i Have been in Texas sometimes, but passing some days, i could understand
Better to let things be cool again.
Some excesses must be controlled, as this is not a box ring, and the complete justice is very difficult, the more the people make efforts.
Remember that Christ gone comdemned to death, and he did not spoke a word to defend himself...no chance.... already comdemned.
It is clear that we have to respect and obbey our Moderators, if they are correct or if they fail, as they are not perfect, even you are not, i am not, no one perfect...but things are clear...all the guys that go hard against friends, and against with moderators, someday will be punished...if shut the mouth and wait, can survive, if not...booommm!
I made my mistakes here, and i perceive they forgive but may be take some note...i am near to be advised related some excesses of freedom in our forum.... as i already noticed that i am near to be advised....i will be carefull and avoid make mistakes...
It is clear that offensive languages, rude languages and clear figths, with angry and passion are not allowed.
It is clear also that Moderators must be respected, if not, this will be transformed in a complete mass.... with man and woman making "those" movements in animated avatars or something alike.
Of course if i make 4 mistakes, and other made 12 mistakes..... when i make the fifth and the other make the number 13 together, in the same thread, the 13 errors guy can be punished and i can scape...beeing so rude or even more rude than the one that made so many mistakes.
All of us have our own quotes of errors allowed, it depends how many times we are agressive, bad educated, rude... and, of course, you cannot have the same value to those guys i used as example.....if weigth is the bad value... and errors counts as weigth...put the 5 weights in a weigth meter, a balance, 5 at left side, and 13 at rigth side.... wich one is worst?
My dear CarlosFm, better to stay just reading for a week or more, and avoid discussions.... i am afraid you have enougth weigth, and if not put your feet in your "brakes".... you will follow Till...i have no doubts about that...hehe...my shoes are deep over the brakes my friend....i made mine foolishes too.
regards,
Carlos
Better to let things be cool again.
Some excesses must be controlled, as this is not a box ring, and the complete justice is very difficult, the more the people make efforts.
Remember that Christ gone comdemned to death, and he did not spoke a word to defend himself...no chance.... already comdemned.
It is clear that we have to respect and obbey our Moderators, if they are correct or if they fail, as they are not perfect, even you are not, i am not, no one perfect...but things are clear...all the guys that go hard against friends, and against with moderators, someday will be punished...if shut the mouth and wait, can survive, if not...booommm!
I made my mistakes here, and i perceive they forgive but may be take some note...i am near to be advised related some excesses of freedom in our forum.... as i already noticed that i am near to be advised....i will be carefull and avoid make mistakes...
It is clear that offensive languages, rude languages and clear figths, with angry and passion are not allowed.
It is clear also that Moderators must be respected, if not, this will be transformed in a complete mass.... with man and woman making "those" movements in animated avatars or something alike.
Of course if i make 4 mistakes, and other made 12 mistakes..... when i make the fifth and the other make the number 13 together, in the same thread, the 13 errors guy can be punished and i can scape...beeing so rude or even more rude than the one that made so many mistakes.
All of us have our own quotes of errors allowed, it depends how many times we are agressive, bad educated, rude... and, of course, you cannot have the same value to those guys i used as example.....if weigth is the bad value... and errors counts as weigth...put the 5 weights in a weigth meter, a balance, 5 at left side, and 13 at rigth side.... wich one is worst?
My dear CarlosFm, better to stay just reading for a week or more, and avoid discussions.... i am afraid you have enougth weigth, and if not put your feet in your "brakes".... you will follow Till...i have no doubts about that...hehe...my shoes are deep over the brakes my friend....i made mine foolishes too.
regards,
Carlos
carlosfm said:
Carlos,
I did not intend to call you dishonest in THAT sense, I meant it in the sense of fairness. We were discussing a specific post and you changed the subject to another post which had nothing to do with the discussion we had about a specific person.
What I meant was: in all fairness don't do that.
I used a wrong word, and I apologize to you.
Jan Didden
You welcome in my heart, all rigth....no problem
It is all clear, i do not mind, as i understand a half, and i forgot the other half.
go ahead.
Carlos
It is all clear, i do not mind, as i understand a half, and i forgot the other half.
go ahead.
