Congratulations and good luck
Hi Al,
Congratulations on finishing your design, it looks like a true high end reference for the ESS chipset and offers superb flexibility with meticulous attention to detail and build quality.
I really hope you get some commercial success to reward all your time, effort and money, my I please offer some thoughts on the best way to generate some sales?
In order to break into a small niche market (all high end DAC’s are niche) you must have independent reviews and comparisons with other top class DAC’s, this will take time and or money i.e. if you only have one demo unit that will need to be loaned out / shipped to appropriate reviewers it will take a long time.
With say, 4 or 5 demo units you could get all the reviews you need within approx. 6 months, assuming a 6 week turnaround per review.
As a DIY manufacturer you won’t be “qualified” to be reviewed in the mainstream AV press, this is a blessing in disguise!
You can get real credibility and market endorsement from recording studios, music producers and mixing engineers. These guys are not bothered about brand / marketing hype….All they care is about is the highest performance and top build quality (reliability).
Most Pro audio / musicians are a lot more approachable than the insecure demi gods who call themselves reviewers and dominate mainstream AV publications.
If you succeed in selling 5 to 10 units to top studio’s / independent producers / musicians, this will open up a key market….High end DAC manufacturers.
These guys spend a lot of money buying competitors models to test / reverse engineer, so you can offer them a product that is independently proven by top music professionals (assuming the reviews are positive!) to be superior to leading brands “X,Y and Z”....If they can beat your units performance they will then have the best ESS based DAC....
Your Denver audio club is a great start and if you have some more units to send to the other big audio clubs you could gather quite a following….Only a very small % of DIY club / forum members will have the money for high end kits, but even 0.1% of the million plus members (top 3 DIY sites alone) will still keep you busy!
Hope this helps and once again all the very best of luck and sorry if I am going on about stuff you already know!
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Al,
Congratulations on finishing your design, it looks like a true high end reference for the ESS chipset and offers superb flexibility with meticulous attention to detail and build quality.
I really hope you get some commercial success to reward all your time, effort and money, my I please offer some thoughts on the best way to generate some sales?
In order to break into a small niche market (all high end DAC’s are niche) you must have independent reviews and comparisons with other top class DAC’s, this will take time and or money i.e. if you only have one demo unit that will need to be loaned out / shipped to appropriate reviewers it will take a long time.
With say, 4 or 5 demo units you could get all the reviews you need within approx. 6 months, assuming a 6 week turnaround per review.
As a DIY manufacturer you won’t be “qualified” to be reviewed in the mainstream AV press, this is a blessing in disguise!
You can get real credibility and market endorsement from recording studios, music producers and mixing engineers. These guys are not bothered about brand / marketing hype….All they care is about is the highest performance and top build quality (reliability).
Most Pro audio / musicians are a lot more approachable than the insecure demi gods who call themselves reviewers and dominate mainstream AV publications.
If you succeed in selling 5 to 10 units to top studio’s / independent producers / musicians, this will open up a key market….High end DAC manufacturers.
These guys spend a lot of money buying competitors models to test / reverse engineer, so you can offer them a product that is independently proven by top music professionals (assuming the reviews are positive!) to be superior to leading brands “X,Y and Z”....If they can beat your units performance they will then have the best ESS based DAC....
Your Denver audio club is a great start and if you have some more units to send to the other big audio clubs you could gather quite a following….Only a very small % of DIY club / forum members will have the money for high end kits, but even 0.1% of the million plus members (top 3 DIY sites alone) will still keep you busy!
Hope this helps and once again all the very best of luck and sorry if I am going on about stuff you already know!
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Derek and All,
Thanks Derek for the great advice and the overall post. You're right, I have thought about some of your points but it's nice to know that we're on the same page. I'll see how things work out at Mike's (MisterRogers) 'mini meet' in Denver and we'll go from there.
In the meantime I'll continue working on the DAC adding the headphone section and working on my XMOS design. If anybody would like to see anything else added to the Blackbird DAC please feel free to chime in.
