Hi all,
I'm going to start working on a pair of fullrange speakers, but: MDF of plywood? I can choose between any thickness from 18 to 25mm for either materials, and price is going to be comparable, but I wonder which of the two is suggested and why.
NB the build is a Pensil from frugal-phile, ca. H:100cm L:35cm W:25cm. I could imagine that MDF could be more stable, being much more heavy, but I'd like to listen to your suggestions.
Thanks all
AC
I'm going to start working on a pair of fullrange speakers, but: MDF of plywood? I can choose between any thickness from 18 to 25mm for either materials, and price is going to be comparable, but I wonder which of the two is suggested and why.
NB the build is a Pensil from frugal-phile, ca. H:100cm L:35cm W:25cm. I could imagine that MDF could be more stable, being much more heavy, but I'd like to listen to your suggestions.
Thanks all
AC
gee, it's been almost too long since this one's been hauled out 🙄
1 vote for high density plywood - i.e. Baltic / Russian etc birch
18mm should be more than adequate for any of the Pensils
while we're at it, let's talk bracing 😉
excuse the snark, but this has been argued about for at least 10yrs
1 vote for high density plywood - i.e. Baltic / Russian etc birch
18mm should be more than adequate for any of the Pensils
while we're at it, let's talk bracing 😉
excuse the snark, but this has been argued about for at least 10yrs
By high density Chris means LOTs of plies. Given the same stiffness the lower density (ie lighter) material is better.
IMO MDF is far from an ideal speaker building material (i'll get lots of argument)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/cons...ussion-what-materials-build-speakers-out.html
dave
This is a subject of much argument and passion! If you look at measurements such as those in Klang & Ton or Hobby HiFI
dämmung-und-versteifen
there is not much difference between MDF and birch plywood. Properly braced and damped both will be good. MDF is cheaper and is probably better for a painted finish. Birch Plywood is pretty "in the nude" and the sawdust smells better (smile)
dämmung-und-versteifen
there is not much difference between MDF and birch plywood. Properly braced and damped both will be good. MDF is cheaper and is probably better for a painted finish. Birch Plywood is pretty "in the nude" and the sawdust smells better (smile)
If you go MDF make sure you cut it outside, My eyes are still getting messed up from the dust and I cut it almost a year ago inside of my house!!! It's some really bad stuff.
Mdf is also much softer. That can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on how you look at it. They use the same toxic glue, but in ply it is much better contained and there is less of it.
wow I had no idea this topic was so hot 🙂
I thought MDF would have absorbed vibrations better because it's denser and extremely heavy. And yes, much easier to paint.
cheers
I thought MDF would have absorbed vibrations better because it's denser and extremely heavy. And yes, much easier to paint.
cheers
Imagine Mdf as more blubbery than ply. Like jelly versus meringue. The heavier but softer material will stop vibrating later.
Wrt to paint, I'd say Mdf need more paint because esp. the cut ends suck like a sponge. Both will need a lot of sanding and spackling to get good paint results. Usual more time for the finish than all the rest of the building process. I usually use wallpaper or fabric.
Wrt to paint, I'd say Mdf need more paint because esp. the cut ends suck like a sponge. Both will need a lot of sanding and spackling to get good paint results. Usual more time for the finish than all the rest of the building process. I usually use wallpaper or fabric.
Well said Squeak, hands down BB is better.
However, MDF/Medex is not all bad with some extra bracing.
However, MDF/Medex is not all bad with some extra bracing.
Here's another thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/109685-why-not-mdf.html
I personally prefer birch ply. Looks nicer, it's nicer to work with, and people say it sounds better.
I personally prefer birch ply. Looks nicer, it's nicer to work with, and people say it sounds better.
High quality plywood with many (13 for 3/4") thin internal plies and no internal voids is a better alternative for working in your home workshop than MDF. MDF produces a very fine sawdust that is difficult to collect effectively and requires use of a dust mask. It doesn't hold fasteners well and is susceptible to blowout when fasteners are near an edge. If you want a veneered finish it requires that as another step after assembly. These shortcomings can be managed and if you want painted cabinets are less significant, but I relegate MDF to its proper role of utilitarian shop fixtures and templates for template routing.
That paints a gloomy picture, i.e. its' not that bad to work with.
The pluses are the front edge can be routed/rounded, way less chip out, no thin veneer to worry about. Don't need super sharp tools/blades, in fact I prefer a $10 harbor freight saw blade, it makes small groves on edge for the glue to soak in.
Can buy the stuff anywhere; HD sells small pieces and/or will cut in store.
The pluses are the front edge can be routed/rounded, way less chip out, no thin veneer to worry about. Don't need super sharp tools/blades, in fact I prefer a $10 harbor freight saw blade, it makes small groves on edge for the glue to soak in.
Can buy the stuff anywhere; HD sells small pieces and/or will cut in store.
You are not going to get a dispassionate response on this, it's like talking to religious zealots, pro's and cons to both best suck it and see.
ok what about real wood then?
Pine boards for instance, or something like this: 169 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! that will not bend too much when humid.
Pine boards for instance, or something like this: 169 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! that will not bend too much when humid.
Building a 6 (or more) sided box from solid wood is not without its own issues.
Forum threads on subjects this "emotional" tend to follow a common path(ology) - to borrow from a recent post 🙂 - by the time any particular one settles down to the "OK, let's stop all this name calling and just agree to disagree, even though you're a complete idiot" phase, you could easily build a pair of of small enclosure design of both materials and listen for yourself. That's exactly what I did about 10yrs ago, and I've been using BB ever since, even though I could "recover/recycle" enough MDF from work's scrap to build 90% of any of my projects.
Forum threads on subjects this "emotional" tend to follow a common path(ology) - to borrow from a recent post 🙂 - by the time any particular one settles down to the "OK, let's stop all this name calling and just agree to disagree, even though you're a complete idiot" phase, you could easily build a pair of of small enclosure design of both materials and listen for yourself. That's exactly what I did about 10yrs ago, and I've been using BB ever since, even though I could "recover/recycle" enough MDF from work's scrap to build 90% of any of my projects.
I won't say that MDF is an outright bad choice, but with BB or other quality ply in the equation, the choice is easy for me. The nasty dust alone tips my scale, not that there is such a thing as good dust. 🙂 For people like me who can put together a fair box, but with poor finishing skills, it's also much easier to make something pretty out of BB-ply.
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