The whole of your tirade is irrelevant.
The guy that did open the thread presented curves and other
engineer like explanations..
So he was simply answered the same way.
Now, that a moderator enter the dance to side one party is no
problem as long as he stays on topic with what is discussed by
the contenders..
Doing otherwise is trolling...
Wahab,
I understand the words, but have no idea what it is you refer to.
If you see something that you think is wrong, why not report the post? Coming back later (days? weeks? months?) with something nobody has any idea about isn't very usefull imho.
jd
Maybe be aware that a certain approach or behaviour result in some members keeping away from the table
Many good members who may even have the needed info will stay clear of troubled threads
I believe its important to "make room" fore ALL to participate
It doesnt matter whether I understand the subject or not
Its not about being right or wrong
We have to create good conditions fore constructive debating
If not, it turns into a "one way street"
Im sure it happens all too often that members who may actually be able to solve a problem being debated, they stay away because of the way a problem is debated
Way too much energy is wasted on posts like "you said this or that"
I dont understand this need to prove people wrong, rather than trying to be constructive, and maybe even find a way to solve a problem
I learned early in my life that the only positive critisism is constructive critisism
Its the goal that makes the whole difference
Is it to achieve something better, or is it just about putting it down
Also, it may often be scaringly small differences that makes it go one way or the other
Anyway, you ask us to be perfect
Surely, noone are
Maybe realise that if a thread turns bad, the cure may be bad too
Like with medicine there are always less wanted side effects
And then theres the issue of keeping it all well organised, to avoid a mess
That alone sometimes involves tough decisions
Many good members who may even have the needed info will stay clear of troubled threads
I believe its important to "make room" fore ALL to participate
It doesnt matter whether I understand the subject or not
Its not about being right or wrong
We have to create good conditions fore constructive debating
If not, it turns into a "one way street"
Im sure it happens all too often that members who may actually be able to solve a problem being debated, they stay away because of the way a problem is debated
Way too much energy is wasted on posts like "you said this or that"
I dont understand this need to prove people wrong, rather than trying to be constructive, and maybe even find a way to solve a problem
I learned early in my life that the only positive critisism is constructive critisism
Its the goal that makes the whole difference
Is it to achieve something better, or is it just about putting it down
Also, it may often be scaringly small differences that makes it go one way or the other
Anyway, you ask us to be perfect
Surely, noone are
Maybe realise that if a thread turns bad, the cure may be bad too
Like with medicine there are always less wanted side effects
And then theres the issue of keeping it all well organised, to avoid a mess
That alone sometimes involves tough decisions
Well, explain us how a debate can be constructive if wrong and
right doesn t matter.
So , according to you,spreading misinformation doesn t matter as
long as it s done the "right" way, if i can say so..
I remind you that we are discussing technical matters, not philosophical
dogms.
Thats something
Then I suppose you understand my point about looking beyond "being right or wrong", and instead to focus more on getting a good or better result
Isnt that what "engeneering debate" is about, and less about politics
Being right or wrong mostly involves politics
Engeneering debate ought to be about improving things
Practical and logical
Basicly, I would say that "removing" a project is no improvement
Its just a loss
To instead try and improve a project is positively constructive
Sure, it takes critisism as well
But its positive constructive critisism
And serves a good purpos
Some members/designers dont like that too much either, but thats a different issue
But very often that too is about "presentation", like said by Cal
Mind you, just because we may have an opinion about something, it doesnt mean we HAVE to post it
If we all gave our worst opinion here, it would get ugly very fast
Then I suppose you understand my point about looking beyond "being right or wrong", and instead to focus more on getting a good or better result
Isnt that what "engeneering debate" is about, and less about politics
Being right or wrong mostly involves politics
Engeneering debate ought to be about improving things
Practical and logical
Basicly, I would say that "removing" a project is no improvement
Its just a loss
To instead try and improve a project is positively constructive
Sure, it takes critisism as well
But its positive constructive critisism
And serves a good purpos
Some members/designers dont like that too much either, but thats a different issue
But very often that too is about "presentation", like said by Cal
Mind you, just because we may have an opinion about something, it doesnt mean we HAVE to post it
If we all gave our worst opinion here, it would get ugly very fast
Mods are members in the first place. Only when thesymbol is used, we post in official capacity.
Now you're getting lost in your own spin. Just a minute ago the mods were conceding that maybe the commercial forums were not clearly identified as being distinct, and some new steps would be taken to identify that fact. Now you are saying that if you don't see the mod smiley, but the pane on the left still clearly says "Moderator", that you should the post is not in an official capacity? That is clear? Would you like to audit the mods to see how strictly that is being adhered to?
Tinitus,
You are exactly right here.
I have been a member of this forum for years, and have been one of the type who don't bother getting in an argument. Dozens and dozens of these types of "debates" have not done anything to advance the mission of DIY Audio. As you moderate, please keep close to the mission of advancing DYI and all of Audio.
Joe Eberly
You are exactly right here.
I have been a member of this forum for years, and have been one of the type who don't bother getting in an argument. Dozens and dozens of these types of "debates" have not done anything to advance the mission of DIY Audio. As you moderate, please keep close to the mission of advancing DYI and all of Audio.
Joe Eberly
Nope, what Jason said was that the participating ITB members weren't clearly identified- the forums certainly are, they're all in the "Vendors'" area. What we're proposing to do is have commercial participants have some sort of identifying mark. The line between hobbyist and commercial is often fuzzy, but most of the time, it's pretty clear cut.
