I'll probably be playing with swapping around a few amps and speakers in a small listening session this afternoon, including the Castles and new Alpair 7MAOPs A7.3EN, the Castles, FH3/FE126, and amps ranging from 2A3 to EL34SE, EL84 P/P and maybe even the Kingrex and/or Topping TP30
power in this group ranges from 3.5 W to 12or so - we'll see if there's a consensus from the group of 4 anticipated listeners
Let us know how it goes. I am looking at building a 3.5 W 2A3 amp. Just trying to find the right pairing between it and some Mark Audio drivers in a speaker configuration that works.
2A3 SET works quite well with the A12p, but still isn't going to give you a lot of headroom. 12 watts/ch will play to a decent level with a Castle.
jeff
2A3 SET works quite well with the A12p, but still isn't going to give you a lot of headroom. 12 watts/ch will play to a decent level with a Castle.
jeff
so, too soon for public comments yet?
even after almost 10yrs, 2A3 has still gotta be my favorite affordable tube amp, too bad about the headroom issue ( i.e. not tons of it with under 90dB sensitivity drivers in moderate to plus sized room}
wcwc: as Jeff suggests, 2A3 + A12.P could be very interesting - but I can't remember actually hearing that combo other than at Dave's rather large space
Jeff: we'll have to try that sometime soon at your place (would that be again?
)I will probably build the SET amp first and try it with my current 2way Boston Acoustics speakers which are 90 db efficient. Maybe I would go with a FAST type system or a 8" GR servo sub under mar-ken cabinet. If I pick the right crossover point I could probably use any of the MA drivers. Running a castle orientation for surrounds off my AV receiver would probably work just fine.
we'll have to try that sometime soon at your place (would that be again?
Definitely.
jeff
Quite different presentation.
My money's on the 10.2 in Pensils surpassing the Castle in terms of bass weight, extension, slam, etc - but the top-firing driver on the Castle adds a lot to air / soundstage dimension.
chris, not neccessarily...
There are some very interesting benefits to the Castle style loudspeakers. If the drivers are very closely orientated, 90° from each other, I think you'd be surprised. Basically you are tuning the two drivers to differrent frequencies within the same TL (from memory of the Castle Howards :S1; S2; etc).
Two speakers can physically move more air than 1. As long the ability exists to provide enough current to drive them in-phase and connected parallel, or series (but the series connection will create a phase error).
I guess I really should try something like the Castle style enclosures. or BD's dual micro-towers for the RS speakers, adjusted to a suitable size for whatever drivers I can use (the CHR70'sv1?, or maybe get hold of something that is cheap enough to allow experimentation).
There are some very interesting benefits to the Castle style loudspeakers. If the drivers are very closely orientated, 90° from each other, I think you'd be surprised. Basically you are tuning the two drivers to differrent frequencies within the same TL (from memory of the Castle Howards :S1; S2; etc).
Two speakers can physically move more air than 1. As long the ability exists to provide enough current to drive them in-phase and connected parallel, or series (but the series connection will create a phase error).
I guess I really should try something like the Castle style enclosures. or BD's dual micro-towers for the RS speakers, adjusted to a suitable size for whatever drivers I can use (the CHR70'sv1?, or maybe get hold of something that is cheap enough to allow experimentation).
having lived with the EL70 Castles for the better part of 2 years, I'm quite aware of the things they do very well - not the least of which is to pass the SAF - Sue Approval Factor
sorry, can't resist - of course, but when you're comparing drivers as different as the 2 in question, operating in enclosures tuned for different goals, the single larger one might still outperform multiples of the smaller
Mind you, as noted in my previous post, it's conjecture regarding the specific designs in question - I've heard the Alpair10 and 10.2 in at least 3 different enclosures, but the Pensil is not among them. As risky at it is, I'd extrapolated my experience with other drivers I have heard in the Pensil ( Alpair 7, and FF125WK)
CHRs will work in the Castle enclosure, but will require different vent tuning.
comments on your comments
chris;
regarding your first comment: the Sue Approval Factor cannot be understated. Ask any "successful" audiophile and the Significant Other's opinions regarding the sound and the aesthetics of any piece of equipment must be observed and fed correctly.
regarding your second statement: compared to a single driver of the same type, all else being equal. So perhaps a Pensil for the 10.2 vs a similarly correct enclosure for 2 10.2s in a Castle type enclosure would be more interesting and a better comparison. My comments did not take into consideration 2 different drivers.
regarding your third comment: this is pretty obvious (I think) and goes without saying.
chris;
regarding your first comment: the Sue Approval Factor cannot be understated. Ask any "successful" audiophile and the Significant Other's opinions regarding the sound and the aesthetics of any piece of equipment must be observed and fed correctly.
regarding your second statement: compared to a single driver of the same type, all else being equal. So perhaps a Pensil for the 10.2 vs a similarly correct enclosure for 2 10.2s in a Castle type enclosure would be more interesting and a better comparison. My comments did not take into consideration 2 different drivers.
regarding your third comment: this is pretty obvious (I think) and goes without saying.
