Midrange driver w/ good transient response?

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#21

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#22
Hi,

I´d suggest You look for the Vifa 17WN225. That driver is one of the best You could ever find for Your application. It is still one of the best measuring and sounding midrange drivers You can buy regardless of the price tag. It outperforms most other 7"-midrangers, especially those overpriced and overhyped metallic fraction.
It features very low distortion, close to perfect rolloff. This comes without the loss in detail and dynamics a lot of drivers with PP-diaphragm suffer from. Because of this You can taylor a very simple and easy crossover-design.
It is a driver with an efficiency that will fit very good to the 33F-WB.
Besides its rather a bit ´old-fashioned´ looks will mate the Seas Woofer perfectly.

just my 2 cents on it ;-)

jauu
Calvin
 
#24
The alternatives are bewildering....

That VIFA unit seems to be one of the good old ones that were still manufactured in Denmark, which makes it "politically correct! 🙂

But then again, I have some difficulty finding it so I guess it's not stocked with any vendors any more, but it might still be possible to get a nice pair second hand or someone might have some old stock.

The data and measurements sure look promising though, but will it still hold up to a newer driver like the SEAS ER 18 RNX?

The tweeter I intend to use is in deed the new SEAS DXT, and i was thinking to cross it over at around 3 khz where the waveguide is said to start becoming effective.. I would also like to keep the crossover point slightly high so as to ensure that the crossover point is well outside the time-domain frequency range.

So a midrange that transits well to the DXT at this crossover-point in terms of of-axis response would be important. Considering this, a midrange as large as 8" or even 10" might be too big?
 
#25
Yes Tinitus the Beyma is certainly a professional driver. Ma ny audiophiles tend to think that pro equipment is only about loud and there is a lot of cheap "pro units" around that are lousy. High quality professional equipment to the contrary is designed for users that work with music and their demands are just as stringent as the most serious audiophiles. This little gem actually is a beautifull hifi low/mid driver and very reasonably priced although produced in Europe with real high class finish.
 

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#28
I dont like the design with all those small neo disc magnets...from a technical wiev its tricky to get equal contact surface to the pole plates...it looks like quality, but is in reality cheapish technology

driver could still be good though 🙂 might benefit from a bit of coating 😉
Impedance looks impressive, very smooth
 
#29
Don´t have the exact price here, í´m not at work, it is in the vicinity of 70 euro in Sweden. Yes the design with neodiscs sets demands on precision, in my experience Beyma meets this challenge with very high repeatabillity, i´ve used a lot of their drivers and so far only replaced two hf drivers exposed to a clipping old Luxman amp.
 
#30
Elbert said:

The tweeter I intend to use is in deed the new SEAS DXT, and i was thinking to cross it over at around 3 khz where the waveguide is said to start becoming effective.. I would also like to keep the crossover point slightly high so as to ensure that the crossover point is well outside the time-domain frequency range.

So a midrange that transits well to the DXT at this crossover-point in terms of of-axis response would be important. Considering this, a midrange as large as 8" or even 10" might be too big?
Click to expand...

In short: yes. If you are really set on the Seas DXT, you shouldn't cross lower than 2,5-3kHz to maintain diretional control. Then an 8" becomes slightly too big, and you should look at 6" units. (Although I personally would consider a bigger waveguide on the tweeter and a lagrer mid driver. But that's only my opinion).

I have no personal experience on the Beyma or B&C units mentoned, though they look good on paper.

IMO, one of the best 6" units for your application is the Audax PR17MO. Do a forum search on that one. Lots of good info will come up. Is has been discontinued, but I think Madisound still sells them. Another good one, is the RCF L8S800.

Check out prices etc at http://www.speakerstore.nl/. They also have the Beyma 6G40ND.

Espen
 
#31
70 EUR. for the beyma 6,5" is not too bad I'd say...

And yes, I've allready bought a set of the DXT's from a Ant here on the forum, so that's settled.

