I should note my speakers are 120cm tall and 35cm wide and 40kg each when the stands are sand filled. Two dominate a std UK living room. And these are small compared to what some people build on here (I note Pano used* to be an Altec fan and he certainly would have trouble getting 6 VOT cabinets in a room in any way that didn't look like Dr Who being attacked by Daleks).
20 years ago I was very much in the minimonitor paradigm and the speakers I used then (now my kitchen speakers) would have worked for this. So this leads me to need to go away and think more that this solution is an 'array of small monitors' rather than a generic 'multiple speaker' setup. Or a shaded array on its side. At which point I need to get my head around it more.
*Or more accurately still is and lacks space?
20 years ago I was very much in the minimonitor paradigm and the speakers I used then (now my kitchen speakers) would have worked for this. So this leads me to need to go away and think more that this solution is an 'array of small monitors' rather than a generic 'multiple speaker' setup. Or a shaded array on its side. At which point I need to get my head around it more.
*Or more accurately still is and lacks space?
But there are some sublime blumlein pair recordings out there with none of that.
I've heard choral recordings where the choir appears 40 ft behind the back wall of the room with two speakers. Albeit eye-watering expensive speakers.
So what is going on here? And this is where I need to think.
billshurv
However, if you have the room, this arangement works for larger speakers. So I do not see the need to exclude them. The problem comes for people (perhaps like yourself) who have invested in the largest pair of speakers they can accommodate...
Incidentally, my subwoofer, though housed in a single enclosure, has two separate drivers which are coupled acoustically. These are powered by a punchy car stereo amplifier with excellent low-pass filtering. This allows the small satellite speakers to be placed for the best imaging, whilst the subwoofer is placed for the best bass.
I think that, for many/most people, mini monitors could well be the best solution, particularly when accmpanied by one (or preferably two) meaty subwoofers. I have such a system. The six mini monitors double the maximum output compared to a pair of them, and the subwoofer adds gravity.
However, if you have the room, this arangement works for larger speakers. So I do not see the need to exclude them. The problem comes for people (perhaps like yourself) who have invested in the largest pair of speakers they can accommodate...
Incidentally, my subwoofer, though housed in a single enclosure, has two separate drivers which are coupled acoustically. These are powered by a punchy car stereo amplifier with excellent low-pass filtering. This allows the small satellite speakers to be placed for the best imaging, whilst the subwoofer is placed for the best bass.
They were bought for an American den. I invested in the wife who would allow them in a std British living room 🙂. Sadly I ended up giving away the 5 JBL control-1s I bought for surround experiments or I would try this.
As per OP request this thread has been moved to the Speaker forum. The title has been changed to reflect this.
Alas I no longer have the Altec A5 pair. 🙁 But I did consider doing this with 6 Magnepan - wouldn't that be cool? 😀
Too bad. The Control 1 is the first speaker I thought of for this. We had 12 of them around the top of the room where we did the >30 speaker sound system.
6 wall mount MC-1s (or the fancy motorised ones) would certainly look the part. If a little pricy for me.
I had silly ideas about trying surround sound with the control 1s then realised that there is just no sensible play to put the rear channels. But they went to good homes.
I had silly ideas about trying surround sound with the control 1s then realised that there is just no sensible play to put the rear channels. But they went to good homes.
I wonder if listening nearfield can give a similar experience? I find the closer I am to the speakers, and the farther they are from the walls, the more encompassing the sound and more "invisible" the speakers.
I think the effect would be similar, tho not as pronounced. With the multi-speaker setup, you are making the source much wider than just a single pair. Since I like big speakers, the effect is good for me.
I find I prefer the effect when I'm closer than an equilateral triangle and being so close I suppose my little speakers are effectively quite big. 🙂
billshurv
If you want to to try the multi-speaker approach, without making a sizeable investment, I can recommend the Ariston MSX-07. These are regularly coming up on a well known UK auction site for the unbelievable price of £20 per pair or thereabouts (used).