Carlos
Re: I think message not for me.... sorry, but
Too many Carlos-ses here! No, the message was not for you, but 'hello' to you too
Jan Didden
destroyer X said:
Too many Carlos-ses here! No, the message was not for you, but 'hello' to you too
Jan Didden
cocolino said:
I'll try to make a point of doing it as often as I can. I don't want to make it mandatory because sometimes it's self evident, sometimes an explanation will stir things up more than calm things down. But for most actions, yeah, that's a fine suggestion.
After having gone over the threads and posts that have been recently thrown in Texas a couple of times, I feel compelled to say that I do not agree with how some fellow members can get 'expelled' or sin-binned for certain things they have said while, at the same time, other fellow members can get away with almost anything. I've had my share of disagreement with both Pedja and Upupa Epops (for example) so I know how they can be difficult and aggravating at times. However, while Pedja, CarlosFM, Roibm and Till have been (rightly?) punished for spitting fire all over the bandwith, PA and Upupa Epops, who generously added oil to the flames, just walked away whistling. Where is justice in that? Moreover, Upopa Epops already has a history of deliberately flaming people, mocking them or just annoying them with his numerous off-topic contributions and too much product-pitching that he always so cleverly wraps up and serves in "my-English-is-poor" cellophane. Till is just one of the guys here who are sick and tired of Upopa Epops's arrogance and intolerance but he gets banned for saying it out loud, being labelled as a bigot, racist or whatnot.
I am very disappointed in the way the moderators have handled this thing and think that they should seriously re-think their decision-making policies and moderator-appointment/removal procedures (membership voting?), and make the whole moderating business more transparent and democratic.
Regards,
Milan
I am very disappointed in the way the moderators have handled this thing and think that they should seriously re-think their decision-making policies and moderator-appointment/removal procedures (membership voting?), and make the whole moderating business more transparent and democratic.
Regards,
Milan
Milan, thanks for your comments. You're one of the guys I really respect around here.
It's difficult to draw nice, clear lines so we do the best we can with ambiguity. The mod crew consists of a very broad selection of people from many parts of the world and with varying viewpoints and backgrounds. Decisions like SinBinning are generally ones of consensus after a lot of discussion- it's not snap or arbitrary or in the hands of one person.
It's not perfect, I'll be the first to admit, but I think the results speak for themselves: this is a pretty nice environment to hammer out technical issues with a bunch of very smart people.
It's difficult to draw nice, clear lines so we do the best we can with ambiguity. The mod crew consists of a very broad selection of people from many parts of the world and with varying viewpoints and backgrounds. Decisions like SinBinning are generally ones of consensus after a lot of discussion- it's not snap or arbitrary or in the hands of one person.
It's not perfect, I'll be the first to admit, but I think the results speak for themselves: this is a pretty nice environment to hammer out technical issues with a bunch of very smart people.
Doing your best is NICE, ...
Do it in the OPEN and in a way that everyone on this forum can see what happens and form an opinion based on facts.
IMO the moderators have to much conflicting roles,
1) they make the rules of this forum,
2) try to maintain those rules and
3) they judge in case of conflicts.
(Not to mention they join into discussions as 'normal' member)
Seems we live in the middle ages here as the moderators are (and act as) the nobility and all the others the 'lower-class' people. IMO those conflicting roles is one of the reasons that prevents this forum to become 'more transparent and democratic' (as moamp said in a previous post).
I have the following questions :
- What is your standpoint on these conflicting moderator-roles?
- is it seen as a relevant thread for the survival of this forum (if not what are they)
- allong which lines should do you think the moderator role should be changed to prevent the recent 'sin-bin' rage?
Regards Henk
Do it in the OPEN and in a way that everyone on this forum can see what happens and form an opinion based on facts.
IMO the moderators have to much conflicting roles,
1) they make the rules of this forum,
2) try to maintain those rules and
3) they judge in case of conflicts.
(Not to mention they join into discussions as 'normal' member)
Seems we live in the middle ages here as the moderators are (and act as) the nobility and all the others the 'lower-class' people. IMO those conflicting roles is one of the reasons that prevents this forum to become 'more transparent and democratic' (as moamp said in a previous post).
I have the following questions :
- What is your standpoint on these conflicting moderator-roles?
- is it seen as a relevant thread for the survival of this forum (if not what are they)
- allong which lines should do you think the moderator role should be changed to prevent the recent 'sin-bin' rage?
