If a member is continually starting Group Buys or Trading Post threads and not adding significant content to the other "core" forums then they will be / are investigated. If they can't come up with a good reason then they will likely be deemed commercial and fall under our commercial rules.
I think this is exactly the point. It's about politeness and educated behaviour with respect to those members.Peter Daniel said:
I have the strong feeling that many cases simply would not have become such an issue if these fundamental rules of living together would have been respected.
Tino
I think we have a level of things. Matti Ottala used snubbers long time ago, 70's, and I don't think anyone has asked him about it and before that he didn't invent it.
If someone here is the very first to introduce something, that doesn't give him the right to "own" the idea. I think everyone who contribute should do it as "public domain", not by deny the origin but let it go more like.
We see also a pattern here that some people demand respect but won't get it and some other get respect without any work. Why is that? Something to think about.
If someone here is the very first to introduce something, that doesn't give him the right to "own" the idea. I think everyone who contribute should do it as "public domain", not by deny the origin but let it go more like.
We see also a pattern here that some people demand respect but won't get it and some other get respect without any work. Why is that? Something to think about.
AudioFreak said:
This has always been the case with this person. Why choose to enforce this previously uncommunicated rule at this time? Why wasn't this invoked at the time other complaints were made with regards to this person? There were complaints made as long as 18 months ago.
Jeff, if I may ask, what's your interest here? Do you think you've been cheated by some group buy? Do you want to run one but are afraid of some unintended infraction? Or is it just esthetic and you just like nice, neat, clean, written rules with no room for human judgement?
I'd like to understand what your real concern is here. Clearly, if you don't want to read about or participate in group buys, you don't have to.
I'd like to understand what your real concern is here. Clearly, if you don't want to read about or participate in group buys, you don't have to.
AudioFreak said:
I hope this will work.
By the way, if somebody post their things here on diyAudio (open to public), it means that they want to share the things with all public members. But, when members starts share them sometimes by means of GB, they balims members in horrible ways.
I am fully confused.
Looking at their reactions against GB, I feel that they post their things not to share them with members, but rather to advertise their knowledges or products.
Just for bows . . . ? No sense. Just avoid posting them.
My real view is that the "core" forums are glued by GB posters too much . . . everywhere on the wall . . . ugly looking . . .
Regards
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Wow, the great batmen over there are laughing with scorn everyday . . .
jh6you,
If you wish to report posts in the core forums where people are hawking their wares or advertising group buys etc. then by all means feel free to do so. We can't be everywhere at once and we can't read every thread that's written. So, if it needs attention, please bring it to our attention.
If you wish to report posts in the core forums where people are hawking their wares or advertising group buys etc. then by all means feel free to do so. We can't be everywhere at once and we can't read every thread that's written. So, if it needs attention, please bring it to our attention.
peranders said:
Peranders,
A forum like that is mainly intended for sharing information, not as playfield for commerce.
To be able to run a group buy or commercial offering, could be compared to having a driving license: it is not your right to have it, but a privledge, which can be given to you, but not neccessarily.
Same with GB or other offers, it is always secondary to main purpose of the forum. If it interferes with some members, it should not be permitted.
We have this:
Every groupbuy has run smoothly with one exception, you know which, but it did go right in the end.
I'm pretty sure that 100% of the "customers" are satisfied, no problem there.
I and everyone else here think that groupbuy is an unique thing on this forum and the internet. Many good things has come out of it, like high quality pcb's which are impossible for a deadly person to get hold of.
Here we respect everyone, from a very total newbie to an extreme expert. It's OK here to only buy a kit and then build it.
Over at some other place we can read "how" do-it-yourself should be done. This is by actually designing yourself and buying readymade things is not OK and certianly not groupbuys. Groupbuys are some ugly business according to them. It's their point of view and I respect that but this isn't my point of view and probably noone else's here.
Those who complain have an unclear view how much things cost and what is fair regarding prices and also the number of groupbuys. Some people tend to forget the numbers. What is big really and what is small?
Every groupbuy has run smoothly with one exception, you know which, but it did go right in the end.
I'm pretty sure that 100% of the "customers" are satisfied, no problem there.
I and everyone else here think that groupbuy is an unique thing on this forum and the internet. Many good things has come out of it, like high quality pcb's which are impossible for a deadly person to get hold of.
Here we respect everyone, from a very total newbie to an extreme expert. It's OK here to only buy a kit and then build it.
Over at some other place we can read "how" do-it-yourself should be done. This is by actually designing yourself and buying readymade things is not OK and certianly not groupbuys. Groupbuys are some ugly business according to them. It's their point of view and I respect that but this isn't my point of view and probably noone else's here.
Those who complain have an unclear view how much things cost and what is fair regarding prices and also the number of groupbuys. Some people tend to forget the numbers. What is big really and what is small?
A group buy is when a group of people gets together to buy an established product with intention to save money. Examples: R-Theta heatsinks, Cardas connectors, transformers, semiconductors.