Irrational though it is I would have huge difficulty taking my Apogees out and replacing them with those and not having a stupendous bias against them. Ilogical and my problem, but it is the elephant in my room (well they are large and grey 🙂)
@billshurv
If you want something more powerful than 4 x 25 watt Ariston MSX-07'c how about having eight speakers, four per channel connected in series/parallel. This will handle 100 Watt RMS per channel, 200 Watts peak, and presents an 8 ohm load per channel to a two channel amp.
Still a bit weedy compared to the Apogees? Well, it just so happens that the 4:1 trick is fractal, i.e. it can be repeated indefinitely. Well, indefinitely is a bit impractical, but each of those eight speakers can be replaced by four speakers, totalling a monstrous 32 speakers rated at 400 Watts RMS, 800 watts peak! And it will still present an 8 ohm load, and be physically smaller than the Apogees. 😉
If you want something more powerful than 4 x 25 watt Ariston MSX-07'c how about having eight speakers, four per channel connected in series/parallel. This will handle 100 Watt RMS per channel, 200 Watts peak, and presents an 8 ohm load per channel to a two channel amp.
Still a bit weedy compared to the Apogees? Well, it just so happens that the 4:1 trick is fractal, i.e. it can be repeated indefinitely. Well, indefinitely is a bit impractical, but each of those eight speakers can be replaced by four speakers, totalling a monstrous 32 speakers rated at 400 Watts RMS, 800 watts peak! And it will still present an 8 ohm load, and be physically smaller than the Apogees. 😉
You missed the point. First you have to persuade me that a £10 injection moulded minimal cost maximal compromise speaker is capable of ANY fidelity. And this is where human nature and bias play a huge part and over ride consideration of whether it can work.
Agreed, I doubt that would match the Apogees, but it is probably as close as I will ever come to owning such monsters... 😉
Multisync
I believe you may be thinking of the Hafler Process for which Dynaco had a little add on box as a commercial unit. In the 70s we all tried this once. (Actually I think we tried a lot of things at least once... )
I believe you may be thinking of the Hafler Process for which Dynaco had a little add on box as a commercial unit. In the 70s we all tried this once. (Actually I think we tried a lot of things at least once... )
I should note mine are the smallest they ever made and I only got them as a pair was on sale cheap in pittsburgh and I needed to go there for a business trip. This was the days when luggage allowances were more generous. Best $300 I spent on audio !
Ha ha, that's crazy. Yes I remember carrying odd luggage back and forth across the Atlantic when the airlines were generous.
My feeling is that with this system of 6 speakers you can get big sound out of small speakers - and in a small space. That's a valuable advantage for many people.
Now that my Altec horns are being used outside in an amphitheater with 60 feet between them, I have all the big sound and steady center I could ever want. That's going to be difficult for most people to do indoors. 😛 Systems like this multi-speaker rig are interesting to try in smaller spaces and with smaller budgets.
My feeling is that with this system of 6 speakers you can get big sound out of small speakers - and in a small space. That's a valuable advantage for many people.
Now that my Altec horns are being used outside in an amphitheater with 60 feet between them, I have all the big sound and steady center I could ever want. That's going to be difficult for most people to do indoors. 😛 Systems like this multi-speaker rig are interesting to try in smaller spaces and with smaller budgets.
PS. FWIW since my 6 speakers are connected to a Yamaha HT receiver, so why not try a matrix? I put the Yamaha into 7.1 mode with Center turned off and all speakers set to large. Center, Surround, Back Surround. Dial up Dolby Pro-Logic II and have a listen.
Well..... That's something. Certainly a funky effect. There was a whole lot going on there, but it did sound rather artificial. The effect might be fun on some music. Sending the stereo 2 channel signal everywhere sounded much more natural. Jedaïsoul has got it right.
Well..... That's something. Certainly a funky effect. There was a whole lot going on there, but it did sound rather artificial. The effect might be fun on some music. Sending the stereo 2 channel signal everywhere sounded much more natural. Jedaïsoul has got it right.