Before I go, I have to throw out a Big Big Thank You to Mike (MisterRogers) for taking the time out of his busy schedule to help me promote the Blackbird DAC. He's been great.
If you live in the Denver area and are curious about how the Blackbird DAC sounds, please contact Mike and join him at the 'mini meet' sometime in March.
Best regards,
Al
Thanks Derek for the great advice and the overall post. You're right, I have thought about some of your points but it's nice to know that we're on the same page. I'll see how things work out at Mike's (MisterRogers) 'mini meet' in Denver and we'll go from there.
In the meantime I'll continue working on the DAC adding the headphone section and working on my XMOS design. If anybody would like to see anything else added to the Blackbird DAC please feel free to chime in.
Before I go, I have to throw out a Big Big Thank You to Mike (MisterRogers) for taking the time out of his busy schedule to help me promote the Blackbird DAC. He's been great.
If you live in the Denver area and are curious about how the Blackbird DAC sounds, please contact Mike and join him at the 'mini meet' sometime in March.
Best regards,
Al
Does the headphone output taken from the single ended section ?
As an headphone junky, It could be nice to have the option to have the option to use output of the raw balanced output (bypassing the output resistors) to a XLR4p connector.
The drawback is that having the choice between 1/4" jack and XLR4p nearly require the use of "standard" d-panel, which may not visually suits everyone tastes.
As an headphone junky, It could be nice to have the option to have the option to use output of the raw balanced output (bypassing the output resistors) to a XLR4p connector.
The drawback is that having the choice between 1/4" jack and XLR4p nearly require the use of "standard" d-panel, which may not visually suits everyone tastes.
Hi GourouLubrik ,
No, the headphone output is not taken from the DAC's single ended outputs. The headphone section has a completely separate circuit that includes the LME49990 on the front-end connected to a LME49600 for the outputs. The LME49990 inputs are taken from the DAC's balanced outputs.
It is possible to use the DAC's balanced outputs (resistors bypassed) to drive headphones with lighter loads like the HE-500 but I'd have to replace the LME49990 with something like a ADA4898-1.
Thanks for the question.
Best regards,
Al
No, the headphone output is not taken from the DAC's single ended outputs. The headphone section has a completely separate circuit that includes the LME49990 on the front-end connected to a LME49600 for the outputs. The LME49990 inputs are taken from the DAC's balanced outputs.
It is possible to use the DAC's balanced outputs (resistors bypassed) to drive headphones with lighter loads like the HE-500 but I'd have to replace the LME49990 with something like a ADA4898-1.
Thanks for the question.
Best regards,
Al
wow nice
looking for a es9018 MULTIchannel dac that can play sacd-iso's(Multichannel DSD64) from usb.
If this is the case I would like to buy
looking for a es9018 MULTIchannel dac that can play sacd-iso's(Multichannel DSD64) from usb.
If this is the case I would like to buy
Hi guys, any update? How did the Denver meet go?
The headphone output seems like a good idea. Like Gouroulubrik, I think a balanced headphone output (4-pin XLR) in addition to single-ended could be a very nice extra.
Keep us posted!
AAK, did you find the time to try my suggestion of using the ADA4898-1 in the I/V stage? I would be very curious to hear your thoughts.
The headphone output seems like a good idea. Like Gouroulubrik, I think a balanced headphone output (4-pin XLR) in addition to single-ended could be a very nice extra.
Keep us posted!
AAK, did you find the time to try my suggestion of using the ADA4898-1 in the I/V stage? I would be very curious to hear your thoughts.
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Hey - I'll chime in with a 'partial' update 🙂
The Denver meet had to be pushed out a bit; there's a significant SoCal meet going on this weekend that was conflicting with the available time/schedules of our local audiophiles. I'm still working to lock down a time that works for everyone - hopefully in the next few weekends.
