Oh, and with xmax clues, you would maybe have needed to reconsider the stereo integrity 24" speaker, even without talking about the fact that it's a 24" ^^
Or at least, the PD2450 ^^
And for fun, BMS 18N862 got incredible 35mm xmax with same linear calcul as show earlier...but it's "only" a 18" speaker ^^
Or at least, the PD2450 ^^
And for fun, BMS 18N862 got incredible 35mm xmax with same linear calcul as show earlier...but it's "only" a 18" speaker ^^
i try to be ready for something more, also beyma 21SW1600Nd has 7.60 kg Neodymium magnet almost 8 kg more than other "2000 watt AES drivers"....
Dear Koutrou,
What SpeakerFrank, Papasteack and me, are trying to tell you.. Please read a little more about hornloading, speakers, dB's, voice coil's, volume displacement etc before you order the biggest powerfull woofer and try your hand at design. We are not trying to make you look stupid, we are trying to help you. I don't know about SpeakerFrank and Papasteack, but for me the more I learn, the more I understand there is far more to be learned yet. I have been building for more then 20 years...
Try to put a known design, for example this one: http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=21superscooper in Hornresp, so you get a little bit more grip on what speaker design is all about.
What SpeakerFrank, Papasteack and me, are trying to tell you.. Please read a little more about hornloading, speakers, dB's, voice coil's, volume displacement etc before you order the biggest powerfull woofer and try your hand at design. We are not trying to make you look stupid, we are trying to help you. I don't know about SpeakerFrank and Papasteack, but for me the more I learn, the more I understand there is far more to be learned yet. I have been building for more then 20 years...
Try to put a known design, for example this one: http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=21superscooper in Hornresp, so you get a little bit more grip on what speaker design is all about.
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Ok i know you have more experience so do you know any efficient cabinet with low frequency response ? I try to find something powerful because i have only 2 woofers for lows..... also whats you opinion about those cabinets do you think that this will not works well ? http://postimg.org/image/wvl3nuck9/ , http://postimg.org/image/cq7586n81/
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The Mogale Superscooper would be an excellent start if you want to start with PA bass. Or a proven Tapped horn. But far more import would be a grip on how much Bass you really need for your party in dB's @ which frequency.
Yes this cabinet is good but there are and better cabinets like 184 Sub lower frequencly and more sensitivity same time... why Superscooper ?
...how many liters :
100000 ?
2000 ?
6 order band-pass can be modelised just like a horn without optimising volumes forms (don't know if i explain right...)...
There's all kind of horns...
Just done a test a example with hornresp : 125 db flat @1pi from 20 to 700hz (high, but for crossing coherency), @ 2000w/4ohm or 1000w each, tqwt design (for fun ^^) 850 liters. Not the most efficient, but flat, so really coherent crossing. 12mm cone displacement at 25hz...So it's really xmax limited and not so much power handling limited at those frequencies....
What i mean is that you cannot treat cabinet and speaker separatly....You cannot choose a speaker, and after, a box. You MUST build a cabinet FOR the speakers you got. If not, it's a waste of time and money.
Mogale superscooper...Ok => hornresp => OD
Huge 2 500 liters, 2 beyma in serie, 1000w amp, 132 db @1pi f3=20hz +/- 3db to 500hz, 10mm displacement at around 27hz. Stuffed to flatten response...
Can be done in 2 x 1 250 liters of course... ^^
You need to learn about speaker, as all of use, each at his level, have reached next level with time past learning, and still learning.
Huge 2 500 liters, 2 beyma in serie, 1000w amp, 132 db @1pi f3=20hz +/- 3db to 500hz, 10mm displacement at around 27hz. Stuffed to flatten response...
Can be done in 2 x 1 250 liters of course... ^^
You need to learn about speaker, as all of use, each at his level, have reached next level with time past learning, and still learning.
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Two informations for you koutrou, the 21SW1600Nd is not more in Production and the weight that is specified is measured with poleplates and enclosure for the magnet!