DIY waveguides sure looks interresting, but i reasoned that the DXT was after all properly designed and tested as a unit by guys knowing what they did. With my (lack of) experience and no proper test equipment available, I figuerd that I'd be better of not trying to re-invent someone elses wheel... 😀

Have you tried the RCF or the Audax?

Anyway, I'll check them out..
 
#33
Yes, I have used the Audax in a 3-way system with JBL LE-120H bass and Beyma CP380 tweeter in a XT120 horn. Crossover frequencues at 400 and 2200 hz.

I have also tried them with JBL LE26 tweeters in 6" waveguides.

They sound good, and are not "difficult" drivers as regards to crossover design. The spec sheet lists them as having 100dB sensitivity. That's an excaggeration. They are more like 94-95 dB / 1W. But they are nice drivers.
 
#34
Yes, Eminence is always a good bet, in this case the Beyma is ,imo, superior. The kappa pro units from Eminence (starts at 10") is probably the best value for money obtainable today and with the present dollar level it´s a steal in europe. Elbert, mail me and i´ll arrange a test pair of Beymas as loan for You to check out.
 
#36
lousymusician said:
If 'pro' drivers are in play, you might want to look at this thread. Magnetar is using a 10 in Eminence hemp-coned driver for the same range you're looking at. Should be both efficient and dynamic. He seems pretty pleased with the results!
Click to expand...

Agreed. I remember reading that thread when it was started.. very nice indeed. That hemp guitar driver definitely has some potential. I'd love to see the effects of different phase plugs used with it, or experiment with ways to lessen that bump between 1.5-3 KHz. Could probably be very smooth for a driver of its type.

However, there's no way his Seas DXT's that he says he's already bought could match the high sensitivity of a driver like that. That's why I recommended the Alpha-6A.. much more sensitivity than that, and he'd likely be forced to pad down the mid. That, and it can work with somewhat of a highish crossover point too (ie: 3KHz, etc).

And using the Lil' Buddy as a midrange in a sealed enclosure would require quite a bit of space, too.. and even then, Qtc will still be well above 0.8. Add the 3 cubic feet it'd take just to get that big mid down to 0.9 Qtc, plus the enclosure for his woofer.. not exactly small. And I'm not so sure he's wanting to go OB, given that he already has his woofers, which are far from suitable for such a design.

Good lookin' out tho. :up:
I'm still thinkin about buying one of those sometime soon just to toy around with and see what happens.
 
#37
Hi,

the German distributor of Vifa, Mr. Lommersum still has it on his Website (www.vifa.de). Btw there is a coaxial driver too featuring the 17WN225 and the ringradiator.

Imo the new Seas drivers are too expensive for their abilities.
Too I always found it sonically superior to have a crossover with as little parts count as possible. This includes resistors to get the efficiences of the drivers even. Thats why I recommend the Vifa. If it weren´t for distribution character You wouldn´t even need a lowpass at all. A simple series inductance is all You need to get a clean perfect rolloff between 2kHz and 3.5kHz. The tweeter crossed over such its filter is of 3rd order (acoustically) matches the Vifa. At the lower end You may use a single cap or a 2nd order Filter to match the Seas-33FB.
Thats the way You put music in Your box 😉

jauu
Calvin
 
#38
..I agree. It does seem very smooth. I remember looking closely at this driver's spec page just the other day somewhere.

Oh and I just remembered.. he's going active. So much of my previous post doesn't apply. :blush:

I'll shutup now and sit back and watch for a while. Some really good interesting drivers mentioned in this thread. 🙂

edit:

Calvin said:
Btw there is a coaxial driver too featuring the 17WN225 and the ringradiator.
Click to expand...

Found some info..

http://www.vifa.de/aktuell/news.htm
http://www.vifa.de/aktuell/PRETD17CN.pdf
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/index_en.htm?/hifi/vifa_en.htm
 
#39
If the Alphas are used in an OB would it be OK to use an Alpha8A instead of an Alpha6 ? The real question here is if the Alpha8 sounds as good as the Alpha6 say above 300Hz ? Bass will be from another driver.
 
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