Meanwhile, a Blackbird DAC was sent to a good friend that owns/runs a very popular audio company for measurements. He owns some very expensive measurement gear, and we wanted more accurate measurements. With that 'tease', I'll leave Al to share the results 🙂
The Denver meet had to be pushed out a bit; there's a significant SoCal meet going on this weekend that was conflicting with the available time/schedules of our local audiophiles. I'm still working to lock down a time that works for everyone - hopefully in the next few weekends.
Meanwhile, a Blackbird DAC was sent to a good friend that owns/runs a very popular audio company for measurements. He owns some very expensive measurement gear, and we wanted more accurate measurements. With that 'tease', I'll leave Al to share the results 🙂
Hi Everybody,
After a much-needed break I’m back and ready to try again. To the diyAudio members that have been patiently waiting over the last few months - a Big Thank you for your PM and continued support. After more than two years working nights and weekends nearly non-stop on this project I just needed to step back and take a breather and regroup.
I’ve created a thread on the group buy forum making everything I’ve worked on to this point available including individual boards and fully assembled units. The GB for any item starts off with a minimum of 5 units. Here’s the link.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...channel-es9018-dac-group-buy.html#post4394859
If you have any question please let me know.
Best regards,
Al
After a much-needed break I’m back and ready to try again. To the diyAudio members that have been patiently waiting over the last few months - a Big Thank you for your PM and continued support. After more than two years working nights and weekends nearly non-stop on this project I just needed to step back and take a breather and regroup.
I’ve created a thread on the group buy forum making everything I’ve worked on to this point available including individual boards and fully assembled units. The GB for any item starts off with a minimum of 5 units. Here’s the link.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...channel-es9018-dac-group-buy.html#post4394859
If you have any question please let me know.
Best regards,
Al
So here are some measurements from MisterRogers good friend that owns a very popular audio company. The measurements of my Blackbird DAC were taken from a Stanford Research SR1 audio analyzer using the original I/V design. The last THD pic is from my new IV_1 with the headphone section added. I made some minor layout changes that appear to have lowered THD some compared to the original I/V board design.
The first THD pic is at a sample rate of 44.1Khz, then 96.0Khz, 192.0Khz, and 10Khz at 44.1Khz. The last pic of the new IV_1 is at a sample rate of 96.0Khz taken using my modified EMU-0404.
The first THD pic is at a sample rate of 44.1Khz, then 96.0Khz, 192.0Khz, and 10Khz at 44.1Khz. The last pic of the new IV_1 is at a sample rate of 96.0Khz taken using my modified EMU-0404.
Attachments
I didn't want to clog the GB thread, so I'm back here. For my curiosity, are the I/V stages fed with +/- 9VDC ?
The I/V rails are set to +/-12V. They can be set to +/-9V resulting in a slight increase in THD but it's not audible.
Hi Everybody,
Just wanted to let everybody know the Group Buy window for getting in on my fully assembled stereo or multichannel Blackbird ES1908 DAC or individual boards ends in two weeks.
If you want to place an order please let me know within the next two weeks. Here's the GB link.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...kbird-multi-channel-es9018-dac-group-buy.html
Best regards,
Al
Just wanted to let everybody know the Group Buy window for getting in on my fully assembled stereo or multichannel Blackbird ES1908 DAC or individual boards ends in two weeks.
If you want to place an order please let me know within the next two weeks. Here's the GB link.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...kbird-multi-channel-es9018-dac-group-buy.html
Best regards,
Al
Hi Everybody,
Just wanted to let everybody know the group buy for my Blackbird DAC will close soon. Everything from individual boards to fully completed Stereo and Mutlichannel DACs are available.
Here's the GB thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...kbird-multi-channel-es9018-dac-group-buy.html
If you're interested I'd love to have you on-board. 🙂
Best regards,
Al
Just wanted to let everybody know the group buy for my Blackbird DAC will close soon. Everything from individual boards to fully completed Stereo and Mutlichannel DACs are available.
