 40hz? unlikely.
I guess since a speaker is nothing more than a piece of paper then you have nothing to worry about here 🙂
Someone already said we need the cutout dimensions to help you any further with this.
The vast majority of live music contains very little content below 40hz. Therefor, if a sub is designed to play loud above 40hz, then it will impress the vast majority of people who need the sub for live music. Movie sound tracks and, 5 string basses, a select few electronica type programs, and weirdos with organ synths (hint hint) are not normal applications for a typical PA sub.
If you aren't willing to help yourself, how are we going to help you?
A sealed box will provide mechanical dampening to reduce the chances of over-excursion. It won't necessarily prevent you from frying the coils of some cheap woofers. It's just a step in a direction that should reduce the likelihood of you causing future damage at the expense of bass performance in the normal musical range.
http://www.parts-express.com/non-polorized-electrolytic-capacitors.cfm
I'd suggest picking up a few of the larger values over 200uF to "tinker" with.
This is not a solution without it's drawbacks. A proper active line level high pass filter is the only way to really "solve" this problem. Some amplifiers may go into protection mode with the highly capacitive load that this will cause.
I'd suggest picking up a few of the larger values over 200uF to "tinker" with.
This is not a solution without it's drawbacks. A proper active line level high pass filter is the only way to really "solve" this problem. Some amplifiers may go into protection mode with the highly capacitive load that this will cause.
Stick a filament bulb bulb in series. As it heats up, series resistance increases, so power to the speaker decreases.
wow..... and this was the speaker's fault? you are clearly going to find a way to blow any speakers you buy whether you use the inline caps or not and then you will blame the equipment, or us.........
your organ synth program must be outputting from a soundcard, your soundcard is unlikely to go below 20hz, so I wonder what the noise you were listening to was? harmonics from the 4hz wave? what audio interface are you using?
your organ synth program must be outputting from a soundcard, your soundcard is unlikely to go below 20hz, so I wonder what the noise you were listening to was? harmonics from the 4hz wave? what audio interface are you using?
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Simple experiment to help you understand the characteristics of oscillating mechanical systems (loudspeaker drivers are among these). Take a 4' piece of string & tie a weight of about 1 pound to the end of it then swing it from the top. You will find that the system wants to oscillate at about 0.5Hz (period of 2 seconds). Shorten the string to 1' and it now likes 1Hz (period of 1 second). This resonance is a strong intrinsic property and once you select the length (the mass has little effect as long as it is heavy enough to make aerodynamic forces small compared to gravitational) you are stuck with it.
In a speaker the mass of the cone and spring rate of the suspension create the resonant mechanical system. The magnet and voice coil supply enough mechanical force to move the cone at frequencies other than resonance, but the resonance creates fundamental constraints that, once you choose the magnet and voice coil, will limit the capabilities of the speaker as a function of displacement and frequency.
These are the iron laws of physics that you seem to think should just bend to what you want...but they don't. This gets a lot more complex when you add the mechanical properties of the area of the cone interacting with the air mass it moves and the characteristics of the box behind it. If you are serious about wanting to understand what a speaker can and cannot do you need to develop an understanding of speaker parameters.
OTOH if you just want us to tell you what to do here's a brief prescription:
-Stop feeding speakers with large signals below their low frequency limits or...
-Keep buying $5 speakers and blowing them up in short order
If you use the right capacitors (or more complex filters) to protect your speakers they will stop making the noises that you seem to enjoy!
In a speaker the mass of the cone and spring rate of the suspension create the resonant mechanical system. The magnet and voice coil supply enough mechanical force to move the cone at frequencies other than resonance, but the resonance creates fundamental constraints that, once you choose the magnet and voice coil, will limit the capabilities of the speaker as a function of displacement and frequency.
These are the iron laws of physics that you seem to think should just bend to what you want...but they don't. This gets a lot more complex when you add the mechanical properties of the area of the cone interacting with the air mass it moves and the characteristics of the box behind it. If you are serious about wanting to understand what a speaker can and cannot do you need to develop an understanding of speaker parameters.
OTOH if you just want us to tell you what to do here's a brief prescription:
-Stop feeding speakers with large signals below their low frequency limits or...
-Keep buying $5 speakers and blowing them up in short order
If you use the right capacitors (or more complex filters) to protect your speakers they will stop making the noises that you seem to enjoy!
I'll give it a shot
Playing guitar through normal speakers and the speakers are basically boxes that hold nuked parts. So you have a box.
Since the demand is for a piece of paper with a coil and magnet, I found a few of those.
Here is a $20 "musical instrument" speaker in the 8" size. Swap it out and directly wire it into the terminals--bypass the crossover. Plug the port to make the box sealed and enjoy your sound--it will make sound. No need to worry about a crossover as it is rated to 10KHz which should cover your guitar distortion.
MCM Audio Select 8'' Aluminum Cone Musical Instrument Speaker | 55-1295 (551295) | MCM Audio Select
To protect the thing, you need a crossover filter before the amplifier--not after.
Your music signal would go to the electronic crossover FIRST--there you set what frequencies go to your main speakers and what goes to the subwoofers. It should include a filter to cut out frequencies below what your subwoofer is rated to handle. Set it to 20Hz if that is what the Infinity is rated to do.
That is your solution, not more woofers, better woofers, inline capacitors, F-MODS or anything like that.
The crossover and filters is the way sound systems are setup, when you do it that way (the right way) it will limit the amount of damage to your speakers.
Have fun blowing up that 8" speaker thing--eventually you'll get sick of blowing stuff up and give up on the project--or you'll want to know why stuff dies quickly and will learn how sound systems operate.
PS, that 8" is an instrument speaker and only goes down to 60Hz--don't even think of playing bass through the thing. It should be fine since you will use a proper crossover before the amp so it should be OK as long as you don't crank it too hard. Maybe throw a 1.5 amp fast blow fuse inline with the instrument speaker will protect it until you figure out what distortion sounds like. (as long as it is not bass)
Playing guitar through normal speakers and the speakers are basically boxes that hold nuked parts. So you have a box.
Since the demand is for a piece of paper with a coil and magnet, I found a few of those.
Here is a $20 "musical instrument" speaker in the 8" size. Swap it out and directly wire it into the terminals--bypass the crossover. Plug the port to make the box sealed and enjoy your sound--it will make sound. No need to worry about a crossover as it is rated to 10KHz which should cover your guitar distortion.
MCM Audio Select 8'' Aluminum Cone Musical Instrument Speaker | 55-1295 (551295) | MCM Audio Select
To protect the thing, you need a crossover filter before the amplifier--not after.
Your music signal would go to the electronic crossover FIRST--there you set what frequencies go to your main speakers and what goes to the subwoofers. It should include a filter to cut out frequencies below what your subwoofer is rated to handle. Set it to 20Hz if that is what the Infinity is rated to do.
That is your solution, not more woofers, better woofers, inline capacitors, F-MODS or anything like that.
The crossover and filters is the way sound systems are setup, when you do it that way (the right way) it will limit the amount of damage to your speakers.
Have fun blowing up that 8" speaker thing--eventually you'll get sick of blowing stuff up and give up on the project--or you'll want to know why stuff dies quickly and will learn how sound systems operate.
PS, that 8" is an instrument speaker and only goes down to 60Hz--don't even think of playing bass through the thing. It should be fine since you will use a proper crossover before the amp so it should be OK as long as you don't crank it too hard. Maybe throw a 1.5 amp fast blow fuse inline with the instrument speaker will protect it until you figure out what distortion sounds like. (as long as it is not bass)
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