Regards Henk
Some pigs are more equal than other pigs.
I always dreamed about beeing a more equal pig. I want to be grilled first!
IMHO the problem is the finding of enough volunteers who are on a very mature moral level.
Although I have to agree that the recent Sinbin race is a bit too "fast". Is there a possibility to sinbin a mod?????
What are the penalties for mods who dont behave well?
Uli
I always dreamed about beeing a more equal pig. I want to be grilled first! IMHO the problem is the finding of enough volunteers who are on a very mature moral level.
Although I have to agree that the recent Sinbin race is a bit too "fast". Is there a possibility to sinbin a mod?????
What are the penalties for mods who dont behave well?
Uli
Re: Doing your best is NICE, ...
Order is created. A few are in the sinbin and are thinking about their behavior I''ll hope and maybe a few more should have been there and they are also reviewing their attitude I'll hope.
I'll hope that everone have understood that food fights aren't allowed here.
Yes.Calimero said:
Yes
Yes
This class talk, I don't know what you mean really. Democracy is not the same thing as do or say whatever pleases you.
There are no real conflict roles.
This forum will survive because 99.99% of all members have no problems with the rules or the "democracy. They talk about audio in a friendly way.
No.
Order is created. A few are in the sinbin and are thinking about their behavior I''ll hope and maybe a few more should have been there and they are also reviewing their attitude I'll hope.
I'll hope that everone have understood that food fights aren't allowed here.
Even beeing good friends, there are times that life create their own tricks for us.
Imagine that you are a farmer
Your biggest and closest friend, the best friend you had, are living in the nearest farm.... you have no fences separating those farms.
Your daugther is married with your best friend's son.
You have some fishes, your create small fishes to "inside home decoration".... those pretty small fishes people have inside home, and they are very delicated to big temperature changes, to acid or not acid water, at the end, your fishes can die with some strong rain.
Your best friend work with Plants, a long time not raining, and... desperated, one day.... he rent an airplane and use some chemical products to force some rain.... he is desperated...plants are going to die.... and the rain starts strong.... a heavy rain, full of chemical material together..... your fishes could not resist and the turn dead.
Alike that old kid's game, one at one rope side and the other into the other rope extreme, and pulling hard to see who is the strongest, the same way, life can put friends in opposite sittuations... and can broke good friendships too.
I also trust deeply in SY, i like him very much, also i appreciate Dlugos too, but have to confess more close to SY.
But someday i will make my foolishes, as i made many in this life and i am sure i will do more...... i had married two times...so, i am an reincident stupid...i can repeat foolishes with no doubts.
That day...SY will be in the other rope side.... that's life.
That's his job, his obligation... the more we can be kind and understand those things... when hitted, self defensive mechanisms put armour, spade and we start to figth with our brothers.... that's war...that's life...and this is a shame too.
Carlos
Imagine that you are a farmer
Your biggest and closest friend, the best friend you had, are living in the nearest farm.... you have no fences separating those farms.
Your daugther is married with your best friend's son.
You have some fishes, your create small fishes to "inside home decoration".... those pretty small fishes people have inside home, and they are very delicated to big temperature changes, to acid or not acid water, at the end, your fishes can die with some strong rain.
Your best friend work with Plants, a long time not raining, and... desperated, one day.... he rent an airplane and use some chemical products to force some rain.... he is desperated...plants are going to die.... and the rain starts strong.... a heavy rain, full of chemical material together..... your fishes could not resist and the turn dead.
Alike that old kid's game, one at one rope side and the other into the other rope extreme, and pulling hard to see who is the strongest, the same way, life can put friends in opposite sittuations... and can broke good friendships too.
I also trust deeply in SY, i like him very much, also i appreciate Dlugos too, but have to confess more close to SY.
But someday i will make my foolishes, as i made many in this life and i am sure i will do more...... i had married two times...so, i am an reincident stupid...i can repeat foolishes with no doubts.
That day...SY will be in the other rope side.... that's life.
That's his job, his obligation... the more we can be kind and understand those things... when hitted, self defensive mechanisms put armour, spade and we start to figth with our brothers.... that's war...that's life...and this is a shame too.
Carlos
Pigs are very social species,
and we peolple could learn a lot of them. (that is an another theme).