Can you expand on this issue of phase error, please? I know what phase error is, but how is it related to series wiring of drivers?
BTW, someone asked earlier in the thread for thoughts about 10.2 pensils vs. CHP70.2 Castles; that's what Chris' comments are related to.
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The CHP70.2s shelved down top gives the crown to the A10.2. If it was CHP70.1 or the mythical (inevitable?) CHP70.3 (or EL70s), a much closer contest but with each having its own strengths.
We recently turned this deficiet of the CHP70.2 to an asset when we mounted ERT26 on the unused sides of the bipole microTowers (sorry no pictures yet).
dave
southernoise's query was on that exact subject - a single 10.2 vis a vis dual smaller drivers in the Castle - yes, all things being equal, in well designed and executed enclosures a pair of any driver will/should outperform a single of the same model
well you know what happens when you assume that the obvious is understood - you've been married long enough to appreciate that some things can't go without saying
Thanks for your insight. Bass weight, extension and slam are important to me so I guess this would be a no go for me. Now maybe a Tysen would be a better project.
My comment was related to the small physical offset that may be needed to mount the drivers in a Castle style enclosure. Any physical offset of the driver centres can create some phase errors. Also there is a small (as in very small) phase error as the first driver will begin to move prior to the second. This may not be of any significance, but everything adds up cumulatively.
And I do apologize to all for not picking up on the original point of a single 10.2 vis a vis dual smaller drivers in the Castle. I don't always get email updates for whatever reason (probably my ISP, which filteers out a lot of stuff without me knowing it or waiting a day or longer to allow delivery to my email account...thanks Telus)
Hello,
I received the two pairs of El70's yesterday, so its time for building enclosures.
After reading different threads on bipolair speakers it became clear to me that they
should be positioned quite a bit away from walls.
Where my speakers wil be standing is where the half changs are in the picture.
I am aware that the situation is far from ideal with an open space behind one and books behind the other speaker, but listening to the half changs and
other speakers before that has always been satisfactory.
I have a few enclosures in mind; bipole microtower, offset bipole mltl (jim
griffin's design), bipole metronome and the ml voigt.
Back of the speaker will be about 2 feet from wall and books.
Could anybody please give me some advise?
Leo
I received the two pairs of El70's yesterday, so its time for building enclosures.
After reading different threads on bipolair speakers it became clear to me that they
should be positioned quite a bit away from walls.
Where my speakers wil be standing is where the half changs are in the picture.
I am aware that the situation is far from ideal with an open space behind one and books behind the other speaker, but listening to the half changs and
other speakers before that has always been satisfactory.
I have a few enclosures in mind; bipole microtower, offset bipole mltl (jim
griffin's design), bipole metronome and the ml voigt.
Back of the speaker will be about 2 feet from wall and books.
Could anybody please give me some advise?
Leo
Hello
Decided to build the castle style microtower.
Before starting I have a few questions.
1. For the side panels I want to use solid elm. Thickness of those panels will be around 23 mm. Front, back and top will be made of 15 mm birch plywood. This will give an enclosure
which is slightly wider than deep. Will that be a problem?
2. Given the thickness of the side panels will it be necessary to brace them?
3. I cannot get the Ultratouch denim for damping here. Could I use the Bonded Acetat Fibre Wadding they sell here at Rumoh
Damping materials - RumoH - Caps, coils and speakers
Leo
Decided to build the castle style microtower.
Before starting I have a few questions.
1. For the side panels I want to use solid elm. Thickness of those panels will be around 23 mm. Front, back and top will be made of 15 mm birch plywood. This will give an enclosure
which is slightly wider than deep. Will that be a problem?
2. Given the thickness of the side panels will it be necessary to brace them?
3. I cannot get the Ultratouch denim for damping here. Could I use the Bonded Acetat Fibre Wadding they sell here at Rumoh
Damping materials - RumoH - Caps, coils and speakers
Leo
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