This is only a hipothesis and I said filter_or_tunning device. Something has to be going inside those cords, if they sound different.😉
fdegrove said:
Hmm, you may know lots more than me about cables, valves and electronics in general, but you need to think about electrical supply some more😉
Thought experiment, (
do not try this at home! ). What would happen if you briefly short neutral to earth? - Nothing, as they are usually bonded at your local substation or your own domestic distro panel. Well the RCD/GFI may trip if you have one, but that is due to the method they use internally to detect fault conditions.
What would happen if you briefly short live to earth, ( or neutral),? BANG
jackinnj said:
There are some power cords on the market that have an integral RF filter in the plug that goes into the wall. I am using these with good effect. I haven't found any difference in the sound, but my impression is that there is less sizzle and ticks than with "normal" cords.
Jan Didden
in my experience, the most important factors in powering your system is...
lowest possible impedance - the bigger wires the better.....!
avoid plugs - solder the hole thing if possible.....!
low impedance earth and also low inductance.....!
all this also goes for powercords too...!
🙂
lowest possible impedance - the bigger wires the better.....!
avoid plugs - solder the hole thing if possible.....!
low impedance earth and also low inductance.....!
all this also goes for powercords too...!
🙂
Hi,
It seems you're assuming that Live is actually Live and Neutral is actually Neutral.
That's a theoritical model where we forget that we run A.C. in a closed loop.
Unless we measure we don't know, and for all intents and purposes the fuse on the primary side will blow whether we put it in series with the wire that is colourcoded Live or Neutral.
In your experiment you assume that Neutral isn't carrying any current with respect to Earth but in reality it does just as much as the Live wire.
If we measure the difference between both with respect to Earth we will notice only a small ( mA not A) potential difference between both.
That's how it is on the continent and I think it won't be any different in the U.K.
I strongly advise against experimenting with this at home.
Could it be we were just mireading eachother?😉
It seems you're assuming that Live is actually Live and Neutral is actually Neutral.
That's a theoritical model where we forget that we run A.C. in a closed loop.
Unless we measure we don't know, and for all intents and purposes the fuse on the primary side will blow whether we put it in series with the wire that is colourcoded Live or Neutral.
In your experiment you assume that Neutral isn't carrying any current with respect to Earth but in reality it does just as much as the Live wire.
If we measure the difference between both with respect to Earth we will notice only a small ( mA not A) potential difference between both.
That's how it is on the continent and I think it won't be any different in the U.K.
I strongly advise against experimenting with this at home.
Could it be we were just mireading eachother?😉
Kids, Don't Let Al Do This...
Due to currents on the neutral wire between your system and the local street transformer (this includes the loads of other houses etc), DO NOT expect the neutral connection at your outlet to be at the same potential as YOUR local building earth.
Connecting Neutral and Local earth will likely cause big circulating currents in the power distribution/earthing system, and indeed elecrtrical codes prohibit any power connections to safety earthing.
Eric.
Al, I thought you are the safety foreman around here and you are asking this ?. 🙂
pinkmouse said:
Due to currents on the neutral wire between your system and the local street transformer (this includes the loads of other houses etc), DO NOT expect the neutral connection at your outlet to be at the same potential as YOUR local building earth.
Connecting Neutral and Local earth will likely cause big circulating currents in the power distribution/earthing system, and indeed elecrtrical codes prohibit any power connections to safety earthing.
Eric.
Al, I thought you are the safety foreman around here and you are asking this ?. 🙂
Hi Eric
Note the word "briefly" 😉
Oh yes, I am well aware of real earth loops!
A long time ago, in a universe far far away,( well, Amsterdam 😉) I managed to take out an entire substation, due to not supervising a local electrician properly when he wired up the 1000A 3 phase supply with both real earth and technical earth we needed for a Sony Professional exhibition stand....
Note the word "briefly" 😉
Oh yes, I am well aware of real earth loops!
A long time ago, in a universe far far away,( well, Amsterdam 😉) I managed to take out an entire substation, due to not supervising a local electrician properly when he wired up the 1000A 3 phase supply with both real earth and technical earth we needed for a Sony Professional exhibition stand....
fdegrove said:
unless you think humans are a mistake, USE THE INFINITIVE !
errare humanum est
(see, over here in the States us Chemistry and Physics majors had to take Latin and Greek in order to be librully educated.)
Hi,
Ah...linguistic nuances...
Wouldn't you agree both are correct although not quite the same?
Both can be translated into English to show the subtle differences I'd say.
That's interesting to know.
I had six years of Latin and five years of Greek, more or less simultaneously...all of which twenty eight years ago.
But I agree, "Errare humanum est" is the more idiomatic expression.
Cheers, 😉
Ah...linguistic nuances...
Wouldn't you agree both are correct although not quite the same?
Both can be translated into English to show the subtle differences I'd say.
That's interesting to know.
I had six years of Latin and five years of Greek, more or less simultaneously...all of which twenty eight years ago.
But I agree, "Errare humanum est" is the more idiomatic expression.
Cheers, 😉
Hi,
That was last year, wasn't it? I do remember you posting at least one picture from that show.
Cheers,😉
That was last year, wasn't it? I do remember you posting at least one picture from that show.
Cheers,😉
Well, i have been doing some simulations with the new toy and brute force filters. I think the major benefit of the LCLC||LCLC filter is keeping RFI from migrating from the power supply back onto the power line. If you are going to eliminate the harmonics it's going to be via feedback. I am really beginning to believe that BPL will be a disaster for audio enthusiasts.
I was just kidding. I also had six years of Latin, four years of French and just a smattering of Greek -- these to get out of college with a science degree in the States you don't have to know Sophocles from Euripides.
fdegrove said:
I was just kidding. I also had six years of Latin, four years of French and just a smattering of Greek -- these to get out of college with a science degree in the States you don't have to know Sophocles from Euripides.
