Hi i am not an expert .. but this looks impressive indeed
Thanks a lot for the link, gino
Lol.Hi Dan !
interesting test but i am not sure to have understood completely
Could you tell me some more ? Is it difficult to perform ?
1 - just put your face into the woofer hole and make all the dumbest sounds you can think of in order to excite/find internal resonances.
2 - ensure that nobody hears you doing this.
Speaker cabinet internal damping is everything.Regarding the cabinet, as i said, i am impressed by the construction also of the stock version. The internal bracing looks particularly well executed.
I will try the new and very interesting damping material not only with this speaker.
Thanks a lot again, gino
Internal reflections cause resonant peaks, and also delayed sound to retransmit through the woofer cone.
Both of these faults conspire to cause distortions, and obscuring of depth information.
Most production speakers can be much improved by optimising internal damping.
Dan.
Apologies to all, I have not made time to post pics yet...6 days per week job plus working concerts till 4.00+ am.
Hi ! ah ... now i see. I have to speak in the hole
Interesting ... i have really to try. Original test indeed
You should not say this to the Audio Note speakers designers ... they say that the cabinet must resonate with sounds
But i agree with you ... a speaker is not a musical instrument
It should add nothing to the original signal
Take your time Dan ! we will wait
Now i reread carefully the damping process description
Kind regards, gino
The point is to excite the box with vocal range sounds....ie, find the box nasties in the (critical) vocal range.Hi ! ah ... now i see. I have to speak in the hole
Interesting ... I have really to try. Original test indeed
They talk BS....lots of BS.
Yes and no....a little bit of the 'right' colouration can add excitement, for critical monitoring little or nothing should be added or omitted.
The photos will explain better, but you should get the gist from my explanations.
Just got back from hospital... was not able to get my head out of the hole for the 6" speaker...
My luck was that somebody heard me shouting....
The anaesthetic administered, proved to dampen all unwanted resonances
now I need some headroom...
The same could be said of claims of picohenry inductances in wiring being a major source of issues.
Hi i am not an expert .. but this looks impressive indeed
Thanks a lot for the link, gino
I think Jeff Bagby's Continuum looks nicer:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Specs: 65 - 22kHz +/- 2dB
(Typically +/- 1dB above 80 Hz)
Bass extension: -6dB (F6) at 57Hz,
-10dB (F10) at 45 Hz
Hi and yes it sounds very reasonable
I have to try it.
I tend to prefer a clean reproduction. A real challenge is to keep low distortion at high level with "conventional " drivers and boxes.
I heard once Klipschorns ... that sound amazed me deeply.
Powerful and clean ... very very nice.
But they need the right space, that i will never have i am afraid.
I am confined in a flat with small rooms.
The photos will explain better, but you should get the gist from my explanations.
Yes please. It will be very interesting.
So i guess this picture refers to the original ? the damping material is the original ?
the speakers are currently at my parents' home in another country
it will take some time to check them
thanks again
gino
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If you manage to show me someone who's smart enough to buy a new Ferrari for $5,000*, I don't think we're going to be criticizing his intelligence even if he does try different engines and/or transmissions
( * My attempt at approximately scaling the value of these 2031 speakers compared to say, $100,000 Magicos or whatnot, to a similar value Ferrari (if they were to exist)).I have a pair of the B2013P type of these speakers, which I bought for under $200 new. Sound is decent, but, there is room for improvement so I applaud people who are trying to "mod" them to get better sound. Even if they don't actually sound better, as long as the owner thinks they sound better, well then they've taken some decent speakers that are a great value and gotten even MORE enjoyment for their money. I can't criticize that (unless I'm just doing it for the benefit of other people reading the thread).
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critofur, I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to convey - I was referring to people who buy expensive audio gear, who then substitute the "big parts" of it - say, the drivers in the speakers - thinking that this is where the gains are. IME this is not the case, the component may not give of its best because of subtle flaws in the execution of some parts of the whole - far smarter, in my book, to fix the latter; then step back, have a listen and decide whether something more substantial has to be done ...
I have Behringers too, active, yet to be modded - but all the big, obvious, problems are because the electronics within need some sorting out - the drivers and carcase do a pretty good job, especially in comparison to some pricey contenders I was looking at, at the time.
I have Behringers too, active, yet to be modded - but all the big, obvious, problems are because the electronics within need some sorting out - the drivers and carcase do a pretty good job, especially in comparison to some pricey contenders I was looking at, at the time.
Hi jh ... sorry, I haven't played with one directly but was involved at one stage with an enthusiast who was looking for a solution, and this unit popped up as the ideal solution when I searched around a bit. He installed it to do bass management purely in the digital domain, and was happy with the result - sounded fine to me.
The two downsides appear to be sometimes flakey connectors inside - perhaps this has improved of late - and that the analogue areas can be improved, if you want to use those. There is a ton of stuff around about doing the latter, including this piece by our own Jan Didden, http://www.linearaudio.nl/linearaudio.nl/images/pdf/dcx%20passive%20article.pdf.