Uli, finding volunteers (moral or unmoral) is the starting point, more relevant is that these volunteers represent a major group of members (are nominated by them to stand up for their interests). Do you know by which members our moderators are nominated. Do the moderators know the interests of the members? If so, how do they know? Is there enough democracy here to discuss the topics that live among us.
The prompt response of Per, gives me the impression it is HIS answer, and not the opinion of the moderators (and that is what I am interested in)
Per, the middle ages were named to indicate where this forum of democratic maturity stands and that there is along way and effort to go for those that strive for democracy and transparency.
The 99.9% (as you call them) is a guess and you don’t know their standpoint because they haven’t responded. Furthermore you can’t neglect the opinions of tht 0.1%, in that way (that is unfriendly, IMO).
Henk
and we peolple could learn a lot of them. (that is an another theme).
Uli, finding volunteers (moral or unmoral) is the starting point, more relevant is that these volunteers represent a major group of members (are nominated by them to stand up for their interests). Do you know by which members our moderators are nominated. Do the moderators know the interests of the members? If so, how do they know? Is there enough democracy here to discuss the topics that live among us.
The prompt response of Per, gives me the impression it is HIS answer, and not the opinion of the moderators (and that is what I am interested in)
Per, the middle ages were named to indicate where this forum of democratic maturity stands and that there is along way and effort to go for those that strive for democracy and transparency.
The 99.9% (as you call them) is a guess and you don’t know their standpoint because they haven’t responded. Furthermore you can’t neglect the opinions of tht 0.1%, in that way (that is unfriendly, IMO).
Henk
The post was mine without discussing this with the rest of the mods but I'm pretty sure that they can agree to most of it. You can't really pay attention to point of views which are never pointed out. Of 20000 members we have trouble with max 10 (often 2-6 at the most) and we hear opinions from 5-10. Bad guys = 0.05%, Opinions 0.05%. Of course they counts but they can't set the rules. To these numbers you must also add all guests which are pretty many, 20000(?) more.
Moderators aren't picked to represent the members. They help Jason (owner of the forum) ultimately and webmaster Audiofreak to keep order at this forum, in every respect. But we sure listen. Remember Bruno which lobbied for a class D forum. He got it!
Moderators are picked by two criteria:
1 Location, we want one or two moderators in every corner of the world to cover culture and time zones (noone from Asia, Africa, South America, Middle East right now).
2 Has shown skills in behavior and technical knowledge where the behavior part is the most important.
We, the moderators, pick the candidates but anyone which feels up to the task may step forward and at this very moment this has never happened under my time as moderator but let not this fact stop you.
Moderators aren't picked to represent the members. They help Jason (owner of the forum) ultimately and webmaster Audiofreak to keep order at this forum, in every respect. But we sure listen. Remember Bruno which lobbied for a class D forum. He got it!
Moderators are picked by two criteria:
1 Location, we want one or two moderators in every corner of the world to cover culture and time zones (noone from Asia, Africa, South America, Middle East right now).
2 Has shown skills in behavior and technical knowledge where the behavior part is the most important.
We, the moderators, pick the candidates but anyone which feels up to the task may step forward and at this very moment this has never happened under my time as moderator but let not this fact stop you.
Yes, but what if we the members disagree with a moderators actions..............seems like that if you get into the club, you are suddenly above the law.
And when were we the members allowed to vote in our choice of moderators................get real. 😉
And when were we the members allowed to vote in our choice of moderators................get real. 😉
jam said:
When do I get to vote for the janitor at my local McDonalds?
Mods have been Binned in the past. It's rare, not because it's a club, but because mods are generally chosen from the group of people who aren't troublemakers. That's not a sufficient critereon, but it's a necessary one.
Falling down, Michael Douglas: I want some breakfast. - We don't serve breakfast. The clock is 11.33........The customer is always right..... but the mods has bullit proof vests.......SY said:
THEY AREN'T THE TROUBLEMAKERS!!!!!???
SY, you know that a lot of think that they are the trouble with DIY.
Go ahead.........keep thinking that 99.99% of us are happy.
It will be, when all that is left are the cabbages.
Jocko
SY, you know that a lot of think that they are the trouble with DIY.
Go ahead.........keep thinking that 99.99% of us are happy.
It will be, when all that is left are the cabbages.
Jocko
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