And again the weight of a magnet, whether Neodym or Ferrit or Alnicco is not a criteria that is really important!
But if you want a usable and easy to build Enclosure, go for a 350 L netto Br enclosure tuned to 32.5 Hz and you get a well working Subwoofer! Br Tunnel with 750 sqcm and 38 cm length. But this could be changed also to two tunnels from 375 sqcm and a length of 44 cm. I would suggest the two tunnel version! The -3dB is at 31.8 Hz!
At rated input,1400 W, you get a freefield Spl from 128 dB and at max input,2800 W, you get 130.5 dB. That inside the healthy thermal and mechanical limits! You can ad another 3 cB when placed on the floor and another 3 when placed at a wall!
Easy to build. easy to handle!
And again the weight of a magnet, whether Neodym or Ferrit or Alnicco is not a criteria that is really important!
But if you want a usable and easy to build Enclosure, go for a 350 L netto Br enclosure tuned to 32.5 Hz and you get a well working Subwoofer! Br Tunnel with 750 sqcm and 38 cm length. But this could be changed also to two tunnels from 375 sqcm and a length of 44 cm. I would suggest the two tunnel version! The -3dB is at 31.8 Hz!
At rated input,1400 W, you get a freefield Spl from 128 dB and at max input,2800 W, you get 130.5 dB. That inside the healthy thermal and mechanical limits! You can ad another 3 cB when placed on the floor and another 3 when placed at a wall!
Easy to build. easy to handle!
Thanks man also i have a question why those speakers ( B&C 21SW152 is a very high power 21" subwoofer for speaker subwoofer systems- B&C 21SW152 21" Subwoofer has a lightweight neodymium magnet - B&C 21SW152 21" high power speaker for speaker subwoofer systems has an xmax of 15.0mm. B&C 21SW152 high powe , http://prvaudio.com/pdf/21SW4000_Datasheet.pdf , PD.2150 ) dont have better spl 20hz - 40hz (most important low frequency) than Beyma (Beyma Speakers - Beyma 21PW1400Fe 21" subwoofer speaker - Beyma 21PW1400Fe high power 2,800 watt 21" woofer for all bass applications. Beyma 21PW1400Fe and other Beyma 18" speakers here.) also those woofers have better bl factor and mechanic, voice coil but think Beyma is better to that frequency because of big power magnet so dont give attention only to mechanics of speakers. Only Precision Devices PD.2150 has better spl and thats why this measured in a 234 litres cabinet other speakers measured without box. Ι dont try shows you that I am knowledge but i see those results of measurements in spl what do you think ? this is lies measurements just want to know ?
To make it short :
Do you prefer 100db/w sensitivity at 100hz with final maximum of 120db spl at 1m with let say 10watts before damaging speaker, because of small xmax, OR 88db/w at X frequency but with final maximum spl of 135db at the same frequency but with let say 1000watt... ? (numbers only to illustrate...don't overlook)
Any use of sensitivity and big magnet if maximum sound is small due to small xmax ?
Sensitivity is important when phisical xmax limitation is not a problem, to use less watt. For sub, it's not so much the problem.
If you where talking about frequencies >100hz, would would be right. Bellow 100hz, it just don't work so simply...
Do you prefer 100db/w sensitivity at 100hz with final maximum of 120db spl at 1m with let say 10watts before damaging speaker, because of small xmax, OR 88db/w at X frequency but with final maximum spl of 135db at the same frequency but with let say 1000watt... ? (numbers only to illustrate...don't overlook)
Any use of sensitivity and big magnet if maximum sound is small due to small xmax ?
Sensitivity is important when phisical xmax limitation is not a problem, to use less watt. For sub, it's not so much the problem.
If you where talking about frequencies >100hz, would would be right. Bellow 100hz, it just don't work so simply...
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Hi koutrou,
Post #60: "...cross it to 120hz - 140hz i preferred low freqencly response down 30hz..."