When somebody designs his own product, being it a board, a circuit, a chassis, it should not go under group buy term. In that case it qualifies as a sale to a group of people, not neccessarily with intention to save money, but possibly to also make some money on a side (to cover the time or effort invested). In such case, any offer of that type should be dealt from Vendors Bazaar only. If the member can prove that there is very little profit (so called beer money), or no profit involved, a usual fee of $100 could be waved, but such offer (of a unique, member created product) could be only run from Vendors Bazaar.
Why people like to use Group Buy description to hawk their goods? It creates an illusion that the product is somehow very cheap and affordable. It is usually the case, but it is still not a group buy, it is an organized sale to a group.
This would once and for all clear all confusions about authentity of GB and stop people complaining about it.
The true GB offererings could be permitted from Group Buy section of the Forum only, not from Pass Labs, Electronics and Parts or Chip Amps.
When somebody designs his own product, being it a board, a circuit, a chassis, it should not go under group buy term. In that case it qualifies as a sale to a group of people, not neccessarily with intention to save money, but possibly to also make some money on a side (to cover the time or effort invested). In such case, any offer of that type should be dealt from Vendors Bazaar only. If the member can prove that there is very little profit (so called beer money), or no profit involved, a usual fee of $100 could be waved, but such offer (of a unique, member created product) could be only run from Vendors Bazaar.
Why people like to use Group Buy description to hawk their goods? It creates an illusion that the product is somehow very cheap and affordable. It is usually the case, but it is still not a group buy, it is an organized sale to a group.
This would once and for all clear all confusions about authentity of GB and stop people complaining about it.
The true GB offererings could be permitted from Group Buy section of the Forum only, not from Pass Labs, Electronics and Parts or Chip Amps.
But the schematic is often the product that is being sold only in pcb format. If for instance, Nelson Pass is nice enough to give the public a new circuit to play with, I have no problem with someone setting up a Group Buy for a number of people to get pcb's made for this new circuit so long as the cost to each member is not significantly above cost.
AudioFreak said:
I don't mind either, but somehow I'm not sure how it should be approach to leave me clear of all doubts. If you look at Zv9 PCB thread, I am very reluctant to call it a group buy, even if people push me to start collecting the money NOW.
You see, it is still my product, even if I'm using NP schematic.
I would feel much more comfortable if I could run it from Vendors Bazaar, with everybody aware of actual boards cost and all profits donated to the forum (less my time investement).
However, I also don't feel motivated enough to do that, as long as others run similar offerings in a completely different way.
Alot of members do donate profits to the board if they end up making more out of it than originally planned.
The group buy concept is pretty simple really...... a group buy is any time that group buying power is used to save money for each individual person while no one involved gets rich from profiteering. It could be any part/s, product/s or kit/s where there is considerable interest from a number of people.
The group buy concept is pretty simple really...... a group buy is any time that group buying power is used to save money for each individual person while no one involved gets rich from profiteering. It could be any part/s, product/s or kit/s where there is considerable interest from a number of people.
If you run a groupbuy according to the normal procedure here I'm sure most would approve. Let's say you'll offer boards for 4-7 dollars each depending of type (rather small baords). This would be rather low-profit in most peoples eyes.Peter Daniel said:
peranders said:
My actual cost for A30 board was $15/board for first 50 pcs and $9ea for subsequent runs (not including handling, paypal and postage)
If I include shipping and paypal fees into the price of $20/board I'm actually loosing money on the first production run.
I get return on my time and effort investment if the orders continue beyond the initial offering.
I will never run a GB on this forum, unless it is related to an estabished product from other manufacturers.
Peter, if you do ever run a groupbuy you must charge as much as your costs are and include a reasonable profit within the groupbuy idea. I think noone of the "customers" demands charity from someone. It's not a crime to ask for a couple of beers and a pizza.
I don't understand why some have to excuse themselves, just play with open cards, that's the key thing.
I don't understand why some have to excuse themselves, just play with open cards, that's the key thing.
I like diyAudio and at the same time hate some part of diyAudio.
Nevertheless, very childish . . . from the shining cave . . .
I would write like this:
"We are not about group buys. If you come here with the intention to organise any, we really don't want you around. We rule to be in peace to discuss our ideas amoung ourselves without having to deal with any group buy."
jh6you,
What exactly is it you want to tell us? You are quoting from a different audio forum?
And then changing the wording of some other board's text?
Whatsup?
What exactly is it you want to tell us? You are quoting from a different audio forum?
And then changing the wording of some other board's text?
Whatsup?
Nothing much.
I visited another forum (I will not tell you the name 🙂) few times as a guest, and read that they were quoting diyAudio as a kind of pig, saying go to diyA . . . over there . . . diyA . . . diyA . . . with scorn . . . I really felt sick as one member of, say, diyA.
I hope that if they think they are good, they should enjoy themselves inside there, without trying to think scorn of another forum where many good members are contributing . . .
I really hope they change . . .
Regards
I visited another forum (I will not tell you the name 🙂) few times as a guest, and read that they were quoting diyAudio as a kind of pig, saying go to diyA . . . over there . . . diyA . . . diyA . . . with scorn . . . I really felt sick as one member of, say, diyA.
I hope that if they think they are good, they should enjoy themselves inside there, without trying to think scorn of another forum where many good members are contributing . . .
I really hope they change . . .
Regards
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