There will be some more explicit stuff posted, but basically, if you see a Cop badge, the moderator is posting ex officio and his word in that post is Law. No badge, he's exactly the same as any other member, and feel free to argue as you would with anyone else. There is a LOT of peer pressure among the mods, so any abuse of the position would be dealt with immediately and completely (i.e., no more mod). Hasn't happened yet since I got here, for which I credit the rigorous selection process that well predated me (it involves runes, candles, and wooden paddles).
Well Tony, with the exception of a partial recognition of your first couple lines in post 56 by Jason, I can't find what you are speaking of. I find that in posts 64, 68 and 70 the mods seem to say the opposite. Perhaps you could point out what you are speaking of rather than confuse the issue with statements like that.
We audit ourselves all the time Tony. If any mod is involved in a any sort of heated discussion, they bring it to the attention of the other mods and ask that any action mod be taken by someone else. You can't pull the mod card when you are half the problem. I've had my posts pulled and been warned by the other mods that I am stepping over the line and to discontinue. Happens more ofter than you would guess.
If you have any examples of conduct other than this please report these things. No one is immune to the rules, especially not the mods who are supposed to uphold them.
EDIT: SY posted while I was distracted with a phone call.
Hi SY,
... You forgot about the splinters.
All,
What SY said about the moderating team keeping everyone honest is so true. As has been said many times, we are all individuals and come from different parts of the world. We really do not think with a common mind and if one mod suggests action that the rest feels may be inappropriate, there is a discussion and a group decision prevails.
It's also true that we are just members firstly. You can judge the tone of a post pretty easily if you are warned. By the time the hat comes out, things are getting serious. Everyone is supposed to be "all growed up now", so act like it.
As far as participation in a thread is concerned, we need to revisit some guidelines of good manners I think. A thread is the same thing as a conversation taking place in real life. Before you decide to post in there, please consider if what you have to say is polite, or a rude interruption. Let's say there is a technical point being talked about. If you would like an explanation on some concept, politely ask. You will probably be given an explanation at some point soon, or you may be directed to a post where the same question was answered previously. Respect that, please. If you wish to clarify what you believe to be an error, then politely refer to what you are speaking about and make your comment clearly and politely. I think it goes without saying that you should have a reasonable expectation of being correct before saying anything. Asking about a point of view is fine.
If you decide to interrupt a discussion with something you have heard somewhere, then argue about it without really knowing, I would suggest that you are being impolite and should probably exit right away. The same holds true for a member to enter into a debate with no actual knowledge of the subject, but with what they consider to be superior reasoning skills. That type of action is trolling, just being a pain for entertainment. I'm sure Monty Python probably has a site for arguments if that is what you are looking for.
Learning is fine as long as a thread is not disrupted to often. If the topic is well beyond your understanding, you should be looking for a topic where you have at least a partial understanding.
Never underestimate the power of searching (being improved BTW). You can learn a great deal by reading older threads. In fact, that question is posed if you attempt to open a new thread. "Have you searched ...?".
Hmmmm, I just tried to open a thread to see what it says exactly. Things have changed and it now says ....
My message is simple. Problems are caused when members are not mindful of people around them. Show some respect and it will be returned.
-Chris
... You forgot about the splinters.
All,
What SY said about the moderating team keeping everyone honest is so true. As has been said many times, we are all individuals and come from different parts of the world. We really do not think with a common mind and if one mod suggests action that the rest feels may be inappropriate, there is a discussion and a group decision prevails.
It's also true that we are just members firstly. You can judge the tone of a post pretty easily if you are warned. By the time the hat comes out, things are getting serious. Everyone is supposed to be "all growed up now", so act like it.
As far as participation in a thread is concerned, we need to revisit some guidelines of good manners I think. A thread is the same thing as a conversation taking place in real life. Before you decide to post in there, please consider if what you have to say is polite, or a rude interruption. Let's say there is a technical point being talked about. If you would like an explanation on some concept, politely ask. You will probably be given an explanation at some point soon, or you may be directed to a post where the same question was answered previously. Respect that, please. If you wish to clarify what you believe to be an error, then politely refer to what you are speaking about and make your comment clearly and politely. I think it goes without saying that you should have a reasonable expectation of being correct before saying anything. Asking about a point of view is fine.
If you decide to interrupt a discussion with something you have heard somewhere, then argue about it without really knowing, I would suggest that you are being impolite and should probably exit right away. The same holds true for a member to enter into a debate with no actual knowledge of the subject, but with what they consider to be superior reasoning skills. That type of action is trolling, just being a pain for entertainment. I'm sure Monty Python probably has a site for arguments if that is what you are looking for.
Learning is fine as long as a thread is not disrupted to often. If the topic is well beyond your understanding, you should be looking for a topic where you have at least a partial understanding.
Never underestimate the power of searching (being improved BTW). You can learn a great deal by reading older threads. In fact, that question is posed if you attempt to open a new thread. "Have you searched ...?".
Hmmmm, I just tried to open a thread to see what it says exactly. Things have changed and it now says ....
The intent is the same and this may be more helpful in practice.
My message is simple. Problems are caused when members are not mindful of people around them. Show some respect and it will be returned.
-Chris
I wasn't suggesting that an audit of moderating activity was required, my point was that if you guys did an audit of how many times mods followed through with your supposed policy of always using the mod smiley, you would see the lack of consistency. I have seen many many posts where mods were chastising behaviour and giving warnings without bothering to put the smiley in.
In my opinion (for what that's worth), allegations of this nature ought to be backed up with pointers to some actual examples. We can then decide for ourselves if you have a valid point or if, for example, you've been the recipient of what you perceived to be such behaviour and are just venting your feelings.
Please note, this is not intended as an attack on you. I'm speaking from personal experience - I've been in similar scenarios many times over the years.
And who are you?
Forget it then, keep putting the onus on those without a badge, and dissuade people from stepping up and providing feedback or dissenting opinions.
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