Here's the GB thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...kbird-multi-channel-es9018-dac-group-buy.html
If you're interested I'd love to have you on-board. 🙂
Best regards,
Al
Hi Al,
Which of your boards do you recommend to put together an 8 ch USB dac similar to
U-DAC8 | miniDSP
Have you considered WaveIO for USB to I2S, would that board work well in the above application
And a rough cost estimate would be great
thanks
jp
Which of your boards do you recommend to put together an 8 ch USB dac similar to
U-DAC8 | miniDSP
Have you considered WaveIO for USB to I2S, would that board work well in the above application
And a rough cost estimate would be great
thanks
jp
Hi jp,
Option #4 listed in post #1 of the GB is what I recommend for an 8-channel USB DAC. The price is listed.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...kbird-multi-channel-es9018-dac-group-buy.html
I haven't considered the WaveIO but any USB to I2S device that outputs 2, 4, 6, or 8-channels will work with my design.
Thanks for the interest. If you have any other questions please let me know.
Best regards,
Al
Option #4 listed in post #1 of the GB is what I recommend for an 8-channel USB DAC. The price is listed.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/grou...kbird-multi-channel-es9018-dac-group-buy.html
I haven't considered the WaveIO but any USB to I2S device that outputs 2, 4, 6, or 8-channels will work with my design.
Thanks for the interest. If you have any other questions please let me know.
Best regards,
Al
ADA4898 test
Hey Everyone,
I got around to assembling the new IV_2 board this week for the ADA4898 and testing it on Friday and everything checked out Ok. No oscillations, square waves look great, THD looks great, temperature is about 55C at +/-12V which is within a comfortable range. Unfortunately the solder mask didn't cover the vias underneath the op-amp entirely so I had to use some small thermal pads cut to size to prevent any shorts.
So I moved on to the listening test comparing two Blackbird DACs, one with an IV_1 that uses the LME49990 and the other with the new IV_2 board with the ADA4898. I attached THD plots for both DACs to compare. The first plot is of DAC one with the LME49990 and the second with the ADA4898. As you can see THD for both op-amps is basically the same.
So after listening to both DACs with a variety of different music the LME49990 just overall sounded better than the ADA4898. I wouldn't say it was a significant difference but enough to be noticeable. The sound-stage seemed wider, voices and instruments sounded clearer, just more lively. I'm not sure if the ADA4898 has a break-in period but I'll try listening some more later today.
An update on the GB. The GB is a go. I'm currently awaiting payment from several members. The GB will remain open until I start ordering components. I figure for at least another week.
Best regards,
Al
Hey Everyone,
I got around to assembling the new IV_2 board this week for the ADA4898 and testing it on Friday and everything checked out Ok. No oscillations, square waves look great, THD looks great, temperature is about 55C at +/-12V which is within a comfortable range. Unfortunately the solder mask didn't cover the vias underneath the op-amp entirely so I had to use some small thermal pads cut to size to prevent any shorts.
So I moved on to the listening test comparing two Blackbird DACs, one with an IV_1 that uses the LME49990 and the other with the new IV_2 board with the ADA4898. I attached THD plots for both DACs to compare. The first plot is of DAC one with the LME49990 and the second with the ADA4898. As you can see THD for both op-amps is basically the same.
So after listening to both DACs with a variety of different music the LME49990 just overall sounded better than the ADA4898. I wouldn't say it was a significant difference but enough to be noticeable. The sound-stage seemed wider, voices and instruments sounded clearer, just more lively. I'm not sure if the ADA4898 has a break-in period but I'll try listening some more later today.
An update on the GB. The GB is a go. I'm currently awaiting payment from several members. The GB will remain open until I start ordering components. I figure for at least another week.
Best regards,
Al
Attachments
Al,
I'd say at those levels we are most likely seeing a lot of the EMU's ADC
distortion and noise. I have the 1212M with higher spec AKM ADC and even
it would only have slightly lower noise but similar distortion components.
Job well done - exceptional performance.
WRT LME49990, it has reputation of being a very good sounding opamp.
T
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