Hi,
Ah, I see...you had me going for a while though...😉
Do the Greek words" gnoti seauton" mean anything to you?
Gamma, nu, omega, tau, iota sigma, epsilon, alpha, upsilon, tau, omikron, nu.
Look who's kidding now...😎
Glad to see you enjoyed such a formidable education, Jack.
Now, to get back on topic: what is BPL? If I may ask.
Also, when you measure A.C. voltage between Live and Earth or Neutral and Earth on a three pronged powerline, what voltage do you actually read from the meter?
The reason I ask is that I'm still a bit puzzled by Als' reply to an earlier post of mine.
In European households I, and anyone else for that matter, measure 240VAC with respect to Earth and 120 VAC between either two and Earth?
Is this the same worldwide or do we have different arrangement across the world?
Sorry I this looks totally trivial to all of you, just want to have this out of my system (pun intended).
Cheers,😉
Ah, I see...you had me going for a while though...😉
Do the Greek words" gnoti seauton" mean anything to you?
Gamma, nu, omega, tau, iota sigma, epsilon, alpha, upsilon, tau, omikron, nu.
Look who's kidding now...😎
Glad to see you enjoyed such a formidable education, Jack.
Now, to get back on topic: what is BPL? If I may ask.
Also, when you measure A.C. voltage between Live and Earth or Neutral and Earth on a three pronged powerline, what voltage do you actually read from the meter?
The reason I ask is that I'm still a bit puzzled by Als' reply to an earlier post of mine.
In European households I, and anyone else for that matter, measure 240VAC with respect to Earth and 120 VAC between either two and Earth?
Is this the same worldwide or do we have different arrangement across the world?
Sorry I this looks totally trivial to all of you, just want to have this out of my system (pun intended).
Cheers,😉
Hi Frank
No I think the photos were from either Vegas or Amsterdam, I can't remember which🙄
Sorry I don't quite understand your terminology
If I put a meter across my household mains, and indeed, everywhere I have worked in Europe, I get 240v live to neutral, and live to earth, and hopefully 0v, (but it can be up to about 10V due to differential phase loadings), earth to neutral.
Are you saying you have something different in Belgium?
No I think the photos were from either Vegas or Amsterdam, I can't remember which🙄
fdegrove said:
Sorry I don't quite understand your terminology
If I put a meter across my household mains, and indeed, everywhere I have worked in Europe, I get 240v live to neutral, and live to earth, and hopefully 0v, (but it can be up to about 10V due to differential phase loadings), earth to neutral.
Are you saying you have something different in Belgium?
Hi Al,
I'd put my money on Amsterdam. 😉
Ah, this is where my measurements differ: I get 240V live to neutral but measure 120V between either live or neutral and earth.
Which seems to indicate that the voltage has been split somewhere down the line.
Viewed in that light my comment about the indifference as to where the fuse is put make more sense.
I don't know, just trying to find out...as I don't see how I could possibly have measured it the wrong way.
Maybe my measurement was atypical?🙁
Cheers,...and don't lose any sleep over it.😉
I'd put my money on Amsterdam. 😉
Ah, this is where my measurements differ: I get 240V live to neutral but measure 120V between either live or neutral and earth.
Which seems to indicate that the voltage has been split somewhere down the line.
Viewed in that light my comment about the indifference as to where the fuse is put make more sense.
I don't know, just trying to find out...as I don't see how I could possibly have measured it the wrong way.
Maybe my measurement was atypical?🙁
Cheers,...and don't lose any sleep over it.😉
fdegrove said:
BPL = Broadband over Power Line => this will be a disaster for ham radio and emergency communications. Already the local grid is so poorly maintained in parts of the US that a.m. radio is static bound.
semper ubi sub ubi (every sophomore's wit)
fdegrove said:
It does make sense, viewed in that light.
Sounds similar to our North American system, but used differently.
The step-down transformers that feed our houses have 240V center-tapped secondaries. The center tap is "neutral", and is bonded to ground at the service panel. Some high power appliances (electric stoves, heaters, clothes dryers) use the 240V supply, but smaller items connect between one of the "hot" wires and the neutral point, for 120V
So it sounds like you have the same arrangement, except that you never power anything from "half" of the transformer, as we do. Your three-prong plug doesn't have a neutral, but rather two "hot" wires and a ground, which is connected to the center tap on the transformer.
Interesting.
Hi,
Yup...I checked it once again and I can confirm, you're spot on.
And I must say I find the arrangement quite attractive from an audio POV...
Which could bring us back to powerchords and why I like my dirt cheap twisted solid core pairs + earth lead so much...
Cheers,😉
Yup...I checked it once again and I can confirm, you're spot on.
And I must say I find the arrangement quite attractive from an audio POV...
Which could bring us back to powerchords and why I like my dirt cheap twisted solid core pairs + earth lead so much...
Cheers,😉
The Australian system is called MEN (mains earthed neutral).
In this setup, the neutral wire is grounded at the street transformer, and a safety earth is provided at each house (installation).
This constitutes as unbalanced power as is possible I suppose.
I find that an isolation transformer with floating secondary works very well for audio systems, but I have not been able to compare this with a grounded center tap on the secondary.
I have thought about fitting two caps in series across the floating secondary with the junction of the two caps grounded but have not tried this yet.
Eric.
In this setup, the neutral wire is grounded at the street transformer, and a safety earth is provided at each house (installation).
This constitutes as unbalanced power as is possible I suppose.
I find that an isolation transformer with floating secondary works very well for audio systems, but I have not been able to compare this with a grounded center tap on the secondary.
I have thought about fitting two caps in series across the floating secondary with the junction of the two caps grounded but have not tried this yet.
Eric.
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