Would that be the -10dB or -6dB or -3dB of flat below fall-off points? It makes a big difference. And, what do you really have to have as a low frequency corner for the music you are going to be playing? Would -6dB @ 40Hz be enough?
Regards,
Post #60: "...cross it to 120hz - 140hz i preferred low freqencly response down 30hz..."
Would that be the -10dB or -6dB or -3dB of flat below fall-off points? It makes a big difference. And, what do you really have to have as a low frequency corner for the music you are going to be playing? Would -6dB @ 40Hz be enough?
Regards,
Thank you understand , i want to know 1 last thing do you think that those cabinets plans are good or a crap ? --> 1st plan View image: new plans1 gaps idea from 184 Sub cabinet ( Speakerplans.com ) , and second plan View image: new plans2 gaps idea from 18 sound MANIFOLDED bandpass ( http://www.eighteensound.it/portals/...uble18_kit.jpg ) i have also dimensions if you want....
To tell you the truth I want a cabinet with peak spl 137-140 db (-3dB) and frequency 30hz and down.... there are some PA cabinets like this and better for example.... Martin Audio ASX 152 db peak spl and frequency response 32Hz - 180Hz , Nexo STM S118 143 db peak spl and frequency response 27hz-85hz , KV2 Audio VHD 1.21 137 db peak spl and frequency response 29hz-60hz , Fohhn Audio PS-9 sub Max. SPL 145 db and frequency response 28 Hz – 110 Hz , RCF SUB 8004-AS Max SPL 136 db and frequency response 30hz-120hz. Those are best singles 18" or 21" drivers cabinets with low frequency response and realy good sensitivity....
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Hi koutrou,
Without commenting on what other people's sales brochures say about the performance of their products (you know: paper is patient), at least now we have an output SPL target: -3dB point of 30Hz and 180Hz @ 137dB.
With the driver you have choosen you'll need at least two dual driver enclosures (in other words: four drivers) to get there, and even then you'll have a hard time doing it within Xmax.
And that is before taken power compression into consideration.
Regards,
Without commenting on what other people's sales brochures say about the performance of their products (you know: paper is patient), at least now we have an output SPL target: -3dB point of 30Hz and 180Hz @ 137dB.
With the driver you have choosen you'll need at least two dual driver enclosures (in other words: four drivers) to get there, and even then you'll have a hard time doing it within Xmax.
And that is before taken power compression into consideration.
Regards,
You have right man xmax is very important for hornloaded and 6 order cabinets and i didnt knowing that is so important. However I will do best I can.... Thanks for your time....
Its really a shame that you do not want to understand Koutrou. Martin Audio and Fohhn work with the Ipal Amping of Powersoft and the 21" Ipal Driver from B&C and the Max Spl is a shortterm peak when the Ipalmodule delivers around 8500 Watts into the driver! Measured under the best possible conditions. The max SPL of the others are not real in my opinion! A Single 18 that delivers 140 and up??? No way!
Your Beyma is a nice driver, no question, but its not capeble to even get close to the 140 dB area when used as Singledriver!
Your Beyma is a nice driver, no question, but its not capeble to even get close to the 140 dB area when used as Singledriver!
Ok understand now ,but i think a cabinet like Nexo STM S118 (enough good even lies specifications) this looks like to X1 design , what do you think about X1 vs 184 Sub ?
Or you should come near 30-140hz @140db, but at +/-6db, in 0,5pi space, and hitting xmax, with the distortion (unlinearity) that it come with
Design type or kind is not the problem. It's physical laws your problem here ^^
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Just for fun 500 watt only to show power handling is not the problem...and i didn't tryed the compression tool (not sure if it is ready avaliable)...And, it's a 0,5pi simulation, far from real efficiency...
Design type or kind is not the problem. It's physical laws your problem here ^^
EDIT :
Just for fun 500 watt only to show power handling is not the problem...and i didn't tryed the compression tool (not sure if it is ready avaliable)...And, it's a 0,5pi simulation, far from real efficiency...
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