This is certainly the sort of unit I would buy to play around with, to try out ideas - the value for money equation of it is truly excellent - I would do the same sort of things with it that I have mentioned so many times, like improving the power supply areas, and making certain that it didn't inject any interference artifacts into the rest of the system - plus, checking out what other people experiences have been, there are always gems of useful info to be found!
The two downsides appear to be sometimes flakey connectors inside - perhaps this has improved of late - and that the analogue areas can be improved, if you want to use those. There is a ton of stuff around about doing the latter, including this piece by our own Jan Didden, http://www.linearaudio.nl/linearaudio.nl/images/pdf/dcx%20passive%20article.pdf.
This is certainly the sort of unit I would buy to play around with, to try out ideas - the value for money equation of it is truly excellent - I would do the same sort of things with it that I have mentioned so many times, like improving the power supply areas, and making certain that it didn't inject any interference artifacts into the rest of the system - plus, checking out what other people experiences have been, there are always gems of useful info to be found!
IMHO the DCX2496 is outdated, of poor design, hard to handle due to it's high output level, it has no volume control, ... And for 540 whiplashes you can get much, much more than that:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/215379-dsp-xover-project-part-2-a.html
WAF-Audio
I'm playing with it every day and it evidentially beats my heavily tweaked DCX hands down in any respect.
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Hi i did not know that Behringer is to audio what Ferrari is to car manufacturing
Are Behringer products really that good ???
I am interested because i have something here myself.
For me the nicest part of these speakers are the internal amps and the cabinet
I have them ... but i did not notice the quality of the inside bracing for instance
The drivers instead cannot be special ... it would be a miracle given their cost.
I read that the amps have some cheap parts that can develop some issues in the long term (like small caps in the power supply i think ... the advice was to replace them for something more robust or even take them out. They are bypassing bridge diodes i think).
But i am more than sure that these little monitors with some attention in the cabinet damping, revised amps and better drivers can please also pros.
I am sure of that.
In the end they take some ideas from a very similar old model from a famous brand ... if you know what i mean
Actually the look is practically identical
Kind regards, gino
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The Behringers are no Ferrari's, that's absolutely true. The units are not first class either, that's a fact too.
BUT:
The electronics seem quite OK to me and the lack of damping inside the cabinets is easily fixed. Adding enough damping to the Behringers removes a lot (most) of the muddy sound improving reproduction of voices and soundstage dramatically.
Adding two little pieces of damping material to my B2030A's resulted in a land-slide change.
So, besides the units are not first class, their qualities are not fully exploited by the manufacturer... not by far!
Further mod's to my B2030A's : some extra smoothing caps (2x 1500uf) in the power supply for a little more punch, bridged by a small MKP (3 to 5uF) for more subtle highs.. Did not change wiring...
BUT:
The electronics seem quite OK to me and the lack of damping inside the cabinets is easily fixed. Adding enough damping to the Behringers removes a lot (most) of the muddy sound improving reproduction of voices and soundstage dramatically.
Adding two little pieces of damping material to my B2030A's resulted in a land-slide change.
So, besides the units are not first class, their qualities are not fully exploited by the manufacturer... not by far!
Further mod's to my B2030A's : some extra smoothing caps (2x 1500uf) in the power supply for a little more punch, bridged by a small MKP (3 to 5uF) for more subtle highs.. Did not change wiring...
I hesitate to steer this thread back on topic, but have any B2031A owners considered changing these to sealed-box configuration?
I've done this to mine (also with a modification to the IC10A circuit) and iMHO this yields a nice improvement. The poor bass response and noisy ports are eliminated and a better balance between top and bottom achieved.
You might also consider adjusting VR3.
Cheers,
Dave.
I've done this to mine (also with a modification to the IC10A circuit) and iMHO this yields a nice improvement. The poor bass response and noisy ports are eliminated and a better balance between top and bottom achieved.
You might also consider adjusting VR3.
Cheers,
Dave.
gino, you misunderstood my analogy - I was trying to emphasise that people seem to buy audio equipment, sometimes quite pricey, of any part of the chain, from any manufacturer, and when it doesn't quite perform as well as they hoped that they then see the "problem" as being the big, obvious parts of the gear, the things which one can get a handle on, that they see other people playing with - but quite often these are the parts which are key to the quality that attracted you to that item in the first place. IME it's all about the "devil's in the details" things, the less obvious stuff, which have to be sorted for the best to be heard.
Of course Behringer is not that special, but it is excellent value for money - the unit I bought easily beat every other, famous name active monitor I heard on the day, costing up to five times the money.
And, for me, the weaknesses are in the electronics, my ears can easily hear this misbehaving when a bit of grunt is called for - they will get fixed up, and if there are still issues to do with the carcase, etc, then those will then be addressed.
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